Muslims/Sikhs

Mujja · 18 Apr 2003 at 22:28

Sorry for the delay in responding, just finsihed watching Signs. What a waste of time

anyway, the question was why do muslims not eat pork. I've been asked this so many times and 'for me' this is why.

i used to be a very religious muslim. now i don't really belive anything. so my mates ask, "if your not a muslim anymore then whats stopping you tuckin into this pork pie".

OK, we were young we were all told pigs were unclean and all this stuff about meat eaters etc. And most importantly we were never to eat a pig.

Now, if you migrated to a far eastern country where dog eating is common you probably would find it digusting even sickening at first. But after a few months you'll be able to sit at the same table with someone eating a dog.

It's not that you've been told a dog is unclean or a meat eater, it's the part you've been told about dogs aren't eaten.

That's the same for me. I think you'll know what I mean.

silverpaw · 18 Apr 2003 at 22:31

Suicide bombings have little to do with belief imo; it's all to do with religion being used as a means of controlling people lacking direction in life or education. That it's almost exclusively a muslim past time is neither here nor there.

I'd be interested to know why such restrictions are placed on women under the name of Islam; why must they be covered head to toe? why can't they work or seek education in many Islamic states?

Ironic really that pigs are extremely clean animals...

Ex-RoNiN · 18 Apr 2003 at 22:32

Originally posted by silverpaw

I'd be interested to know why such restrictions are placed on women under the name of Islam; why must they be covered head to toe? why can't they work or seek education in many Islamic states?

AFAIK its got nothing to do with religion, but with the cultural ideals of those people.

Don't forget, there are no "muslim" people. There's arab people, afghani people etc. that have adopted muslim religion and possibly interpret it differently and try and make it work with their different culture.

Mujja · 18 Apr 2003 at 22:32

Originally posted by silverpaw
I'd be interested to know why such restrictions are placed on women under the name of Islam; why must they be covered head to toe? why can't they work or seek education in many Islamic states?

Women are allowed to seek education. Islam says everyone must seek education, not just men. The mosques and schools in 'islamic' countries are full of girls.

Women are only covered to protect themselves from the staring eys of men. Those of you who have been to these 'islamic' countries will know what I'm talking about. Most of the women choose to remain covered out of their own will. Even in Afghanistan where the Taliban were 'forcing' women to cover up, many still choose to remain covered. It's a lot more to do with society, most muslim girls here don't cover up.

Didn't want to bring the Taliban into it again. But before the Taliban there was no law and order in Afghanistan for years. Women were removed from the public for their own protection because there were too many rapes, kidnappings etc. Think of it like a curfew for women for their own protection.

It's mostly just western media/propoganda.

Morte · 18 Apr 2003 at 22:37

Is there a difference between a Muslim and a Moslem, or is it just the spelling?

modD · 18 Apr 2003 at 22:38

Originally posted by Morte
Is there a difference between a Muslim and a Moslem, or is it just the spelling?

just the spelling, to give it an American accent

Mujja · 18 Apr 2003 at 22:48

Originally posted by silverpaw
Ironic really that pigs are extremely clean animals...

I saw a docu once about how the pigs are the smartest of the farm yard animals. (don't have to be too smart to be smarter than a chicken

)

They said the pigs were only dirty and smelly because of the conditions they were kept in. If they had the chance they would be running around free and keeping clean.

Maybe the "dirty, unclean" bit has just been added by our parents to convince us even more

asim · 18 Apr 2003 at 22:57

We just aint suppose to eat pig. I dont question is because i know its the right thing to do.

Its like saying well maybe islam is wrong just as people say christianity or judaism, or buddhism and all the rest of it is wrong. You try to figure out which religion to follow. I do it without question because i know its right. The proof is in the Quraan.

Oh yea a little education from me.

Why are there soo many religions? Reason because people kept forgetting the words of God and his teachings. He had to send more prophets to tell the world about his words and teachings and so as people were doing more things wrong they were put into the quraan. For instance drinking wine is allowed in christianity i believe. Yet it is forbidden in islam because God chose to take it away from people.

Religions are like chapters in a bigger book. To get to the end you must read through the chapters.
Islam is the final religion in my opinion.

ironman · 18 Apr 2003 at 22:58

Im a sikh, as for your question. Hair is seen as a gift from god and to cut it is frowned upon. I havent cut my hair ever and I intend to keep it that way. Its also respectful to cover your head when entering the gurdwara(sikh place of worship). As for outside the gurdwara my head is covered anyway by either a turban or a patka (bandana) on the more recreational events.

There are the more unorthodox sikhs who have cut hair but thats more to do with the westernising of the community and they have become more distant to religion which is fair enough, its their choice not mine.

Ill try my best to answer any questions you throw at me, and if jazz see's this thread im sure he will lend a hand

As for peoples views on religion, the way I see it and have posted this before, religion is something that people mainly grow up with and I think parents should be a lot more respectful of their childrens decision to stop following a religion. And those who are not religious should be left alone and their views respected, religion is something you should find on your own and not hear from a "salesman".

Jono · 18 Apr 2003 at 23:00

The reason I don't eat dogs is because they're generally kept as pets, and loved like a member of the family, which I guess they are.
I don't keep pigs, sheep, cows etc so I eat them. IF I did have a pet pig/sheep then I don't think I'd want to eat it.

Do far eastern countries tend not to keep dogs/cats as pets, or do they just eat them anyway? There can't be THAT much meat on them, surely...unless you're talking about a mastiff or something

Ignorance is a "bliss" I no longer wish to have. Tell us more

Jono · 18 Apr 2003 at 23:02

Guardas, forgive my ignorance, but are you allowed to wash your hair/turban? And does the turban have to be tied back on each time, or once in place can it be lifted off like a hat? (dumb question I know)

asim · 18 Apr 2003 at 23:03

Cant keep a dog if your muslim. And i cant remember why.

Someone wanna help out with that one?

Bod · 18 Apr 2003 at 23:06

Well my views on this / these religions have changed. More notably since a couple of weeks ago. We (the Bus) were outside the Jinnah Day Centre, in Bury for the day a few weeks ago.

Not only were we looked after brilliantly (some venues, let us plug in and then just shut the door on us).

At lunchtime, all of us were invited inside and waited on and fed.

Some sort of lamb curry I believe, with naan, and a glass of water. Fantastic food, I have never tasted anything so nice.

For dessert, Im not sure what it was, but it looked like coleslaw, yet tasted like semolina/rice pudding. I was a bit dubious at first (didnt know what to expect), but I just thought to myself "You softie, grab the spoon and dig in". And it was really nice.

After I had stuffed myself silly on the food, I was then offered more. Waited on hand and foot.

The people there were really nice, and I learnt a few things too.

Most notably what "Ablution" is. When I was a bus driver, I used to see drivers washing their hands / face etc at the sink, and just thought they were being really clean. It seems its part of their religion, and the process has to follow a certain order.

I must say, I am enlightened.

What I did find really profound though, was that we were smack bang in the middle of a large asian community. Some would say it was a case of "Spot the white man", and it really was. But there was one character there, a 70 odd yr old (white) man, spoke with a real northern / lancastrian accent.

And everybody in the centre knew him. He was a regular there. And they all got on superbly.

A fantastic day was had by me anyway.

Gilly · 18 Apr 2003 at 23:06

Originally posted by asim
Cant keep a dog if your muslim. And i cant remember why.

A dog is also a filthy animal, but it has character.

So by that rationale if a pig had character he would cease to be a filthy animal

MindYerBeak · 18 Apr 2003 at 23:07

The Koreans eat dogs. They aren't considered to be edible unless they're hung alive upside down for several hours and then drained of their blood by cutting their throats. Apparently it makes the meat more tender.

Mujja · 18 Apr 2003 at 23:08

Originally posted by gurdas
I think parents should be a lot more respectful of their childrens decision to stop following a religion

My parents have never forced it on me. But to know the dissapointment your parents, family, friends will feel if you gave up religion makes you keep up with it.

So you move away like I did and keep it up when you go back for a weekend.

Eventually your mates and family members find out about you sinful ways. And you still hide it from your parents. But they already know.

asim · 18 Apr 2003 at 23:11

Originally posted by Mujja
My parents have never forced it on me. But to know the dissapointment your parents, family, friends will feel if you gave up religion makes you keep up with it.

So you move away like I did and keep it up when you go back for a weekend.

Eventually your mates and family members find out about you sinful ways. And you still hide it from your parents. But they already know.

Sound like my cousin who lives down in london

Mujja · 18 Apr 2003 at 23:17

Originally posted by Jono
The reason I don't eat dogs is because they're generally kept as pets, and loved like a member of the family, which I guess they are.

That's exactly what I was getting at.

You have your very own strong reasons why you won't eat a dog. And in the same way I have my own reasons.

Yours are for love of your pet, and mine are

Mujja · 18 Apr 2003 at 23:18

Originally posted by asim
Sound like my cousin who lives down in london

you found me :eek:

ssshhh, don't tell anyone where I am.

ironman · 18 Apr 2003 at 23:18

Originally posted by Jono
Guardas, forgive my ignorance, but are you allowed to wash your hair/turban? And does the turban have to be tied back on each time, or once in place can it be lifted off like a hat? (dumb question I know)

Yes your allowed to wash it, a lot of sikh scriptures talk about cleanliness being an important factor. For example one of the 5 K's is a Kanga (comb) and the moral behind that is to keep your mind neat and tidy aswell as the practical reasons like keeping yourself presentable and hygienic.

As for the turban, it much depends on where you live. Its much evolved into a fashion, for example there are two distinct styles of turbans that sikhs wear, the main styles are Indian and Kenyan. Dont ask me why! They are tied differently, Indian turban is more traditional whereas Kenyan IMO looks a lot smarter and is more pratical in terms of tying. My father was born in Kenya and most of his family moved to Kenya from India so I have adopted the Kenyan style and I know a lot of people who have no link to Kenya whatsoever who tie it like that because they found it visually appealing!
Just a bit of information, going back to your original question, the way the Indian turban is tied, its very common for you to just take it off and it will remain its shape for you to just put back on with a bit of tidying up of hair underneath, one of my uncles does it like this, lazy *******

Whereas the style I were it would be almost impossible to just put back on like a hat, so tying back on is the only solution. Plus it only takes 5 minutes so there is no rush

Also not only Sikhs where turbans, a lot of people in Arab countries where turbans who are not Sikhs, Arab people wore turbans before Sikhism even existed. a lot of Sikhs tie their turbans in a round fashion (pics later) which I think is adopted from Arab style.

Generally you can tell the difference between a Sikh man/woman(yes some do) who wears a turban and an arab who wears a turban.

Pics coming in a minute.

here is a traditional sikh indian style turban

Here is the "round" sikh indian style turban

I cant find a kenyan style yet, keep an eye on this space.