Muslims/Sikhs

[skyman]

Originally posted by asim
Like i said the bible has been changed over and over and its not because they thought it was wrong or anything like that. It just happened everytime they rewrote the book as another copy something was changed. Cant expect to get it all right. Could be the translation. But it happened. Dont take my work for it.

As for the jesus look a like. Were talking about the endless powers of God here. Nowadays you dont think miracles and this and that can happen. No magic and all that.
Back then it happened. In the Quraan you can read some of the strange and amazing things that happened. That will happen. Or you can see other books for different stories.

I know what i know. And all i know is that Jesus is not the one who was stuck up on the cross. I dont like to get into a mass argument cause its gonna require looking up tons and tons of books for the quotes and everything.
Im telling you what i know but you dont have to believe it. This thread is all about religion yet its not about converting someone or making them think differently. Its just people telling each other what they know.
In the end each person may consider themselves to be right.

Believe what you want

But the Bible hasn't been changed over and over, that is the point. I would be extremly interrested to hear any more information that you have on the subject as I have never heard of this idea before. This thread is about educating others about specific beliefs and I would be extremly interrested to hear yours . Of course God has the power but what would be the point? I cannot see where a switch could physically happen, Jesus as a physical person is prophecying the near future not long before his death (Who would betray him, Peters denail both spring to mind.) if he where just a phrophet what is the point of swapping him for another prophet who can do the same job as Jesus. It just makes no sense.

 

[Yas786]

Originally posted by skyman
But the Bible hasn't been changed over and over, that is the point. I would be extremly interrested to hear any more information that you have on the subject as I have never heard of this idea before. This thread is about educating others about specific beliefs and I would be extremly interrested to hear yours . Of course God has the power but what would be the point? I cannot see where a switch could physically happen, Jesus as a physical person is prophecying the near future not long before his death (Who would betray him, Peters denail both spring to mind.) if he where just a phrophet what is the point of swapping him for another prophet who can do the same job as Jesus. It just makes no sense.

it wouldnt make much sense to u m8 cos liek its been said everyone believes in something different....talk to a hindhu or a sikh and u will find it hard to believe wot they say...just like wot asim is saying...its hard to believe etc...not having a dig at u cos of ur beliefs etc...

As for God etc...there are some things that cannot and will not be explained..we just take it as it is...no ifs ands or buts about it sorry to say...god does work in mysterious ways...there are somethings that i tend to say..wow did that really happen...so its a hard one to figure out...

at end of day everyone has their ownbeliefs in wot is right and wot is wrong etc...wot causes most problems is when people become defensive about their beliefs...or try to ram it down ones throat etc...

 

[asim]

I dont express my believes about many topics because of the disagreeing between people about it. Everyone thinks they are right so i try stay out the argument as i say what i have to and leave it.

Ive said this earlier in the thread. Im muslim and i believe in everything that goes along with being a muslim. Yet that doesnt mean you stop at Islam. To understand Islam you must understand where it came from and what the religions before it were. Why this is the final religion, why the other ones were there. What similarities there are. And what changed.

The bible changed. Now thats what im saying yet its not something people with agree with. They will say well u havent seen every copy of the bible in existance. I dont have to. This is what i've been told and this is what i've read in books.

Jesus was a prophet, i believe his followers knew this and had it written down. Over time things got changed, altered, misunderstood, misread, whatever. I mean what more can i put into it.
It only causes more arguments to come about. And it seperates people more to when talking about certain aspects about religion.

 

[astralcars]

Originally posted by asim
Jesus was a prophet, i believe his followers knew this and had it written down. Over time things got changed, altered, misunderstood, misread, whatever. I mean what more can i put into it.
It only causes more arguments to come about. And it seperates people more to when talking about certain aspects about religion.

To what extent has it changed though? Do the changes actually detract from its central message? That is what really matters. I have no doubt that the bible has been changed/altered with time, but that doesn't make it any less valid than any other holy book.

A good site about the bible & the way in which it has changed though time is this:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/biblical-corruption.htm
Very long though.

I don't think anyone is trying to convet anyone else; Just trying to learn a bit more about other viewpoints

 

[Yas786]

Originally posted by asim
I dont express my believes about many topics because of the disagreeing between people about it. Everyone thinks they are right so i try stay out the argument as i say what i have to and leave it.

Ive said this earlier in the thread. Im muslim and i believe in everything that goes along with being a muslim. Yet that doesnt mean you stop at Islam. To understand Islam you must understand where it came from and what the religions before it were. Why this is the final religion, why the other ones were there. What similarities there are. And what changed.

The bible changed. Now thats what im saying yet its not something people with agree with. They will say well u havent seen every copy of the bible in existance. I dont have to. This is what i've been told and this is what i've read in books.

Jesus was a prophet, i believe his followers knew this and had it written down. Over time things got changed, altered, misunderstood, misread, whatever. I mean what more can i put into it.
It only causes more arguments to come about. And it seperates people more to when talking about certain aspects about religion.

well said asim m8...im like u..will never ever disagree with wot my religion says or tells me to do...to me its the final word andi try my best to live my life by it altho it is hard in this day and age...

but ur right on the arguement bit..it can only cause more aggro...to me everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and religion..doesnt bother me in the slightest..as long as they do not try to change my beliefs etc...

 

[asim]

Originally posted by astralcars
To what extent has it changed though? Do the changes actually detract from its central message? That is what really matters. I have no doubt that the bible has been changed/altered with time, but that doesn't make it any less valid than any other holy book.

A good site about the bible & the way in which it has changed though time is this:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/biblical-corruption.htm
Very long though.

I don't think anyone is trying to convet anyone else; Just trying to learn a bit more about other viewpoints

I do not know fully how much of the bible has been changed. I know some things have been left out and some have been changed to the extent that now people misunderstand. Such as jesus being God, or the son of God.

Thats probably a big change yet many dont notice. Why did i notice that because when i was in primary i hear people talkin about how he's the son of God. then some years later they say he is God. I dont know what changed or why things changed.

If you want to learn more your gonna have to go to someone with much more experience. The bulk of what i learned was from family, and teachers at mosque. Then i did the research on my own to find out more things.

 

[BigWillyJohnson]

About keeping dogs. In Islam it is permissable to keep a dog for farming (ie: protecting the animals) and also as a guard dog (although this has been disagreed with, generaly it is thought to be allowed). However the dog must not be allowed to enter the person's house nor go near dishes or cups etc. This is because of the Hadith (saying of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) which says the Angels do not enter a house which has a dog or images in it).

Also, concerning the Holy Qu'raan. It is the word of Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) and is not a 'story' or a 'prophecy' but a message to mankind. It was not written by Muhammad (peace be upon him) as he was unable to write (illiterate) but was bought down to him by the Angel Jibreel (peace be upon him) and then Muhammad (peace be upon him) commanded scribes to write it. He also knew it by heart, as too did a great many others, as it was a tradition to revise the Holy Qu'raan.

Just thought I'd clear that up

 

[Christo]

this is a fasinating thread - am still reading this but if it doesnt make it to the archive it would be a crime

 

[modD]

I'd like to know something about atheists. Do you still follow the traditional Christian methods on occasions such as marriages, funerals, etc?

I'd also like to hear more about Bhuddism, i know it's not a religion, but the aspects of harmony with everything interests me.

 

[Yas786]

Originally posted by mrk
Also there is the major bummer no sex before marraige thing which not many parents tell you about but society makes it obvious. I can understand why sometimes but then it just beats the fun out of life as a youth I guess :|

lol... ..have to admit m8 that did make me laugh...

i suppose when i was young i felt the same...and yes like most young adults i gave into temptation and had sex before marriage... ...dont get me wrong i dont regret it even tho it was against our beliefs at the time....but living in a western world its hard not to fall into these temptations of sin...lol

but like i said i have learned thru the error of my ways and because of my faith it has made me a much more mature person in the way i think and do things now...

 

[KPeh]

Originally posted by modD
I'd like to know something about atheists. Do you still follow the traditional Christian methods on occasions such as marriages, funerals, etc?

You're asking it as if atheists were a religion styled group with 'set practises'..

I guess some atheists may have a 'christian style' marriage etc, but only as a country tradition, or due to respect for their partner's beliefs..

 

[modD]

Originally posted by KPeh
You're asking it as if atheists were a religion styled group with 'set practises'..

I guess some atheists may have a 'christian style' marriage etc, but only as a country tradition, or due to respect for their partner's beliefs..

sorry, was quite blunt with my question.
let me rephrase my question as 'atheists who live in a christian-based environment, like here in england'.

 

[Bod]

Originally posted by Chrisp7
this is a fasinating thread - am still reading this but if it doesnt make it to the archive it would be a crime

It will sah, dont worry.

 

[Mujja]

Originally posted by modD
I'd like to know something about atheists. Do you still follow the traditional Christian methods on occasions such as marriages, funerals, etc?

I'd also like to hear more about Bhuddism, i know it's not a religion, but the aspects of harmony with everything interests me.

I guess I consider myself an atheist. Am 32 now. Was as above average muslim until about 22, then started to drift away.

As for following religious traditions, yes I still do follow them. But that's mainly because with things like weddings and funerals family and friends are involved. And they still have their religion.

I'm probably the only one from all the muslim friends I have who has become and atheist. Almost all my muslim friends have become more religious over the years.

 

[asim]

I dont understand how u can stray from Islam. I was born into it and i believe in Islam and everything about it. I wouldnt stray because i know of the consequences. Heck i know what happens if u do something wrong. Hell is a place people cant even imagine.

Following Islam does mean fearing God just a little bit. Because you know what he can do if you are not a true believer.

Scary stuff.

 

[Mujja]

asim,

I've strayed over the years for various reasons.

I was brought up in a smaller muslim community in Bristol. We didn't have Imam's born and educated in the UK. Our Imam's were from Pak/India who taught us their verison of Islam. It might work in Pak/India but not here.

Islam is a guide to a way of life, not just a religion. It has to be interperated and adapted to the environment you live in.

But it wasn't the way I was taught when I was young. My faith actually grew stronger after I got out of the madrasas (religious schools).

What made me question religion, not just Islam but all religions was life at Uni. At uni I made friends with people from all religions and backgrounds. Each of us belived our religion was the right one and the other was just wasting his time.

That's what made me think. If there was a god then why does he let these non-muslims waste all their life praying to a god that doesn't exist. And how do I know that I'm not praying to the wrong god. We used to have debates for hours about whose religion was the true one. Each one of us believed just as much as the other our religion was the true one.

So while at uni I lost my faith a little. Later it was seeing all the poverty, famine and wars happening all around the world. Not just now but for hundreds of years that made me think how can god be so cruel to let all this carry on right under his nose.

I'm not blaming religion for wars, but leaders have used religion for years to get support for and start wars. If there was only one religion then most of this could be avoided.

If we really are gods creation then surely he can see the suffering he has caused to millions by giving them different races, colours, beliefs etc.

Why all the big mystery. If he was to reveal himself tomorrow then most of the worlds suffering could be stopped.

 

[NickK]

Originally posted by modD
cause they're taking 'JIHAD' literally.

jihad actually means fighting to make yourself better. if you're jobless, and try as you can to find a job to support yourself and the family then that's jihad too. it doesn't mean killing people who doesn't believe in your faith.

i'm also a muslim in a foreign land...

Wise word spoken.

I have to say I'm rather against religion - not for the beliefs, they're not in question, but rather how people manipulate with the use of religion.

Hence I find it rather distasteful sometimes that other's don't take time to understand another person. Some may think that's a load of old nonsense but I personally think that they're too lazy to sit up, talk to people then shutup and listen to them.

I'm "C of E" but don't really aspire to anything I've seen or experienced from the christian religion.

Personally I find just doing my own thing, be nice but not be taken for a ride and everyone's happy

 

[JayDeee007]

Originally posted by The_Spawn
well said asim m8...im like u..will never ever disagree with wot my religion says or tells me to do...to me its the final word andi try my best to live my life by it altho it is hard in this day and age...

but ur right on the arguement bit..it can only cause more aggro...to me everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and religion..doesnt bother me in the slightest..as long as they do not try to change my beliefs etc...

one word stands out in the above quote..........Arguement........

interpretation / translation etc etc etc........can change many things in holy books/opinions etc etc etc ......... religion is faith in something an individual deems to be 'right'

Isnt that what matters?


J

 

[Yas786]

its not a case of being a little bit scared of God Asim....i am scared witless come the day of judgement myself....that is why i am perparing for life after this...this is wot islam teaches muslims..that in todays life u live according to the islamic way so that come the day of judgement u are prepared...
yes when i was young i was a right litle rebel...but isnt everyone at one point or another???....


as for straying from islam... ..sorry i wouldnt even consider it for a second..i love my religion too much...in fact so much so that if someone put a gun to my head and said renounce ur religion...id just tell them to shoot me...lol..id rather die than renounce my religion...its just not possible even tho i wouldnt call myself a true proper muslim by any means....

mujja ur question on why god does not reveal himself...sometimes i wonder that...but the underlying fact is that we are gods creation and our life on this earth is a test...again going back to my first point that we are here to prepare for the next life etc...but as i understand it....the life we live is a test of our willpower etc....and we do have a choice...whether we choose to follow it is up to us...

 

[Mujja]

The_Spawn, if life is a test its not a fair one.

Did we have any choice in taking the test? So gods trying to seperate the good apples from the bad ones. And only the good ones get into heaven.

So god created us and now were being tested by quality control like on a production line.

God could have made us all perfect if he wanted to, so why didn't he. Isn't our fate already supposed to be decided? So what's the pont in taking the test if it's already been decided we are going to fail.

In a real test everyone is given the same questions and same conditions to take them in. In real life everyone has unique experiences. Some of us live shorter and die young, we never had the time to pass. Other live for years and have enough time to learn and pass.

But the main thing is why such a long test that has been going on for centuries. If god knows what each individual is doing and thinking at all times he could give us our results now.