Death Of A President

Soldato
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Visage, please stop wasting my time with the now tedious 'illegal war rhetoric', the 'leagilty' of the Iraq war is under UN construct is ambiguous due to the ambiguity afforded within the previous resoution. Also, I do not believe that the government can be considered an 'organised group', move traditionally they are considered to be a government of a country.
 
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cleanbluesky said:
Visage, please stop wasting my time with the now tedious 'illegal war rhetoric', the 'leagilty' of the Iraq war is under UN construct is ambiguous due to the ambiguity afforded within the previous resoution. Also, I do not believe that the government can be considered an 'organised group', move traditionally they are considered to be a government of a country.
There was no ambiguity in the first resolution - Any post factum legal justification took the form of creating ambiguity, by essentially saying "If the first resolution allowed, would the war be legal".

As it happened, neither was case was true.
 
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Borris said:
There was no ambiguity in the first resolution - Any post factum legal justification took the form of creating ambiguity, by essentially saying "If the first resolution allowed, would the war be legal".

As it happened, neither was case was true.

Stop wasting CBS's time. He's made up his mind, and there's nothing you can do with your 'facts' and 'logic' to change it, dagnammit.

The mans got better things to do with his time than be proven wrong - cant you see?
 

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It hasn't been aired yet so until we have all watched none of us can really comment on the actual content of the programme.

Having said that, the idea of the programme itself is not going to give anyone any ideas about killing bush. I suspect he is a big target for a lot of terrorist cells already and are not going to take inspiration from a channel 4 spoof documentary / dramatisation :rolleyes:

I think it will be a very interesting 'what if' scenario which would explore what would happen in the aftermath of such an attack. It really is no different to any other piece of fictionalised film making and the fact it is causing such a fuss in the media and on here is rather quite amusing.

There wasn't outrage at the various depictions of terror attacks in the 5 seasons of '24' for example which really might give some ideas of ingenious plots etc so why the hoohaa now?
 
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Borris said:
There was no ambiguity in the first resolution - Any post factum legal justification took the form of creating ambiguity, by essentially saying "If the first resolution allowed, would the war be legal".

As it happened, neither was case was true.

This is opinion, and again goes to demonstrate how ambiguous the case of 'legailty' regarding the war. Also, what value is there to describing something as 'illegal' if there is nothing to enforce any 'justice' and no perscribed punishment for that illegality, as well as the fact that most significant contributing countries who compose the UN refusing to comment or recognise the 'illegality' of said war...

Therefore you will forgive me if I continue to diplomatically describe the case for legality or illegality of the war as 'ambiguous'
 

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cleanbluesky said:
1) It helps legitimise the left-wing anti-war construction that Bush would be a legitimate military target for an Islamic extremist, which in turn legitimises the construction of Islamic Nationalism

How does it? Bush IS a target, legitimate or not for any terrorist group. Every national leader is for their respective dissident / terror groups and just because Bush is more high profile than most doesn't change that fact.
cleanbluesky said:
2) Shows a deep disrespect for the leader of one of one of the most significant countries in the Western world. You wouldn't see an Iranian documentary of their president being killed, if only because pride is more endemic.
This is what is called freedom of speech and thought. Nothing wrong with that. Whether you like / agree with bush or not you should be able to provoke discussion and thought on a wide range of issues.
cleanbluesky said:
3) Chooses a very perculiar way to 'examine' the war on terror
[/QUOTE]
Why? Its forward looking, examining what is a very real possibility and one in which I'm sure the US security services have been on high alert and many plans in place for.
 
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cleanbluesky said:
Pikcing up an AK47 does not mean you represent anything, nor does it automatically make you a soldier.

If there is a 'war on terror' and the person picking up the AK47 becomes a 'terrorist', could it be safe to say he is a part of a group on whom war has been declared, and could be considered a 'soldier'?

I find trouble following these threads. Simple words which are usually really easy to define become grey and ambiguous in debate.
 
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Roughneck said:
Damn you got me all excited I thought GW Bush had died would have made my weekend...

Unfortunatly that would make him a martyr(sp?) and the last think most people want is that. He needs to be ruined and fade away into obscurity so in the future he is never remembered. Same with Bliar.
 
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cleanbluesky said:
This is opinion, and again goes to demonstrate how ambiguous the case of 'legailty' regarding the war. Also, what value is there to describing something as 'illegal' if there is nothing to enforce any 'justice' and no perscribed punishment for that illegality, as well as the fact that most significant contributing countries who compose the UN refusing to comment or recognise the 'illegality' of said war...

Therefore you will forgive me if I continue to diplomatically describe the case for legality or illegality of the war as 'ambiguous'
The legality is within the framework of international convention and treaty, to which the US and UK have, historically, been strong subscribers.

It is the framework that supports and protects fair international trade agreements, the framework that guards against unfettered acts of aggression, and the framework that protects the rights of individuals to life.

There may be no explicit punishment that the US will ever realistically face, but there is a court with jurisdiction. It's no surprise that the US desists in recognising the authority of the ICC, and has sought bilateral and unilateral agreements with so many countries, that no US serviceman, representative or citizen "sent" by the US, shall ever be sent by those countries to face the ICC.

Furthermore, the US, as a nation, faces a weakening of those laws and rules that protect its other interests abroad, and they are worth substantially more than the invasion of one tinpot ME country.

The legality is the fact that the US subsribed to those laws, chose to break them, and couldn't even make a credible arguement about it.

The UN has roundly condemned the war as illegal, as have the following countries:
  • Russia
  • China
  • Pakistan
  • Morocco
  • Germany
  • France
  • New Zealand
  • Sweden
  • Switzerland
  • Belgium
  • Canada
Our own Attorney General has been categorically unable to declare the war legal.

If, by "ambiguous", you mean "misunderstood", then I forgve you, wholeheartedly.
 
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Once again I find myself in awe of your courduroy'ness Borris :p

Surely if we are going to remove all the programmes that might give Terrorists an idea or two about how to threaten the president then 24 should be banned too?? Or is that ok because all terrorists will think that the US have Jack Bauer and just not bother?

Seriously though, I don't quite get why the emotions are so high about another psuedo documentary about the possible assasination of the US president. The fact that it has been made I suspect will mean that any threats on his personal safety highlighted in the film will now be covered.

I might watch it if I'm a)in and b)not doing something more interesting like sleeping. However unless I am wrong this hasn't been shown yet so don't have any other opinion on it!
 
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I should imagine its because its a sitting president and the americans get wound up over that sort of thing. Believe it or not, unlike the UK they actually do respect the position even if they dont respect the man.

In any event its just another opportunity for the wet liberal 'we hate the US for no discernable reason' brigade to go and five knuckle shuffle over more docu-porn, right up there with '9/11 - A Jewish conspiracy' and 'McDonalds - cow murderers' - who gives a flying ****.
 
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penski said:
Never have I laughed as much...The people of America voted for the other guy...Twice...And they still got Bush.

...But that said, CBS and Visage bumming each other and their relationship spilling over into GD is pretty damn amusing. Keep it up, boys.

*n

Im getting a tad raw, TBH.
 
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penski said:
Never have I laughed as much...The people of America voted for the other guy...Twice...And they still got Bush.

...But that said, CBS and Visage bumming each other and their relationship spilling over into GD is pretty damn amusing. Keep it up, boys.

*n


PMSL :p yes thats democracy at its finest :p
 
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Von Smallhausen said:
Don't hold back mate, say wehat you really mean. :D

I have sources, news stories and statistics!

Seriously though, everyone needs to chill; it's TV for Christ's sake...

*n
 
Soldato
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penski said:
...But that said, CBS and Visage bumming each other and their relationship spilling over into GD is pretty damn amusing. Keep it up, boys.

*n

If that's you asking for a three way, you'll have to lose the beard - I know it's cool and alternative and stuff but it always makes me think of Will Riker off of Star Trek :(
 
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