1 in 10 young British Asians say honour killings justified.

[rabanthor]

no excuses, but if we wish to change something its best we try to fully understand it, wouldnt you agree? and not antagonise large groups of the world population by telling them the qur'an is evil, when it itself is not? and virii, I havent played down these acts at all. Are you suggesting I have?

 

[Indy500]

no excuses, but if we wish to change something its best we try to fully understand it, wouldnt you agree?

I'm of Asian descent myself..I'm perfectly aware of what it is.

While I'm at it, the caste system needs to go as well...

 

[VIRII]

no excuses, but if we wish to change something its best we try to fully understand it, wouldnt you agree? and not antagonise large groups of the world population by telling them the qur'an is evil, when it itself is not?

Any book that advocates killing people for adultery / homosexuality is pretty evil in my opinion, bible included.
I'll stick with Jesus re-evaluation of the "word of God" and comments like "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" personally.

As for antagonising large parts of the world .... why not? Are we supposed to try and "understand" female circumcision as well? What other barbaric acts should we "understand" before we can simply denounce them as being wrong and risk the wrath of a bunch of people whose morality is rooted firmly in the stone age?

 

[rabanthor]

Not sure how to respond to you virii. if we want peace between these different cultures we have to try and understand them first, and they us. else the future is pretty bleak. attitudes like yours wont really help achieve a solution (imo of course)

 

[Indy500]

Sadly, very few seem to resist the mechanisms of cultural and religious control.

 

[VIRII]

Not sure how to respond to you virii. if we want peace between these different cultures we have to try and understand them first, and they us. else the future is pretty bleak. attitudes like yours wont really help achieve a solution (imo of course)

How do you "understand" stoning gays and circumcising young girls?
What exactly is there to understand? What common ground are you going to be able to find there?

If we want peace between the different cultures then we need to seperate them and avoid as much inter cultural contact as possible. Trying to understand just seems to result in serious contempt of "corrupt western lifestyles" followed by bombings and death.

 

[rabanthor]

isolationism doesnt seem to have worked up till now. the west isnt going to disappear, and nor is islam, and having two vast cultures on one planet not communicating with one another seems like a recipie for disaster to me.

 

[VIRII]

isolationism doesnt seem to have worked up till now. the west isnt going to disappear, and nor is islam, and having two vast cultures on one planet not communicating with one another seems like a recipie for disaster to me.

All attempts to been non isolationist seem to have led to disaster as well.
Where there have been attempts to be "multi cultural" there have been fierce clashes and resentment and anger.

There is indeed a recipie for disaster but I don't think it will be solved by the west "understanding" or "capitulating" to acts of violence performed against it.
I expect there is going to be an almighty war and I suspect that the west will win, if there can ever be a "winner" in such scenarios.
As long as we are dependent upon oil the west has to keep "understanding" but that ends when we replace oil and that will happen.

 

[Sleepy]

How do you "understand" stoning gays and circumcising young girls?
What exactly is there to understand? What common ground are you going to be able to find there?

Enough to persuade them that they are wrong in their interpretation, so that they can be made to see an alternative and cease such barbarities. To understand enough to support those within a culture opposed to such barbarities. Otherwise whats the alternative?

If we want peace between the different cultures then we need to seperate them and avoid as much inter cultural contact as possible. Trying to understand just seems to result in serious contempt of "corrupt western lifestyles" followed by bombings and death.

We live on one planet with an irregular spread of finite resources, we cannot live seperate lives.

The west is to a much greater extent than people realise an innocent bystander in an internal dispute being fought within Islam. Its not just Sunni v Shia, its the spreading of the austere reactionary Wahhabi form of Islam. The origins of 9/11 can be traced back to Sadaam Husseins invasion of Kuwait. The invitiation by the Saudis to the US for military help angered OBL especially as his offer of 'help' had been rejected.

Understanding that the enemy isn't all of Islam, its the faction within thats divided the world into the people of heaven and the people of hell and with it a puritanical understanding of the first pillar.

 

[Sleepy]

suspect that the west will win, if there can ever be a "winner" in such scenarios.

I have no doubt that the west would win such a war. We are so very good at it.

As long as we are dependent upon oil the west has to keep "understanding" but that ends when we replace oil and that will happen.

When their oil runs out the Arab world will collapse back into an irrelevant back water that wont be worth fighting over.

 

[@if ®afiq]

The west is to a much greater extent than people realise an innocent bystander in an internal dispute being fought within Islam. Its not just Sunni v Shia, its the spreading of the austere reactionary Wahhabi form of Islam. The origins of 9/11 can be traced back to Sadaam Husseins invasion of Kuwait. The invitiation by the Saudis to the US for military help angered OBL especially as his offer of 'help' had been rejected.

I'm glad you touched on this and hope you find this article a good, albeit scary read.

 

[SiD the Turtle]

Its simple, there is no excuse for honour killings. I have to tread very carefully to avoid my loved one meeting the same fate...

I'm of Asian descent myself..I'm perfectly aware of what it is.

While I'm at it, the caste system needs to go as well...

I take it you are seeing someone outside of religion/caste?

 

[RaohNS]

I cant believe that Honour killings are still going on in the world today... let alone condoned... but then it doesnt really surprise me given that the Culture that backs it still thinks the years is 1390 something.

All the same there should be firm and strict altimatums set by Government to have the terrorists among us and the 40% that condoned the 7/7 rooted out and exiled... preferably to a country that harbours similar views... Iran would be a good place..

This is Britain, British... not Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indonesian, Arab etc... Britain...

>| Raoh |<

 

[cleanbluesky]

saying these texts themselves are a problem and tell everyone in the religion to stone people etc when clearly they make provisions that stoning wouldnt apply today.

Ask a Muslim if stoning is okay. Bear in mind that stoning seems to have fallen in popularity, yet execution for 'crimes' such as homosexuality have not. What exactly is your basis of defending Islam in that case?

You say you are tired of 'Koran bashing' yet I am tired of those who wish to defend Islam while knowing hardly anything about it. Luckily, it is becoming less prevalent.

 

[cleanbluesky]

Understanding that the enemy isn't all of Islam, its the faction within thats divided the world into the people of heaven and the people of hell and with it a puritanical understanding of the first pillar.

Look back even further and you will find the problem is with religious nationalism, basing any kind of political system of governance upon religion causes automatic state of conflict with any and all other forms of religion and governance.

The witch burning in Europe are a prime example of this problem. Millions of people were killed, it is not merely a problem that is unique to Islam.

 

[suki]

dont know if its been mentioned, but it should be 1 in 10 muslims. really annoys me when media continuously use asians.

its not europeans is it when the french do something wrong etc etc.

 

[@if ®afiq]

dont know if its been mentioned, but it should be 1 in 10 muslims. really annoys me when media continuously use asians.

Should it? Even if Sikhs and Hindus were questioned?

 

[Indy500]

I take it you are seeing someone outside of religion/caste?

Her caste, yes. Neither of us are religious. Of course, she thinks this caste stuff is total bull****

 

[SiD the Turtle]

Should it? Even if Sikhs and Hindus were questioned?

Perhaps he is slightly wrong, but they should at least sub-divide the results into the various communities, otherwise the true picture of who is agreeing with this will not be seen. I honestly believe that you will find the majority of people who agree with this will not be Christian, Sikh or Hindu. Its another case of hiding behind the 'asian' catch all to avoid offence and outrage.

Its like saying (bad made-up example approaching) that 40% of European people speak French. The sample is too generic to get true results, as its masking the true figures that would really say that 9.9/10 people in France speak French, and maybe only 1/100 people in the other European countries speak French.

 

[Sleepy]

Look back even further and you will find the problem is with religious nationalism, basing any kind of political system of governance upon religion causes automatic state of conflict with any and all other forms of religion and governance.

You use the term "religious nationalism" instead of the more usual term theocracy. Are you trying to associate modern islamism with pre enligthenment European christendom?

Your claim that a theocracy will be antogonistic to any neighbour which differs in religious beliefs or forms of government is not supported by history. Where there are many examples of theocracies in peaceful coexistance with their neighbours.

Even your bête noire, Islam can happily coexist with other faiths. In the early Caliphate, conversion to Islam by the conquered peoples of the ME, North Africa and Iberia was very restricted. You first had to be adopted into an Arab tribe before being allowed to become a muslim. Adoption into a tribe was a rare occurance. This went on for centuries before Islam assimilated virtually all of the local populations.

The witch burning in Europe are a prime example of this problem. Millions of people were killed, it is not merely a problem that is unique to Islam.

Millions may well be an exageration.