Front Parking Sensors

[Mickey_D]

Exactly, Lopez. If I could get a Model A with the reliability and power of my truck, I'd be happier than a pig in ****!!!

If you're (car manufacturer) going to install all these "options" that I don't want or need, at least give me a way of disconnecting them while still leaving the car operational.

If I wanted ABS, I'd order it on the car mainfest. If I wanted parking sensors, I'd order them on the car mainfest. But give me the option to have what I want, don't cram **** down my throat that's going to annoy the crap out of me every time I drive. That's NOT what I buy a car for.

If I wanted a buzzer to tell me I'm not wearing my seatbelt, I think I'd be at that point in my life where I'd seriously consider no longer driving. I KNOW I'm not wearing my seatbelt, I'm only moving the car 6 feet. I don't need some annoying alarm clock sounding buzzer to tell me something I'm fully aware of!!

Same thing with parking sensors. I know where the four corners of my car are. It's the first thing I learn about any new car, before I even put insurance on it. And if you know where the four corners are, you can extrapolate a straight line (at least I hope you can) in between those points. I don't want or need some annoying gadget telling me I'm getting close to that car behind. Maybe I'm doing it on purpose because I'm parallel parking!!

If I NEED something like that, I shouldn't be driving the vehicle. Plain and simple.


More and more I'm seeing cars developing into providers for laziness and incompetence to drivers. People are no longer willing to learn the basics of driving skills because the cars' electronics do it for them. But electronics break. Connectors get corroded. And a simple $5 computer chip CANNOT be programmed to anticipate a drivers' stupidity. But people expect them to and end up in even worse situations than if they'd actually learned to control thier car in the first place.


I am in no way a driving God, but I'd be willing to put myself up against everyone on here on a skidpad with both drivers in 1969 Volkswagen Beetles and I'd bet that 90% of you would spend more time in the grass than on the track. Only because you've never had to learn BASIC driving skills without the aid of electronic systems in your cars.

I have absolutely no problem driving 65mph on a solid sheet of glare ice in that deathtrap I call my Toyota. And the only thing electronic on it is the dismal failure they called a stereo. I've dodged deer that ran out in front of me, I've been chased by a nutter in a Honda Civic, I've been a total prat playing on some back streets with some coworkers at 1:00 in the morning, and I've even just gone out to have some fun by slinging it around by myself. I can go take a picture of it right now and you can compare it to the pictures I took when I bought it. It looks exactly the same. I haven't put it in a hedge, I haven't driven through a ditch, I haven't banged into a parked car with it. Why? Because I learned how to drive the ******* thing BEFORE I took it out on the public roads!!! And I don't need some damned electronic sensor to tell me how to park, it's an insult to my intelligence and my abilities.


Hence why it will be the first thing unplugged if I ever get stuck with a car that has them........

 

[JRS]

snip

Was anyone else playing a standing ovation in their head when they got to the end of that post?

 

[[TW]Fox]

No

 

[JRS]

No

Meh

 

[Sinizterguy]

Exactly, Lopez. If I could get a Model A with the reliability and power of my truck, I'd be happier than a pig in ****!!!

If you're (car manufacturer) going to install all these "options" that I don't want or need, at least give me a way of disconnecting them while still leaving the car operational.

If I wanted ABS, I'd order it on the car mainfest. If I wanted parking sensors, I'd order them on the car mainfest. But give me the option to have what I want, don't cram **** down my throat that's going to annoy the crap out of me every time I drive. That's NOT what I buy a car for.

If I wanted a buzzer to tell me I'm not wearing my seatbelt, I think I'd be at that point in my life where I'd seriously consider no longer driving. I KNOW I'm not wearing my seatbelt, I'm only moving the car 6 feet. I don't need some annoying alarm clock sounding buzzer to tell me something I'm fully aware of!!

Same thing with parking sensors. I know where the four corners of my car are. It's the first thing I learn about any new car, before I even put insurance on it. And if you know where the four corners are, you can extrapolate a straight line (at least I hope you can) in between those points. I don't want or need some annoying gadget telling me I'm getting close to that car behind. Maybe I'm doing it on purpose because I'm parallel parking!!

If I NEED something like that, I shouldn't be driving the vehicle. Plain and simple.


More and more I'm seeing cars developing into providers for laziness and incompetence to drivers. People are no longer willing to learn the basics of driving skills because the cars' electronics do it for them. But electronics break. Connectors get corroded. And a simple $5 computer chip CANNOT be programmed to anticipate a drivers' stupidity. But people expect them to and end up in even worse situations than if they'd actually learned to control thier car in the first place.


I am in no way a driving God, but I'd be willing to put myself up against everyone on here on a skidpad with both drivers in 1969 Volkswagen Beetles and I'd bet that 90% of you would spend more time in the grass than on the track. Only because you've never had to learn BASIC driving skills without the aid of electronic systems in your cars.

I have absolutely no problem driving 65mph on a solid sheet of glare ice in that deathtrap I call my Toyota. And the only thing electronic on it is the dismal failure they called a stereo. I've dodged deer that ran out in front of me, I've been chased by a nutter in a Honda Civic, I've been a total prat playing on some back streets with some coworkers at 1:00 in the morning, and I've even just gone out to have some fun by slinging it around by myself. I can go take a picture of it right now and you can compare it to the pictures I took when I bought it. It looks exactly the same. I haven't put it in a hedge, I haven't driven through a ditch, I haven't banged into a parked car with it. Why? Because I learned how to drive the ******* thing BEFORE I took it out on the public roads!!! And I don't need some damned electronic sensor to tell me how to park, it's an insult to my intelligence and my abilities.


Hence why it will be the first thing unplugged if I ever get stuck with a car that has them........

If you dont like electronics, drive a car from the stone age, and let people who like them use them.

Front parking sensors are stupid, but rear ones are convenient.

 

[JRS]

If you dont like electronics, drive a car from the stone age, and let people who like them use them.

He does. I'm not saying the Toyota is ancient, but there are bits of it made out of the bones of a woolly mammoth....

( @ Darrin)

 

[NickXX]

Exactly, Lopez. If I could get a Model A with the reliability and power of my truck, I'd be happier than a pig in ****!!!

If you're (car manufacturer) going to install all these "options" that I don't want or need, at least give me a way of disconnecting them while still leaving the car operational.

If I wanted ABS, I'd order it on the car mainfest. If I wanted parking sensors, I'd order them on the car mainfest. But give me the option to have what I want, don't cram **** down my throat that's going to annoy the crap out of me every time I drive. That's NOT what I buy a car for.

If I wanted a buzzer to tell me I'm not wearing my seatbelt, I think I'd be at that point in my life where I'd seriously consider no longer driving. I KNOW I'm not wearing my seatbelt, I'm only moving the car 6 feet. I don't need some annoying alarm clock sounding buzzer to tell me something I'm fully aware of!!

Same thing with parking sensors. I know where the four corners of my car are. It's the first thing I learn about any new car, before I even put insurance on it. And if you know where the four corners are, you can extrapolate a straight line (at least I hope you can) in between those points. I don't want or need some annoying gadget telling me I'm getting close to that car behind. Maybe I'm doing it on purpose because I'm parallel parking!!

If I NEED something like that, I shouldn't be driving the vehicle. Plain and simple.


More and more I'm seeing cars developing into providers for laziness and incompetence to drivers. People are no longer willing to learn the basics of driving skills because the cars' electronics do it for them. But electronics break. Connectors get corroded. And a simple $5 computer chip CANNOT be programmed to anticipate a drivers' stupidity. But people expect them to and end up in even worse situations than if they'd actually learned to control thier car in the first place.


I am in no way a driving God, but I'd be willing to put myself up against everyone on here on a skidpad with both drivers in 1969 Volkswagen Beetles and I'd bet that 90% of you would spend more time in the grass than on the track. Only because you've never had to learn BASIC driving skills without the aid of electronic systems in your cars.

I have absolutely no problem driving 65mph on a solid sheet of glare ice in that deathtrap I call my Toyota. And the only thing electronic on it is the dismal failure they called a stereo. I've dodged deer that ran out in front of me, I've been chased by a nutter in a Honda Civic, I've been a total prat playing on some back streets with some coworkers at 1:00 in the morning, and I've even just gone out to have some fun by slinging it around by myself. I can go take a picture of it right now and you can compare it to the pictures I took when I bought it. It looks exactly the same. I haven't put it in a hedge, I haven't driven through a ditch, I haven't banged into a parked car with it. Why? Because I learned how to drive the ******* thing BEFORE I took it out on the public roads!!! And I don't need some damned electronic sensor to tell me how to park, it's an insult to my intelligence and my abilities.

Hence why it will be the first thing unplugged if I ever get stuck with a car that has them........

This is probably the most backwards thinking post I've ever read on these forums. Electronic aids are there to make life easier and safer. ABS WILL stop your car quicker. Seat belt reminders are there to irritate the morons who think it's fine to drive around without seatbelts.

You probably will drive better than me in a 1969 Beetle on a skidpan track. However I'm never going to own, or probably even drive a 1969 Beetle. I'm pretty sure a new driver in a DSC/ESP/ABS laden car would outsmart you on a skid pan session. I've never NEEDED to learn how to drive a car without driver aids, and I never will.

Turning off DSC will let you go sideways around every bend in the road if you really needed to - but why is this necessary on a public road? I'm happy knowing that there is a computer keeping my car in a straight line which is more capable than 99.9% of drivers out there. Very few people will be able to match the ability of stability systems - you'd be an idiot to turn them off on public roads.

...and as for parking sensors - why unplug them? They're just an extra set of eyes. Yes I can park a car without them, however it's easier parking with them.

You don't live on the set of a Terminator film, the computers really aren't out to get you.

 

[dilated]

If I ever end up stuck with a car that has them in it, it'll be the first fuse pulled.

I really do find that comment a little weird, no matter how great you are at parking it just might save you from an insurance claim one day.

I can understand poeople saying that a basic but sporty car such as a lotus or early golf gti is more attractive - i share that view to a certain extent. but on the other hand when im sat on the motorway doing 40/50 on the way to work on a cold and wet monday morning; i like my climate control and heated seat, i like my auto box and cruise control, i like my auto-wipers and hedlamps - all these things make my drive into work a little less stressful and allow me to focus on more important matters such as the road and the day ahead.

 

[JRS]

This is probably the most backwards thinking post I've ever read on these forums. Electronic aids are there to make life easier and safer. ABS WILL stop your car quicker. Seat belt reminders are there to irritate the morons who think it's fine to drive around without seatbelts.

All well and good. But what about those of us who want a car without all that nonsense, just a cheap car that will get a driver from Point A to Point B without winding him/her up with incessant beeping or interfering? I can see our options being somewhat limited in the new car market in a few years time.

I've never NEEDED to learn how to drive a car without driver aids

Sadly, I suspect that statment holds true for moer than a few drivers these days.

and I never will.

Bold statement.

Very few people will be able to match the ability of stability systems - you'd be an idiot to turn them off on public roads.

Cheers for that one princess. Glad you hold my intelligence in such low regard.

...and as for parking sensors - why unplug them? They're just an extra set of eyes. Yes I can park a car without them, however it's easier parking with them.

I for one would unplug them because they annoy me. I have enough warning lights and random malfunctions to cope with on most of the cars I drive semi-regularly without having something else competing for my attention.

You don't live on the set of a Terminator film, the computers really aren't out to get you.

Yes, they are

snip

I like air-con, and an auto 'box, and cruise control, and heated seats. I have no problem with those. I do have a problem with stuff beeping at me to let me know how close I am to the car I'm trying to park behind - I know. I have eyes. I am aware of just how long my car is. And I don't need the car to tell me that. Fortunately the damn things are still an option on a lot of cars. And there are an awful lot of older cars left for me to buy that will allow me to drive along basking in my own anti-technology glow

 

[Freefaller]

I have no driver aids bar ABS - but even with harsh driving and in the rain I've never had it engage. Maybe that's because oh I don't know, I know how to drive and I don't NEED driver aids?

People should have to learn to drive without driver aids - I did - I never crashed a car and every one I've owned never had stability control or anything else. The only thing I've ever had is ABS (and then again, not on all of my cars) furthermore my bike doesn't have ANYTHING, bar my skill/luck. I like to be in TOTAL control of my machine - I don't want the car Thinking it can drive better than me - it can't. It's a machine - it can't tell what's really going on, it just reacts the way it's been programmed to.

I'm with Mickey on this one.

However I agree that kids probably should have these devices with their powerful machines - but unfortunately they feel it makes them awesome drivers, and when the machines CAN'T save you you're stuffed - why? Because they haven't got a clue on how to drive and rely on technology to save them. They don't always work, after all physics is physics, if you're going too fast you are going TOO fast - and no matter how much technology you have it's not going to stop you from crashing - just hope you're in a solid tank of a car.

Get rid of driver aids, and help bring the gene pool/population under control.

 

[NickXX]

All well and good. But what about those of us who want a car without all that nonsense, just a cheap car that will get a driver from Point A to Point B without winding him/her up with incessant beeping or interfering? I can see our options being somewhat limited in the new car market in a few years time.

I thought old sheds went on forever?

Sadly, I suspect that statment holds true for moer than a few drivers these days.

So why is this an issue? Instead of stacking it through a hedge or into a wall in a 'learning experience', DSC will sort you out...

Bold statement.

Not at all, out of all the prospective replacements for my car, all have more advanced driver aids than I currently have. Every car that I've 'owned' has had driver aids too.

Cheers for that one princess. Glad you hold my intelligence in such low regard.

So you're able to brake your wheels individually several hundred times a second? No? Didn't think so. Princess.

I for one would unplug them because they annoy me. I have enough warning lights and random malfunctions to cope with on most of the cars I drive semi-regularly without having something else competing for my attention.

I've never had any warning lights or random malfunctions in any of the cars I've driven. If you regularly drove a car with parking sensors (or maybe if you tried a car with driving sensors?) you'd realise they're not the Devil's own.

I like air-con, and an auto 'box, and cruise control, and heated seats. I have no problem with those. I do have a problem with stuff beeping at me to let me know how close I am to the car I'm trying to park behind - I know. I have eyes. I am aware of just how long my car is. And I don't need the car to tell me that. Fortunately the damn things are still an option on a lot of cars. And there are an awful lot of older cars left for me to buy that will allow me to drive along basking in my own anti-technology glow

Like I've said before, the parking sensors act as another set of eyes and will be able to see things that you physically cannot - such as low objects. They don't do the job for you, they merely assist you - how on earth can this be a problem?

 

[JRS]

I thought old sheds went on forever?

Don't think anyone has ever said that, least of all me. The Olds is proof that eventually tin-worm will claim even the sturdiest bits of steel.

So why is this an issue? Instead of stacking it through a hedge or into a wall in a 'learning experience', DSC will sort you out...

Yep. And then the first time some idiot (not you I hasten to add, talking in general terms here) finds himself/herself in a car without any of those toys they stand a good chance of "stacking it" because they've always had cars that have sorted it for them. All well and good saying "I'll never drive a car without stability control/TC/active damping" - what happens if it fails mid-corner when you're going maybe a touch quicker than you think you are? Might be very unlikely, but it must have happened at some point to someone even if it was just in the testing phase.

Not at all, out of all the prospective replacements for my car, all have more advanced driver aids than I currently have. Every car that I've 'owned' has had driver aids too.

Good for you. I can't afford a car with anything more exotic than power steering and a brake servo on the driving aids front right now

So you're able to brake your wheels individually several hundred times a second? No? Didn't think so. Princess.

Never said I could. What I would say is that I know my limits, I know what both my cars are capable of, and I generally do my level best not to approach said limits on public roads. But on the occasions (4am on an empty road) where I do want to have some fun then I don't want to have to disable a metric ****-ton of crap before I go. And it's getting to the point where the "off" button no longer works quite that way on a lot of cars. Take the 300C - turn the TC 'off', and it's still there, forcing you to accept help from a bunch of circuits and computer chips.

I just want a big button marked "OFF" for everything. Hell, I'd wire one in to the fuse box for it - a button that turns off all the driving aids in one fell swoop. I quite like that idea actually - a big red button on the dash with a DANGER sign on it.

I've never had any warning lights or random malfunctions in any of the cars I've driven. If you regularly drove a car with parking sensors (or maybe if you tried a car with driving sensors?) you'd realise they're not the Devil's own.

It's more likely that I'd have been driven to murder everyone involved in the construction of the car long before I got used to the parking sensors jabbering away. I never laid claim to being a fully rational person

Like I've said before, the parking sensors act as another set of eyes and will be able to see things that you physically cannot - such as low objects. They don't do the job for you, they merely assist you - how on earth can this be a problem?

I'm going to italicise and bolden this, and go up a few font sizes, just to make sure I'm understood:

I don't want any help from the car when I'm parking. I don't need any help from the car when I'm parking. If parking sensors become standard on a car I want to own, and cannot be turned off with a button, then I shall disconnect them from the power once I own said car.

Anyone not get my position on this now?

 

[Cueball]

People should have to learn to drive without driver aids.

Agreed.

Things like ABS and PAS are OK in my books, because most modern cars have them and they are both designed to enhance safety and control of the vehicle. Things like parking sensor-thingys are removing control from the user and forcing the driver to place his faith into a piece of technology rather than his own skill.

Example: look how many drivers reverse without even LOOKING.

 

[nam]

If you need forward parking sensors you shouldn't be driving imo, it shows a lack of awareness of the space your own car takes up

Instead of letting technology drive the car for you those people should practise parking!

mentioned earlier that is a shared car and i'm considering doing this for the other drivers

 

[Lopéz]

Did anyone see the bit on the news the other week about differences between UK buyers and buyers in Europe? Apparently over here we don't demand ESP/ESC/DSC/Whatever enough and are not willing to pay extra for it whereas in many continental countries it is considered "essential"

Apparently the Government wants to change our mindset so that we think of such things as essentials not extras.

 

[Entai]

I think most of you know my position on gizmos and gadgets on cars that try to tell me how to do something I am perfectly capable of doing myself.

A friend of mine works in a local body shop, and he sees on average around three cars a month, that have been stacked badly because the power steering failed. A simple thing, everyone takes it for granted, but could YOU cope if it failed at any point.

Even simpler what do you do if the vacuum hose on your servo springs a leak??????
Oh dear, you have no brakes, now what happens???????

How about a blow out on a tyre how do you go about controlling that??????

How about if the steering wheel boss breaks off the top of the column and you have no steering???????

How about if mid corner the anti roll bar snaps, or the bottom ball joint breaks??????

How about.....

All these things and more have happened to me, in various cars, on the public road. In every situation I coped, I controlled the car, I knew what to do, and how to get out of a rather sticky situation. I never crashed into any other vehicle while controlling mine, and getting it stopped in a safe place.

These things can and do break, so you have to know how to handle the situation when they do, it should be basic knowledge.

The main point that has been raised is that all these new gadgets are electronic, not mechanical, so there is even more chance they could go wrong, rusty connectors, frayed wiring, dodgy fuses, etc.

I feel really sorry for people learning to drive now because they will never have the chance to learn these what should be basic skills and it could easily cost their lives.

 

[Freefaller]

The main point that has been raised is that all these new gadgets are electronic, not mechanical, so there is even more chance they could go wrong, rusty connectors, frayed wiring, dodgy fuses, etc.

I feel really sorry for people learning to drive now because they will never have the chance to learn these what should be basic skills and it could easily cost their lives.

Bravo and well said.

 

[Entai]

Apparently the Government wants to change our mindset so that we think of such things as essentials not extras.

They also want us to change our mindset, so that we think speed cameras are good.


Yeah right, , about as much chance as .............














Ohhh no, (In best Victor Meldrew speak)........I don't believe it.......[/Victor]..............look up there..........






























........ a low flying porcine, watching a snow ball fight in hell

 

[Dave85]

think about it though, if we spaces like the size they are in american there would never be car park bumps and scrapes roads are huge, come over here and try park a ford f350? pickup lol in an asda car park.

 

[Mickey_D]

I've never NEEDED to learn how to drive a car without driver aids, and I never will.

Never going to rent a car? Never plan on your car having an electrical fault?