Elton John suggests we ban organised religion

[The Running Man]

In the Bible, God used to be around some people a long time before Jesus was born yet there were so many people that refused to believe in Lord (including witnessing events after Moses took slaves out of Egypt) and went on to worship their own 'icon' gods instead. After witnessing many miracles made by Lord, people were still too stubborn to believe in God.

Also also in the times of Jesus, people around him did not believe he is the son of God and some people even thought he was the king of all devils which is also wrong. Also Jews does not believe in Jesus.

I'm sure that if God or Jesus really show up today, many people will probably refuse to believe in them as always before and what's the point really. Do you really expect them to come down and 'fix' the earth especially when the most important and eternal life is in the heaven. As the Bible has pointed out, the life on Earth isn't heaven as many people make it to be, it's up there!

It's all down to people and it's called the faith.

Exactly, there were people around during that time who actually "witnessed" the "miracles" before them and sitll did not believe.

are we saying that these individuals were too stubborn to believe? or infact what they saw was not a "miracle" and gave them no reason to believe?

Did you know that only 400 years after Jesus's death there was no consensus even within the Christian faith as to jesus's holiness..there was a council borught together by a previously pagan emporer of rome, Constantine;

"The Council declared that the Father and the Son are of the same substance and are co-eternal, basing the declaration in the claim that this was a formulation of traditional Christian belief handed down from the Apostles. This belief was expressed in the Nicene Creed."

if he was who we are led to believe he was meant to be. Infact if you were to look into the routes of the new testament, and scan through ALL of the books which did not make the "cut" i am sure you would find Jesus's to be a great inspirational leader of men... but maybe not much more than that. Obviously this is not communicated by the church, or the bible, as it would not have the impact they like, and the control it brings.

if infact there was a holy body which came down to us in todays world sure there would be scepticism, but after scientific testing/close examination would reveal a trickster or a miracle worker.

 

[iamgud]

I agree with Elton.

when was the last time you read of all the great things relgion has done???

how often do you read about wars, suicide bombings, murders etc ect etc because of religion.

Sorry to offend but IMO relgion is stupid. however I do beleive that it is possible God exists.


as for Gays Vs religion. Gays don't hurt people. suicide bombings in the name of religion causes harm.

 

[Spacky]

I agree with Elton.

when was the last time you read of all the great things relgion has done???

how often do you read about wars, suicide bombings, murders etc ect etc because of religion.

Sorry to offend but IMO relgion is stupid. however I do beleive that it is possible God exists.


as for Gays Vs religion. Gays don't hurt people. suicide bombings in the name of religion causes harm.

According to the Americans Gays spread Aids.

 

[iamgud]

Bad Aids....

 

[Amleto]

I agree with Elton.

when was the last time you read of all the great things relgion has done???

...

You should do a bit of research into how many donations/how much given for natural disasters come from religous organisations. Now compare that to the amount given from secular organisations.

Of course, you wouldn't hear about something relgious being 'good' in the news though.

 

[locutus12]

Big post comming...

Me too, for fear that he might bum me into next week.

immature pillock.

LOL great a gay reckons we should ban all organised religion...kinda ironic that he and his partner had a full church wedding then

Damn batty boy, should be stoned and hung tbh.....islamic style

you and Hitler have far too much in common for your own good.

Elton John also blames the Catholic church for the fact that 40 of his close friends died of aids. His reasoning, the Catholic church banned the use of condoms. I'm sure his friends really heeded this fact as they merrily banged each other.

give me a source please otherwise i will have to tell you your comment was utter bull****.

My excuse? None but the reality of things - Christain religion if practised properly is anti Homogay (soddom and gommarrah?) while Islam wont tolerate their existence.

If your going to talk about christian religion, read the bible properly. im a catholic myself and im also gay and heres what i can tell you about it, i hope some of you will find it informative:

Genesis 19

This chapter describes how two angels visited Sodom and were welcomed into Lot’s house, he men of the city gathered around the house and demanded that Lot send the strangers to the mob so that they might "know" the angels.

The Hebrew verb which is commonly translated as "know" is yada. Its meaning is ambiguous. It appears 943 times elsewhere in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). In only about a dozen of these cases does it refers to sexual activity - all heterosexual. It is not clear whether the mob wanted to rape the angels or to meet with them, and perhaps attack them physically

Sensing evil intent by his fellow citizens of Sodom, Lot refused. As an alternative, he offered his two virgin daughters to be heterosexually raped if that would appease the mob. The offer was declined. Later, the angels urged Lot and his family to flee and to not look back. Unfortunately, Lot’s wife seems to have had an inquisitive mind. She looked the wrong way, so God killed her for her curiosity. One has to look elsewhere in the Bible for references to Sodom in order to determine which of the four interpretations is correct.

It is unclear from these few verses in Genesis whether God demolished the city because the citizens habitually:

1. were uncharitable and abusive to strangers
2. wanted to rape visitors
3. engaged in homosexual acts
4. wanted to engage in bestiality (the mob may have wanted to rape the angels; angels are not human beings; they are considered to be a different species)

The Church has traditionally accepted the third explanation: that the crime of Sodom was homosexual activity


Isaiah 1:

The entire first chapter is an utter condemnation of Judah. They are repeatedly compared with Sodom and Gomorra in their evildoing and depravity. Throughout the chapter, the Prophet lists many sins of the people: rebelling against God, lacking in knowledge, deserting the Lord, idolatry, engaging in meaningless religious ritual, being unjust and oppressive to others, being insensitive to the needs of widows and orphans, committing murder, accepting bribes, etc. Homosexuality and other sexual activities were not mentioned at all.

Ezekiel 16:49-50:

Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

God states clearly that he destroyed Sodom’s sins because of their pride, their excess of food while the poor and needy suffered; sexual activity is not even mentioned.

We are faced with the inescapable and rather ironic conclusion that the condemned activities in Sodom had nothing to do with sodomy. As one Christian editor (9) wrote: "To suggest that Sodom and Gomorra is about homosexual sex is an analysis of about as much worth as suggesting that the story of Jonah and the whale is a treatise on fishing." There is still another level of irony associated with this passage: God seems to condemn the citizens for insensitive treatment and harassment of others. But, this is the favorite Biblical passage that some Christian faith groups use to attack gays and lesbians

Leveticus 18:22
Some English translations of this verse are:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination (King James Version)

# LB: (Living Bible):
Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin

# NIV: (New International Version)
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable

# NLT: (New Living Translation):
Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin

# RSV: (Revised Standard Version):
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination

Conservative Christians typically interpret this verse as condemning homosexual behavior of all types: from rape, to casual sex to monogamous sexual activity within a committed relationship.This passage is a part of the Holiness Code which is described in Leviticus 17:1 to 26:46. The code lists 614 ethical and ritual laws which were to be followed by the ancient Israelites. The purpose of the laws was to differentiate the Israelites from their neighbors - to keep them pure.

A consensus exists amongst Christian theologians, pastors and teleministers that 612 out of the 614 components of the Holiness Code are no longer in force for today’s Christians. The code permits:

* slavery (25:44)
It requires:

* a child to be killed if he/she curses their parent (20:9)
* all persons guilty of adultery to be killed (20:10)
* the daughter of a priest who engages in prostitution to be killed (21:9)
* the bride of a priest to be a virgin (21:13)
* ritual killing of animals, using cattle, sheep and goats (22:19)
* observation of 7 feasts: Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Feast of Firstfruits, Feast of Pentecost, Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles (23)
* a person who takes the Lord’s name in vain is to be killed (24:16)

It prohibits:

* heterosexual intercourse when a woman has her period (18:19)
* harvesting the corners of a field (19:9)
* eating fruit from a young tree (19:23)
* wearing clothes that are made from a textile blend (19:19)
* cross-breeding livestock (19:19)
* sowing a field with mixed seed (19:19)
* shaving or getting a hair cut (19:27)
* tattoos (19:28)
* even a mildly disabled person from becoming a priest (21:18)
* charging of interest on a loan (25:37)

However, essentially all conservative Christian leaders teach that only one Holiness Law, the one which deals with homosexuality, is still valid today. Christians are free to wear tattoos, eat shrimp, pork or rare meat, wear polyester-cotton blends, seed their lawns with a grass mixture, and get their hair cut. But homosexuality is somehow taboo. We have been unable to find any logical explanation that would justify retaining this one law against homosexuality while abandoning all of the rest. We find their stance to be less than ethical.


source and reference:
http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/hom_bibh.htm

 

[Psyk]

There is no logical basis for atheism (strong or weak) because the hypothesis cannot be tested, hence the "there is no evidence" argument is a logical fallacy.

I partly agree and partly disagree. It's true that it's illogical to say for definite that there is no god because there is no way to prove it. But it does make sense to say that it is very unlikely that god exists. I'll use the good old teapot in space example.

We cannot prove that there isn't a teapot orbiting the sun since however hard we looked, we might not have looked in the right place. But there's not much chance of there being such a teapot because teapots are a human invention and since no one (as far as I know anyway ) has attempted to launch a teapot into orbit around the sun, chances are there isn't one there. There still could be though. Maybe aliens also happened to invent teapots as well and they put it there. Or maybe someone from NASA accidentally left a teapot in one of their probes. But those are pretty unlikely events.

The same thing can be applied to god. There could be a god out there somewhere. But there's a lot of historical evidence to say that our concept of god is man made. And since it's a man made concept, it's unlikely for it to really exist out there where man has had no influence on it.

Maybe that makes me agnostic rather than atheist, but since I consider the chances of god existing as pretty damn low, I'd say I'm a weak atheist.

 

[Yas786]

you and Hitler have far too much in common for your own good.

It was a light hearted joke ...geez humour by pass or what....

Rest of your post , easy on the religious sermon eh??

 

[locutus12]

It was a light hearted joke ...geez humour by pass or what....

Rest of your post , easy on the religious sermon eh??

it wasnt a sermon, its a scientific analysis of why people like yourself think the way that you do even if only in jest. if you didnt spot that, try reading it again

 

[Psyk]

Rest of your post , easy on the religious sermon eh??

I found it really interesting. I have a friend who is gay and catholic and according to him the catholic church pretty much ignores homosexuality these days. They don't forbid it, but they don't exactly endorse it either. But I find it odd that they seem to be against condoms, even in homosexual acts. Doesn't make much sense to me as it's not even being used a contraceptive and I thought that was the whole reason they weren't allowed.

 

[Macabre]

LOL great a gay reckons we should ban all organised religion...kinda ironic that he and his partner had a full church wedding then

Damn batty boy, should be stoned and hung tbh.....islamic style

Rofl +1.

 

[locutus12]

I found it really interesting. I have a friend who is gay and catholic and according to him the catholic church pretty much ignores homosexuality these days. They don't forbid it, but they don't exactly endorse it either. But I find it odd that they seem to be against condoms, even in homosexual acts. Doesn't make much sense to me as it's not even being used a contraceptive and I thought that was the whole reason they weren't allowed.

i believe pope John Paul condoned their use shortly before he died, mainly for the sake of Africa. im not certain though. still im glad you found it all interesting its abit of an eye opener that much is true. as for other religions though, i couldn't and wouldn't comment on them without doing some serious reading first.

p.s. the catholic church far from ignores it, in a recent issue of guidlines from the vatican of what to do with child abusing priests they decided to out line the vaticans stance on homosexuality in the same damn book, as if they were one and the same thing...

 

[Amleto]

...

copy/paste

We have been unable to find any logical explanation that would justify retaining this one law against homosexuality while abandoning all of the rest.

...

source and reference:
http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/hom_bibh.htm

Perhaps because gay=bad is mentioned in the NT too?

 

[Psyk]

p.s. the catholic church far from ignores it, in a recent issue of guidlines from the vatican of what to do with child abusing priests they decided to out line the vaticans stance on homosexuality in the same damn book, as if they were one and the same thing...

Well I kind of figured what he said wasn't completely accurate. He's not going to want to admit that his religion doesn't allow him to practice what he is.

 

[Zip]

Big post coming...

1. were uncharitable and abusive to strangers

That is what i under stand why the city got destroyed, Maybe Catholics have twisted the words a bit, we all know how harsh the Irish Catholics are.
No offence but IMO Catholic Christianity is effected too much by the popes and the man. The seem to write the rules them selves


Im from a family that goes to an AOG church(In other words Pentecostal) and not once i have been told that they destroyed that city because they were performing gay acts. it has always been because it was due to how corrupt the city had become and how self indulgent and all the murders rapes and inhumane things that was going on.

Also The part where you mention Leveticus 18:22

That is the Old Testament, A lot of that changed and some of those become less strict after Jesus was nailed on the cross IIRC, A lot of the rules given to them back then that are found in Leviticus to stop incest and other acts that could cause problems for the community or cause infections. They lived in a harsh time where people wernt as clean so they were given those set of rules to keep Gods people alive long enough to spread through out the world and live through the ages.
Today where people are cleaner and clean more and condoms are available some of the laws dont seem to apply as much anymore of it doesn't effect the human gene pool and brings deformities IE: incest.(The reason why people still obey no sleeping with your sister rule)
Same reason why they were told to get Circumcised, it was to keep them safer from infection and disease.
God gave 2 types of rules really, Moral rules which should be followed all the time and Survival rules which should be followed in times of need where it could cause problems for people and the community.

Edit: Also a reason the rule on gays was set abck then si because if the men were sleeping with each other then there would have been less men sleeping with women and that would mean less people being created to follow gods law. And they needed people back then to help keep the land they were given safe and out of the enemys hands

 

[locutus12]

Perhaps because gay=bad is mentioned in the NT too?

i was dealing with the OT as thats the main one quoted when people try to tell me which level of hell i will be burning in for all eternity... (youd think people had better things to worry about) but i can deal with the Hippocracy of the NT too if you'd like?

 

[valve90210]

I think they should ban Elton John, he's been comiting crimes against music for years and bloody years now.

lmao!!!

Valve

 

[The Running Man]

why not just ban being gay, then there would be no gay bashing?!

same kinda logic as the raving elton...

i dont think that anyone can be "religious" and be homosexual, the 2 are poles apart. pretty much every major faith hath decreed it a sin.

 

[MiGSY]

I agree. That's one of the first things I'd do if I ever came to power over this country - Enforce an outright ban on religion. Anyone found to be practicing any religion would be shot there and then. Then we'd celebrate and dance around a massive bonfire of burning bibles, qur'ans and other religious literatures. Oh happy days.

I know it'll never happen, but I can dream can't I?

 

[Zip]

i dont think that anyone can be "religious" and be homosexual, the 2 are poles apart. pretty much every major faith hath decreed it a sin.

If you put it that way then i cant be Christian because in the bible it says to get circumcised and it seems that i still have my hood.

Somethings in the bible where said to protect the health of the community like i stated in my last post and other things were said to set rules and stop murders and rapes and to get people to help people and to give people a set of morals they can base themselves on and they are the ones that if they get broken then thats classed as sinning