Dell 2407 on Deal of the week!

[fish99]

You can find fault in any product if you look long and hard enough, I've got two 2407's and for the money they are great, sure they have their issues but all in all they are a good buy.

Sure, but as someone who is thinking about an upgrade from a 2007WFP to the 2407WFP, I need to know about stuff like movie playback noise. My 2007 has two main weaknesses - movie noise and black depth, and I would hate to spend as much as the 2407 costs and not see an improvement in these areas over my current screen.

I don't suppose anyone (Baddass maybe) has used both the 2007 and 2407 and could compare black depth and movie playback on them? From the specs the 2407 should be superior. I don't really understand why movies look so bad on TFTs when they can offer such excellent pictures for gaming. I understand the noise is part of the film, but TFTs don't half exaggerate it.

 

[Baddass]

I wasn't very impressed with the black depth and movie playback on the 2007WFP either, those were the two weaknesses in my opinion too. I haven't used a 2407WFP, but the 2405FPW does offer a better black depth in practical use than the 2007WFP did. Movie noise may well vary though as the more aggressive overdrive on the 2407 might well accentuate it more than on the 2405. However, I didn't find movie noise too much of an issue from a watchable distance, and with a 24" screen, you need to be a couple of metres away anyway.

 

[Baddass]

and Humate, no one minds you critising the 2407WFP, and it's certainly good to have varied and honst opinions of any screen. I didn't see the comments which were removed earlier on, but if it gets to the point of trolling, or argueing with the moderators in an antagonistic way, then it would be removed.

 

[HEADRAT]

IHowever, I didn't find movie noise too much of an issue from a watchable distance

Agreed if you stare at the screen from 3 inches away I'm sure it will look carp

What I would say is asking somebody on a forum isn't the greatest about such issues, everyone’s level of tollerance to these issues is different and qualatative not quantative.

HEADRAT

 

[Baddass]

definitely. Movie noise is a minor issue really i would say as long as you are happy to watch from a couple of metres away it's not going to be a big problem for most users.

 

[Humate]

my post deserved to be deleted really

If you switch to gaming or multimedia mode on the 2407... and then look at a black to white gradient, u will notice quite readily that at the banding boundaries there is quite a lot of noise in these regions (unless my 2407 is different). In desktop mode this is much reduced, but the noise is noticeable if u look for it. The difference between the banding and noise though is that the banding is unoticeable in normal use, whilst on movies the noise is very noticeable. I never see this noise however in games. I dont know why it seems to be restricted to films. Games look great and the colours are nice and vibrant although i find it very difficult to ignore the AR coating. My dissapointment is fading, and unfortunately u cant get anything better atm at this price.

In response to fish99's black depth... i have never used a 2007. This 2407 is my first expensive monitor too. If by black depth u merely mean does black look black then yes. Black looks very black and at first my brain coulnt really comprehend it after using usless monitors for so many years. Whether u personally would see this black depth as an improvement on a 2007 i have absolutely no idea im afraid. Noise is only introduced into dark grey gradients on my monitor, which i suppose are quite prevelent in movies.

 

[igors]

definitely. Movie noise is a minor issue really i would say as long as you are happy to watch from a couple of metres away it's not going to be a big problem for most users.

I was always questioning the much hyped movie noise in the reviews around. It's simply not relevant that much as proper movie watching requires carefully planned ergonomic distance. On the other hand, critical movie watching on 20" sized panel or so is simply ... silly. Even 24" size is limiting. More importantly, pick any modern and latest & greatest LCD TV and you will have the same thing, so what's all the fuss about ?! People should really chill out about the movie noise. It's really not massively important. There are plenty of other factors which are more important for the movie playback and ultimately they are dependant on other monitor features.

If someone REALLY need to watch the movies from close proximity:

- Turn down the sharpness control which should reduce the graininess somewhat, but at expense of detail (a bit like CRT-ish feel)

- Use video de-noise and de-blocking filters. Any modern media playback software is supporting this nowadays. Even video card drivers itself.

- Try to avoid scaling when using DivX, DVD or any other 480p source.Good scaling is complex and expensive to implement; in other words less expensive the product, less scaling quality.

 

[Humate]

To my eyes the movie noise is more than noticeable no matter what distance u view it from. I feel now people are wanting more and more to buy a monitor that does it all: Games console, movies, and general desktop stuff. Every decent plasma or lcd that i have seen i have never even noticed any noise... although my parents did buy a cheap 20" lcd tv and that is truly awful. Even when u walk around tv shops in the 1-2 meter spaced aisles i havent noticed noise to this level on even mid ranged lcd/plasma TV's. Nonetheless, its all about what one finds reasonable.

 

[fish99]

If I sit at my desk watching my 20" 2007WFP it fills up a much bigger portion of my view than sitting 6 foot away from my 28" (27" visible) CRT TV. I don't accept that watching movies on a PC is silly - I've watched quite a few films on my PC in the past and I've found that it's a more involving and enjoyable experience than sitting half a room away from a TV set. It's closer to the feel of being at the cinema in my opinion (including uncomfortable seating )

As for movie noise, I've done some testing earlier with Return of the King DVD. On my 2007WFP playing through Power DVD the noise was very noticeable on all but dark colours, and genuinely unpleasant. I also tried a 19" CRT monitor, again with Power DVD, and to my surprise it was nearly as bad as on the TFT. However on my 28" CRT TV through my Philips DVD player, even up close, the noise was far less noticeable, although it was still there.

Interestingly if I use my Xbox 360 connected through VGA to my 2007WFP (1280*768), there's noticeably less noise than using Power DVD through my PC. And if I connect my Philips DVD player through s-video into my 2007WFP the noise is even less, although it still doesn't match the level on my TV.

So I think the screen isn't wholy to blame, it may well be software DVD playback is contributing to a lot of this noise. I tried WinDVD and that was much the same as Power DVD. Hardware accelerted decoding didn't make a difference off or on.

 

[Humate]

You are probably right

 

[deadsquirrel]

I will get it uploaded in about 3 hours when i get back from work. I will try and get a movie of what i mean if my digi camera can record them (havent got a clue).

As I mentioned to you on another thread, I had mine exchanged due to the sparkle 'feature' of the dell. Unfortunately, the second also had this effect. I have to say the way you describe it is excellent. I was trying to make some people over at the dell forum understand what im talking about and had no success. I still find it hard to believe that this is not counted as the number one problem with the dell. the banding is a non-issue but the coating is terrible. I, as mentioned before, have gotten used to it now, and I have to admit I really enjoy the screen. I have as of yet not played one game on it (its on my 1.4gig server) but this will change soon. I cant wait playing RA2 with the widescreen fix.

Anyway, I think Humate is wholly correct in informing people of the flaws as well as the strength of a product. There is nothing worst then firing the monitor up for the first time after hearing nothing but biased (fanatical?) praise only to realise you cant stand the coating. (not on this forum i might add)

I would appreciate it if you could upload this gradient you are talking about so that I can check for noise. Funnily enough, I remember seeing some noise on the monitor I had exchanged, and never saw it on this one, so maybe its a faulty monitor? upload it and I will give you an honest answer.

 

[marscay]

Agreed if you stare at the screen from 3 inches away I'm sure it will look carp

What I would say is asking somebody on a forum isn't the greatest about such issues, everyone’s level of tollerance to these issues is different and qualatative not quantative.

HEADRAT

i agree 100% with this, so many things with technology are relative to the user operating the equipment, something which really bothers one person may not affect another 100 with the same problem.

anyway i took delivery of a 2407 RA03 today having used a 2005 for the past couple of years.

so far i've gotta say the monitor is a massive improvement over it's 20" brother in terms of black reproduction and overall crispness & colour placement. I also had some backlight leeding problems with the 2005 which thankfully are completely gone with my RA03 2407.

no banding @ all in desktop mode.

In terms of noise for movie playback i agree to some extent about this monitor, i never rated the 2005 for movies and although i have only played a couple it still seems a bit short on quality for a movie screen. I bought this monitor strictly for gaming and desktop use as i play movies on my hdtv in the lounge so this aspect really doesn't affect me @ all .....also won't be using a 360 or ps3 with it so again any shortcomings in these areas i'm not concerned with.

for 500 notes i'm stoked with this screen and think it's a steal, now just gotta pawn my x1900xtx for a 8800

 

[AWBbox]

I just got my 2407. I love it to bits!! Well worth the money that's for sure. Zero banding, crystal clear display. However when playing movies, anything green is pretty noisy. I'm not going to be using it for watching films too much, and I did use The Matrix to test it with (certainly a film using more green than most ) I'm testing it on a pretty poor PC at the moment, new bits and pieces will be here soon to complement my new purchase properly. I'm dead chuffed with this monitor! I've rotated it and I can fit nearly the whole OCuk forum page on it! 'Scuse me if it doesn't sound that amazing, but before this I used a naff 17" (not saying all 17" screens are naff of course ) and the difference just blows me away! Go out and get your Dell 2407WFP today

 

[Humate]

I would appreciate it if you could upload this gradient you are talking about so that I can check for noise.

gradient:


save that to you desktop. Open it in internet explorer. Go into gaming or multimedia mode, and take a look at the gradient. Resize the window and reduce it to fill lets say 1/4 of your screen and the noise gets a lot worse. Then get yourself back into desktop mode. You will still notice the noise a meter from your screen.

I fear however this is a pointless exercise, as sitting like 3 meters away you wont notice it. So igors is probably right as i am not well informed on movie noise. I did it merely as an exercise to try and ascertain why movies were so noisey (according to my eyes) and whether this had anything to do with the banding. It would seem to me that the banding and noise go hand in hand as it is far worse in gaming and multimedia mode on that gradient than it is in desktop mode. In order to cover myself, i will say that this banding talk is rubbish, you really dont notice it in normal use, even though i can still clearly see it on that gradient in desktop mode. However, perhaps the noise is a result of the banding, in which case it does make a noticeable impact on movies in the form of noise. Would there be any logic in that? i have just made this all up, so maybe igors or someone more informed may shed some light on that. Or perhaps badass is right and its an overdrive issue?

At the end of each of my posts i now (although in the past i did not) feel the urge to encourage people to buy the monitor (but with the knowledge of what some people see/notice/feel about it). Hopefully this will protect me from the fanboys

 

[fish99]

Even though I don't have a 2407 I tried this out of curiosity, since the 2007 does have the same chip that causes the banding. In image viewer the gradient is horrible for some reason, but leaving that aside, when viewed in firefox I get a pretty nice smooth gradient in desktop mode, and of course the horrible banding in multimedia/gaming mode. In desktop mode I can see vertical bands, but that's because 256 shades of grey are being spread over 1680 (in my case) pixels, so each colour occupies a 6 pixel wide band.

I do see AR coating sparkle of course, since again the 2007 has the same coating as the 2407, but I don't see anything I would call noise. Is the noise stationary? Seems very odd to get noise on a still picture. Would you describe it as similar to dithering?

The movie noise I've been talking about is part of the movie, you can take a screenshot, zoom in and see it in detail. It's caused partly by mpeg compression, probably partly by the way the film is shot, partly by software decoding, and then exaggerated by the sharpness and brightness of the screen, and probably also by the overdrive used in modern TFTs.

 

[deadsquirrel]

Humate, Just to let you know that i tried your gradient here at work on an NEC 1770NX and the noise is exactly the same as on my 2407 if not worst. Strange. would be interesting to see if CRT has the same problem and other makes of TFT?

 

[Pandobear]

desktop background

I have had this screen for around a year now and am absolutely delighted with it, took me a week or so to get used to the size for games playing, was sat too close and felt sick, but after that absolutely brilliant.

Anyways the reason that I am posting is that I notice that the deal of the week shows the screen with exactly the same background screen as I have on mine, the lovely evangeline lily from lost. The widescreen backgrounds are found at widescreenbabes.com for anyone interested

 

[Humate]

Is the noise stationary? Seems very odd to get noise on a still picture. Would you describe it as similar to dithering?

no the noise moves around rapidly. Im not sure what dithering is so i did a quick google and i dont really understand it but dont think its that no. Its deffinately noise that moves rapidly around dark greys on gradients like the one i posted. If it happens on that NEC then igors is probably right and such noise exists on all panels, which has also suprised me greatly that you can get noise on a static image. Its not something u can take a screenshot of and then zoom in and look at.

 

[PiKe]

FWIW theres a dither option in the engineers menu, thats on by default I believe.

 

[kostasvl]

Hello everyone,

Could someone try warcraft 3 with the 2407WFP and give me an opinion please? What happens when the game runs at 1024x768 or 1280x1024? Do you get the black bars by default? What about other resolutions?

Hmm, has anyone tried something like ZSnes or Project64?

As you can tell, I'm very tempted by this monitor. I've been a good boy this year and Santa is welcome to stay here

Thanks a lot.

Kostas