Homosexuality

[Psyk]

And how some people dislike the term, sexual preferance, as its not something they choose

That's ridiculous. I prefer to have sex with women over men. Hence it is my sexual preference. I didn't choose to prefer women, but the fact still remains that I would rather have sex with a woman than a man.

It's a genetic flaw. Reproduction of gay/lesbians won't produce offspring, obviously.

Maybe it's true that most gay people in this day and age won't produce offspring, but some people think that if there are too many gays it will be the end of the world since no one will reproduce.

But imagine everyone in the entire world suddenly turned gay. Do you think everyone will sit idly by getting old and not notice there are no kids around? Sure people won't have the urge to do the act that produces children, but many people will still want to have children. Family units would have course be very different (eg. two daddies, two mummies) but I very much doubt everyone would just let the human race die out because they don't fancy the opposite sex.

 

[Van Hellseek]

even if it is genetic, i think there are plenty of men who choose it as a lifestyle and not because of their genes; men who would geneticaly be straight, but for whatever reason choose the homo lifestyle - (for instance in theatre culture in particular it seems 'trendy' to be gay).

so even if it's genetic (which i personally don't believe) there would be plenty of people not interested in a cure because they want the lifestyle of being part of gay culture.

also i think there are some people who are just gay for the attention. they make such a big deal about being gay, it seems to me this is because there isn't anything else even vaguely interesting about them.

so what it comes down to is that genetic or not, psychology is the dominant factor here imo.

 

[benjo plz.]

If such a treatment existed and wasn't forced on individuals

There is only one treatment (that i'm aware of) which is avoidance therapy, which is essentially classical conditioning.

 

[Brizzles]

Is it wrong to want grand children? No. If you children turn out guy then you're genetic line ends there. So parents should be allowed the choice of screening "gay embryos"

I'm as straight as a snooker cue, ( and there is nothing wrong with being gay ) and my family tree dies with me.

I have lived my life ,and will continue, without the pressure/obligation to reproduce.

I have been a parent to a step daughter for ten+ years.

Its only a name.

 

[Heaven Can Wait]

There was a Penn Radio broadcast on this subject the other day, If your interested it would be worth a listen.

 

[badgermonkey]

Intersting question,

However, it was marred by you referring to homosexuality as a deficiency.

So you lose

 

[pyro]

I think gays feel that what they are doing is only natural, and would probably just laught at the idea of going streight.

Is it wrong to want grand children? No. If you children turn out guy then you're genetic line ends there. So parents should be allowed the choice of screening "gay embryos"

Is it wrong to want grandchildren? No, it is wrong to demand grandchildren, on way or another. In any way, turning gay doesn't mean you can't have kids, I know a few lesbian couples that want to have kids of their own, how much I wish they picked me to do the deed...

 

[MookJong]

Is it wrong to want grand children?

No, but it's wrong to expect or demand them, it's your childrens choice if they want to have them.

Screening for homosexuals is a dangerous idea, it implys that it is wrong and something to be stamped out. I can understand screening for diseases but homosexuality does not effect somones health so I don't really see why you would.

 

[alexakasloth]

Screening for homosexuals is a dangerous idea, it implys that it is wrong and something to be stamped out.

If someone believes that then why can't they allow a screening for the 'gay gene'? Who are we to say that homosexuality is right/wrong. For god sakes, let people have their opinions even if they are negative!

 

[krooton]

Not necessarily. For many characteristics there isn't one gene which controls them. There's no 'gene for tallness' for example, and no 'gene for length of legs'.

However, these traits are still determined genetically - they're just caused by the combined effect of dozens, hundreds or perhaps even thousands of genes. Similarly, if sexuality is genetic then it would probably be controlled by a large number of genes. It could be that those genes individually all contribute effects which make an individual more likely to reproduce, and it just happens that together they make you not fancy people of the opposite sex. The genes themselves don't die out (because they're succesful at getting passed on through other bodies) and so the behaviour persists - despite the fact that the number of homosexuals who reproduce is smaller than among other sexualities.

Also, you're assuming that homosexuals don't reproduce. It probably doesn't happen so much any more, but when being gay was considered more of a taboo it would be far from common for a gay man to get married and have kids, because that's what was expected of him.

Good post.

I don't like how homosexuality is viewed as a flaw/defect. Does being gay have a detrimental effect outside of the realms of social stigma? Nope.

In terms of species continuation, sure, if everyone were gay it would lower birthrates (or not as someone else theorised), but given the current numbers of gay people and the world's spiralling population issues, some people, however nasty it sounds, think that perhaps homosexuality is nature's own way of counteracting our 'plague-like' grip on this planet.

To quote Jurassic Park: "Nature always finds a way."

Obviously to view homosexuality solely as a means to cut birthrates is harsh in terms of the personal/social aspects of human life, but it is as plausible as anything else.

 

[SunaseIPs]

Surely there is an option and a cure not to pursue this activity and live a lie.

 

[Arcade Fire]

Surely there is an option and a cure not to pursue this activity and live a lie.

You know that feeling you get, when you've been repeatedly smashing your head against a wall, and you look up to find that the wall hasn't moved one jot?

Yeah.

 

[MookJong]

even if it is genetic, i think there are plenty of men who choose it as a lifestyle and not because of their genes; men who would geneticaly be straight, but for whatever reason choose the homo lifestyle - (for instance in theatre culture in particular it seems 'trendy' to be gay).

I had to laugh at that, so in your mind being around the theatre can make you gay, you forgot to mention fashion design and Art which can also turn you to men lol!!! Your view is a little Victorian to say the least, could it not be the fact that gay men find these jobs more appealing and so are drawn to them? Have you never noticed you also get butch Lesbians drawn to manly things?

In Native American culture there was a name (which escapes me at the moment) given to certain men in the tribe who did not partake in hunting and manly activities. Instead they were allowed to stay at home and help the women to cook, make clothing and care for the young. When you read about these men it is quite clear what is being described are homosexuals. So it has been around since the dawn of time and as shown has been understood and accepted by other cultures as normal.

 

[stuppy]

Just because a guy is gay doesn't mean he cannot have kids. Has nobody seen Queer as Folk?

Gay guy gives Lesbian friend his sperm, gets preggers - has kids. They both look after the child much like seperated parents would.

My family name will end with me since I have only a sister who is married. I still entertain the idea of having children someday, even if I wouldn't be in a reletionship with a woman. There is always a way.

I dunno about the gene thing. I guess its possible. I can't remember a time when I haven't known myself as being gay. Giving parents the option to decide whether or not their child should be gay is very stupid. Especially in this day and age.

I hope one day that parents of new born kids do not assume their child is going to be straight. "Coming Out" will be a thing of the past hopefully.

 

[alexthecheese]

Just out of interest, what evidence is there that it's genetic or down to environmental circumstances?

Personally I think it's a genetic thing, as even animals are known to be bummers, aren't they?

 

[krooton]

Just out of interest, what evidence is there that it's genetic or down to environmental circumstances?

Personally I think it's a genetic thing, as even animals are known to be bummers, aren't they?

There's no hard proof for either side, but the antis seem to think that no proof of one equals the other being right

 

[AthlonTom]

Been watching X-Men 3 have we?

fini

Gay ppl are mutants to be shot at with plastic assault rifles to cure them, later on however, over a game of chess in the park they realise they're still a little gay?

 

[alexthecheese]

There's no hard proof for either side, but the antis seem to think that no proof of one equals the other being right

I think that same principle of evidence holds true for nearly all arguments!

Personally I would be surprised if it were not a genetical 'trait', as I don't really understand how environmental influences could change such a core part of being human/dog/rabbit/lesser spotted weavil or whatever you are.

 

[locutus12]

If someone believes that then why can't they allow a screening for the 'gay gene'? Who are we to say that homosexuality is right/wrong. For god sakes, let people have their opinions even if they are negative!

fine, if were going to screen for things that are not considered an illness under medical and psychological determinations then we should start screening out ginger haired kids as the parents may not want a ginger child, maybe if he`s going to be short, we can alter that in the womb, maybe change the kids eye colour, it doesnt stop.

you start screening for things that are not deemed as illnesses and it becomes immoral. I personally couldn't give a flying **** if you think its an illness, the Law does not and hence it will never be screened for in this country untill that definition is altered in some way.

It's a genetic flaw.

proof please instead of a mindless comment.

I believe that it's social. Look back through history, Julius Ceasar was known for giving it (and his opponents would have you believe taking it) up the buttox.

which Julius Ceasar would that be ? there are two

There is only one treatment (that i'm aware of) which is avoidance therapy, which is essentially classical conditioning.

its also a very failed therapy, the deep south USA christian movements have been trying and failing with it for over twenty years.



i would like to share something with you all since were on the general topic of homosexuality.

"Within the typical secondary school curriculum, homosexuals do not exist. They are 'nonpersons' in the finest Stalinist sense. They have fought no battles, held no offices, explored nowhere, written no literature, built nothing, invented nothing and solved no equations. The lesson to the heterosexual student is abundantly clear: homosexuals do nothing of consequence. To the homosexual student, the message has even greater power: no one who has ever felt as you do has done anything worth mentioning." -Gerald Unks,

And yet... Famous homosexuals include:

Alexander the Great
*Macedonian Ruler, 300 B.C.
Socrates
*Greek Philosopher, 400 B.C.
Sappho
*Greek Woman Poet, 600 B.C.
Hadrian
*Roman Emperor, 1st-2nd c.
Richard the Lionhearted
*English King, 12th c.
Saladin
*Sultan of Egypt and Syria
Desiderius Erasmus
*Dutch Monk, Philosopher
Francis Bacon
*English statesman, author
Frederick the Great
*King of Prussia
Lord Byron
*English poet, 18th c.
Walt Whitman
*U.S. poet, author, 19th c.
Oscar Wilde
*Irish author, 19th c.
Marcel Proust
*French author, 20th c.
Colette
*French author, 20th c.
Gertrude Stein
*U.S. poet, author, 20th c.
Alice B. Toklas
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Federico Garcia Lorca
*Spanish author, 20th c.
Cole Porter
*U.S. composer, 20th c.
Virginia Woolf
*English author, 20th c.
Leonard Bernstein
*U.S. composer, 20th c.
Pope Julius III
*1550-1555
T.E. Lawrence
*English soldier, author, 20th c.
Jean Cocteau
*French writer, director, 20th c.
Charles Laughton
*English actor, 20th c.
Marguerite Yourcenar
*Belgian author, 20th c.
Tennessee Williams
*U.S. Playwright, 20th c.
James Baldwin
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Andy Warhol
*U.S. artist, 20th c.
Michelangelo
*Italian artist, 15th c.
Leonardo Da Vinci
*Ital. Artist, scientist, 15th c.
Christopher Marlowe
*Eng. Playwright, 16th c.
Herman Melville
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Horatio Alger, Jr.
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Tchaikovsky
*Russian composer, 19th c.
Willa Cather
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Amy Lowell
*U.S. author, 19th & 20th c.
E.M. Forster
*English author, 20th c.
John M. Keynes
*English economist, 20th c.
Ludwig Wittgenstein
*Australian mathematician, 20th c.
Bessie Smith
*U.S. singer, 20th c.
Noel Coward
*English playwright, 20th c.
Christopher Isherwood
*English author, 20th c.
Pier Paolo Pasolini
*Italian film director, 20th c.
Yukio Mishima
*Japanese author, 20th c.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*U.S. stateswoman, 20th c.
Julius Caesar
*Roman Emperor, 100-44 B.C.
Augustus Caesar
*Roman Emperor
Harvey Milk
*U.S. politician, 20th c.
Bayard Rustin
*U.S. Civil Rights activist, 20th c.
James I
*English King, 16th-17th c.
Queen Anne
*English Queen, 18th c.
Marie Antoinette
*French Empress, 18th c.
Melissa Etheridge
*U.S. Rock Star, 20th c.
Pope Benedict IX
*1032-1044
May Sarton
*U.S. author, (1912 - 1995)
Edna Ferber
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Elton John
*English Rock Star, 20th c.
Margaret Fuller
*U.S. writer, educator, 20th c.
Montezuma II
*Aztec ruler, 16th c.
Peter the Great
*Russian Czar, 17th-18th c.
Langston Hughes
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Pope John XII
*955-964
Madame de Stael
*French writer, 17th-18th c.
Martina Navratilova
*U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
Greg Louganis
*U.S. Olympic swimmer, 20th c.
Billie Jean King
*U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
Roberta Achtenburg
*U.S. politician, 20th c.
Barney Frank
*U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
Gerry Studds
*U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
Hans Christian Andersen
*Danish author, 19th c.
Tom Dooley
*U.S. M.D. missionary, 20th c.
J. Edgar Hoover
*U.S. director of the FBI., 20th c.
Frida Kahlo
*Mexican artist, 20th c.
Suleiman the Magnificent
*Ottoman ruler, 15th c.
Rock Hudson
*U.S. actor, 20th c.
Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz
*Mexican author, 16th c.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
*U.S. author, 19th c.
Candace Gingrich
*Gay Rights activist, 20th c.
Margarethe Cammermeyer
*U.S. Army Colonel, 20th c.
Zoe Dunning
*U.S. Military Reservist, 20th c.
Tom Waddel
*U.S. M.D., Olympic star, 20th c.
Kate Millet
*U.S. author, 20th c.
Janis Joplin
*U.S. singer, 20th c.
Rudolf Nuryev
*Russian dancer, 20th c.
Waslaw Nijinsky
*Russian dancer, 20th c.
Ernst Röhm
*German Nazi leader, 20th c.
Dag Hammerskjold
*Swedish UN Secretary, 209th c.
Aristotle
*Greek philosopher, 384-322 B.C.
Paula Gunn Allen
*Native American author, 20th c.
Angela Davis
*U.S. political activist, 20th c.
June Jordan
*U.S. author, activist, 20th c.
Rainer Maria Rilke
*German poet, 20th c.
James Dean
*U.S. actor, 20th c.
Montgomery Clift
*U.S. actor, 20th c.
Baron VonSteuben
*German General, Valley Forge
Edward II
*English King, 14th c.

 

[krooton]

I think that same principle of evidence holds true for nearly all arguments!

Personally I would be surprised if it were not a genetical 'trait', as I don't really understand how environmental influences could change such a core part of being human/dog/rabbit/lesser spotted weavil or whatever you are.

I like to use the fact that most gay people have hetero parents to dampen certain aspects of the nuture theory.