Soldato
Alien vs Preditor (playing as marine) made me kack my pants, and F.E.A.R had it's momentsMr Latte said:
Whats the Story. Little Change in Almost 30 Years of Home Console Gaming
- Thread starter Mr Latte
- Start date
Soldato
Would be good idea, and ya know its probably the way games are going to go in the future. Dont they say the games industry is bigger than Hollywood?
So why would it not be the next step in gaming?
TV license...........Can we say Gaming License
Mick
So why would it not be the next step in gaming?
TV license...........Can we say Gaming License
Mick
Mr Latte, i like your thinking. I like to use the example of the PC game max payne 2, i thought that had a brilliant, harrowing and emotional storyline, while having awesome gameplay. Obviously games such as Final Fantasy 7 / 8 are the best example of character development, im a massive fan of those games but some arent, mainly due to the gameplay i guess, i love it though.
Psyk said:
Nowadays everyhing is cinematic, 8 buttons, hours of plot infested gameplay. I prefer the pick up and play more arcadey stuff but there's less of it around nowadsys.
I'd take Metal Slug over the latest fancy xbox first/third walking around shooting game any day
I'd say Dreamfall : The Longest Journey has a great storyline with (roughly) traditional adventure game play. Silent Hill 2 also excels in this area with survival horror play. I think for the most part you are right though.
I think it's partly because the people making the games (or perhaps funding them) don't seem to have much of a range of interest beyond a few obvious reference points.
I think it's partly because the people making the games (or perhaps funding them) don't seem to have much of a range of interest beyond a few obvious reference points.
There are a few games out that have well written and interesting stories, consider the amount of games released each year compared to the amount of books released, the percentage is probably about the same. I don't want games to mimmick something thet are not. Weekly episodic games are IMO a terrible idea, a lot of people will finish a full game in around a week or so, why should we only be allowed 2hrs a week? I'd be put off startring something that may never get finished.
Also consider a story that gets dragged out due it being particularly popular.
No thanks!
Also consider a story that gets dragged out due it being particularly popular.
No thanks!
People love to say how important a story is, but the reality is that many people DON'T want a story. There are plenty of games that try, take the MGS series. That is one set of games that focus greatly on the characters and the narative. But how many people find it more annoying than fun, with all those cut scenes etc getting in the way of the gameplay.
Most games have a balance. They try to appeal to as many people as possible (as they have to).
Personally, if I want a good story, I don't want a game to interfere, so I read a book. People used to say 'interactive movies' where the future, then people learned. Saying things haven't changed in 30 years is sensationalist nonsense. 30 years ago did they match HL2 or Oblivion? No.
Most games have a balance. They try to appeal to as many people as possible (as they have to).
Personally, if I want a good story, I don't want a game to interfere, so I read a book. People used to say 'interactive movies' where the future, then people learned. Saying things haven't changed in 30 years is sensationalist nonsense. 30 years ago did they match HL2 or Oblivion? No.
Some games have had good stories on home computers like the ZX Spectrum C64 etc way back in the early eighties and although computers these were essientially used like consoles. Loads of games appeared that were text based with very poor graphicabilities they actually relied more on the story to carry the game.
Though im feeling regards some replies that perhaps some of you are right and that stories in games may never actually improve that much but at the same time i feel the industry is in a phase of finally changing and not for our benifit with games having better stories or characters but because episodic content (EC) is a possible commerical life line for developers.
Episodic content wouldnt be weekly possible monthly or bi monthly as developers would need time to create the content and have it tested.
Theirs also nothing stopping games having chaptered content on additional discs, Half-Life 2 was an example. From a developers point of vew you continue your developemnt but your pay day comes around a lot sooner rather than having a title being developed for upto 2-3 years before it launches and the money starts rolling in...
Game development isnt getting any cheaper so studios may continue to look at posibilities like episodic content or increase the playability of games with downloadable content.
Take GOW for example give me a new weapons pack that includes a flame thrower, perhaps a freeze gun and dish it up with a new level or two charge me a fiver and i will gladly play through the game again with the new weapons... Well Cliffy ?
GOW is a fine example of how the market is also changing by releasing a game you get your initial sales from those that have been anticipating it then you wil get others that wernt that interested but because of the HYPE and possible reviews will then get it and then finally you give the title an additional push by offering FREE additional content in the game.
Which quite frankly perhaps could have been in the game to start with, the difference though is your giving your game more games press and making it look a more attractive purchase by offering additional play for nothing...
Though im feeling regards some replies that perhaps some of you are right and that stories in games may never actually improve that much but at the same time i feel the industry is in a phase of finally changing and not for our benifit with games having better stories or characters but because episodic content (EC) is a possible commerical life line for developers.
Episodic content wouldnt be weekly possible monthly or bi monthly as developers would need time to create the content and have it tested.
Theirs also nothing stopping games having chaptered content on additional discs, Half-Life 2 was an example. From a developers point of vew you continue your developemnt but your pay day comes around a lot sooner rather than having a title being developed for upto 2-3 years before it launches and the money starts rolling in...
Game development isnt getting any cheaper so studios may continue to look at posibilities like episodic content or increase the playability of games with downloadable content.
Take GOW for example give me a new weapons pack that includes a flame thrower, perhaps a freeze gun and dish it up with a new level or two charge me a fiver and i will gladly play through the game again with the new weapons... Well Cliffy ?
GOW is a fine example of how the market is also changing by releasing a game you get your initial sales from those that have been anticipating it then you wil get others that wernt that interested but because of the HYPE and possible reviews will then get it and then finally you give the title an additional push by offering FREE additional content in the game.
Which quite frankly perhaps could have been in the game to start with, the difference though is your giving your game more games press and making it look a more attractive purchase by offering additional play for nothing...
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Mr Latte said:
Not quite sure where you are going with this now. Are you suggesting that games developers should hold back finished parts of a game? Is this supposed to make modern gaming better?
A lot of people don't like playing more than than one or two games at once which is another big downer for episodic content. The only way I would consider it is if all sections coul be downloaded from day one and I had the option to play through it whenever I wanted.
If a developer really wants a story based game then I do agree that it should be well written and absorbing but the downside of a developer spending that much effort on a story is the inability of the gamer to then deviate from a linear path.
I think you have got sucked into the hype surrounding episodic content. To be honest, I think it's a fad, one that will pass. Here is why.
Financially they don't work.
The more traditional system is make a full game, then add-on/expansion packs. It isn't anything new, its been around for many many years. The difference now is they are making the add-ons stand alone. In real episodic gaming, all instalments are (roughly) the same size, price etc, and this is real hard for some genres in particular. The problem, is it takes ages to make the first one, and you are essentially making many small games rather one big one. It costs the same or more to make separate ones, and then relies on people to buy all of them. The issue is they might get the first, perhaps second, but sales fall off. All it takes is another game to come along and make people forget about the first and they have lost too much. It is really hard to make a couple of hour game that grabs you and makes you scream for more like a 10 hour game.
Look at it this way. Its a balance, will the cheaper price sell more copies or will people stop buying the episodes before they get half way. So far, its the later.
Financially they don't work.
The more traditional system is make a full game, then add-on/expansion packs. It isn't anything new, its been around for many many years. The difference now is they are making the add-ons stand alone. In real episodic gaming, all instalments are (roughly) the same size, price etc, and this is real hard for some genres in particular. The problem, is it takes ages to make the first one, and you are essentially making many small games rather one big one. It costs the same or more to make separate ones, and then relies on people to buy all of them. The issue is they might get the first, perhaps second, but sales fall off. All it takes is another game to come along and make people forget about the first and they have lost too much. It is really hard to make a couple of hour game that grabs you and makes you scream for more like a 10 hour game.
Look at it this way. Its a balance, will the cheaper price sell more copies or will people stop buying the episodes before they get half way. So far, its the later.
Maybe it's just me but I feel a little cheated by the likes of HL2, a cliffhanger at the end, loose ends all over the place and then hey presto, £15 to find out what happens next....oh hang on make that £30..no another episode £45 etc etc.
If there is more story to tell they should have told it within the main game or waited to tell it in HL3. HL2 could end up costing in excess of £100 before we have a clue whats really going on there. I personally didn't think it was worth £30 in the first place but that's another story.
If there is more story to tell they should have told it within the main game or waited to tell it in HL3. HL2 could end up costing in excess of £100 before we have a clue whats really going on there. I personally didn't think it was worth £30 in the first place but that's another story.
My thoughts are pulling away from just stories or improved storylines / characters. I still feel games from a single player aspect have not changed much in almost 3 generations.
My minds in two places because i see the internet/online being manipulated to move gaming forwards but possibly also for the benifit of the studios and their profits.
I think perhaps game studios can see this era of "Download Content" as an option for additional revenue by holding back certain things in a games initial release for download later to offering more content / features / for additional costs.
Episodic content is only one such way it could be done and the reason some of you are against the idea is because its really never really been done before. I still feel a game could be done and be updated regulary, you need a storyline like "A" getting to "B" be it "Dungeons & Dragons" to "Star Trek" you create the situation for the story and regulary move the story and characters along. Im actually surprised someone like "Cameron / Brookheimer / Spielberg" or other worthy producers directors in the industry havnt tackled the idea but then really its only now that a typical box connected to a Tv in the living room with internet access is becoming the norm isnt it.
Sony / Nintento / Microsoft want as many of us online as possible because they know they will get more money out of us be it in older generation games using virtual arcade or Live and not forgetting Sonys proposed online features. The other thing is when you get your target audience really high then chances are the advertising will begin to increase which is one area we dont care for but bound to be done.
Take Live for example MS are touting 5 million users, thats a goldmine for advertising prodcts/services on a global scale or regional area.
I ask where is the internet and consoles going to take us over the next 5 years? Does anything i mention seem likely?
My minds in two places because i see the internet/online being manipulated to move gaming forwards but possibly also for the benifit of the studios and their profits.
I think perhaps game studios can see this era of "Download Content" as an option for additional revenue by holding back certain things in a games initial release for download later to offering more content / features / for additional costs.
Episodic content is only one such way it could be done and the reason some of you are against the idea is because its really never really been done before. I still feel a game could be done and be updated regulary, you need a storyline like "A" getting to "B" be it "Dungeons & Dragons" to "Star Trek" you create the situation for the story and regulary move the story and characters along. Im actually surprised someone like "Cameron / Brookheimer / Spielberg" or other worthy producers directors in the industry havnt tackled the idea but then really its only now that a typical box connected to a Tv in the living room with internet access is becoming the norm isnt it.
Sony / Nintento / Microsoft want as many of us online as possible because they know they will get more money out of us be it in older generation games using virtual arcade or Live and not forgetting Sonys proposed online features. The other thing is when you get your target audience really high then chances are the advertising will begin to increase which is one area we dont care for but bound to be done.
Take Live for example MS are touting 5 million users, thats a goldmine for advertising prodcts/services on a global scale or regional area.
I ask where is the internet and consoles going to take us over the next 5 years? Does anything i mention seem likely?
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Sweetloaf said:
Ah, so your a victim but you DID buy the game and then the update so youve helped to its commerical success, this means your a cause of your own problem and for the developer theyve tested the water found it successfull so its going to happen again and then others will follow in its success.
Sweetloaf your missing the point.
Visuals/Audio is ommited
Space invaders came on a cartridge you completed it (think it was 100 levels actually) and then it was over. Hows that any different to any other cartridge game or optical format up untill current time?
No EC and no DC therfore a linear once played finished experience untill the next individual release for the series. In this sense thats how games really havnt changed.
Visuals/Audio is ommited
Space invaders came on a cartridge you completed it (think it was 100 levels actually) and then it was over. Hows that any different to any other cartridge game or optical format up untill current time?
No EC and no DC therfore a linear once played finished experience untill the next individual release for the series. In this sense thats how games really havnt changed.
I think a great idea would be to play and compete online for downloadable bonuses, as long as a game was complete on release and offered genuine rewards for winning tournaments or live events.
A problem with games having extra free or unlockable content is that no matter what console manufacturers tell you, they don't want you playing the same game for too long, it may stop you buying another. This situation is likely to become more noticable as companies lose more and more on hardware. I think that AAA titles will become shorter and shorter.
A problem with games having extra free or unlockable content is that no matter what console manufacturers tell you, they don't want you playing the same game for too long, it may stop you buying another. This situation is likely to become more noticable as companies lose more and more on hardware. I think that AAA titles will become shorter and shorter.
Soldato
Condemned is still my fave game,, it was atmospheric, had a character you could empathise with, not just an in your face blastfest all the time, great story
The future is not going to be radically different for a while at least.
People will still buy games from shops, but what will be more common is getting extras online. Expansion packs, both large and small, will be the norm online. Games will come down in price to be £30 or £35 and they make up the rest through microtransactions.
I do think Live Arcade and the like will be huge tho'.
People will still buy games from shops, but what will be more common is getting extras online. Expansion packs, both large and small, will be the norm online. Games will come down in price to be £30 or £35 and they make up the rest through microtransactions.
I do think Live Arcade and the like will be huge tho'.
Mr Latte said:Sweetloaf your missing the point.
Your original point was about shallow storylines and characters wasn't it?
In those screenshots the basic premise is the same, Aliens attack, you shoot them while hiding behind destructable blocks, they are the same game but the delivery of that premise is vastly different. I actually think they are a decent representation of how gaming has changed.
Aside from the visual/audio aspect GOW has downloadable content, (or will) It also has a story and characters oh and is probably a lot cheaper than Space Invaders was at the time.
Maybe I have missed your point...what was it again?
Oh and I bought HL2 but haven't bought the further episodes and won't.
Sweetloaf said:
Yes it was but it also covered what the nature of a game was, a beginning, an ending. No additional features being possible or updates on the original purchase. The reason stories was mentioned was as an example for discussion to how gaming hasnt really changed and if anything via some form of EC some games could totally change.
The thread is actually more about how gaming may continue to change because of "Download Content" be it in "Episodic Storylines" for stronger characters or limited only to the creativity of the developers in new weapons, tracks, cars, characters, particulary new mini sub games or new features added later. Essientially moving on from what we see today in progress with multiplayer perspective of maps etc...
Games could now be considered and designed from the offset to actually allow such features as DC or EC in continued stories chapters. Thats the difference thats going to be possible now or when online is a standard feature.
Take a racing game for example:
Why cant an additional pack arrive thats nothing to do with new cars or tracks yet offer loads more gameplay.
I suggest additional mini games using the original games elements:
Drag races
Cone challenges
Car control challenges
Differnet track conditions, rain, sleet or nighttime racing fresh elements on current in game tracks.
Theirs no reason why games cannot become more creative or designed allowing to be updated with exciting new creativity...