Martial Arts

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A good friend and myself are looking to take up some form of martial art, mainly to stay healthy, but also for the fun of it.

Basically we have no idea what type to choose, classic karate, judo, tae quondo (sp?), kickboxing... the list is endless

From what my dad's told me about judo, that doesn't really seem the interesting one as it's more about rolls etc, but I'm open to suggestions.

So what would you suggest?
 
Soldato
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I've been studying traditional taekwondo (WTF) for a year and have really enjoyed it. My fitness is through the roof (for example, playing five-a-side for an hour everyone else starts to gas out whereas I can sprint around until the end of the match) and it's great fun now we've started sparring :)

Basically, what do you want out of a martial art?

The best advice I can give you is to go and see/try out a few and see what looks/feels the best. Most decent clubs will offer you a free or discounted first session :)

Your choices are a striking art or a grappling art or a mixture of the two.
 
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IceBus said:
traditional taekwondo (WTF)

I now feel like a complete geek for laughing at the name of your federation. The one that I had a few lessons with was affiliated with the ITF.

fen730, what are the options in your local area? Most will give the first lesson free so you could always go along to a few and see what appeals most, if you aren't going for any particular purpose then see which offers the most on the social side maybe.

I'd definitely consider Aikido if you have a good school near you as it is very effective as far as martial arts go and doesn't rely on huge amounts of fitness, it does combine grappling and striking to an extent. Really though your options are more likely to be decided by what classes you can get to than the potential benefits of the martial art itself I'd imagine. :)
 
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I have most classes thanks to a large leisure centre, hence the choice really, I could go to a few tasters, but I'd like to narrow them down first (there must be like 10-15+ types available, and that's just the ones I know of.

Thanks for the help !

Richard
 
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Could you list the types and then possibly someone can give you a recommendation based on the options available and possibly even on whether the school is good. It also depends partly on your personality/physical ability as you might not be as suited to a striking martial art (usually more agressive) as you would a grappling one or one that uses the opponents strength against them such as Aikido. :)
 
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semi-pro waster said:
I now feel like a complete geek for laughing at the name of your federation. The one that I had a few lessons with was affiliated with the ITF.

Nothing wrong with laughing at the name, but it's the federation that goes to the Olympics ;)

Have a look on YouTube at 'what is tae kwon do' ;)

Our federation is really TTA - Traditional Taekwondo (www.nottinghamtaekwondo.com)

As has been said, if you give us a list we should hopefully be able to recommend a few.

People I know have done jiu jitsu, aikido (I'd also recommend it as it's a martial art I'd like to try in a few years time), ninjitsu and judo.
 
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semi-pro waster said:
Could you list the types and then possibly someone can give you a recommendation based on the options available and possibly even on whether the school is good. It also depends partly on your personality/physical ability as you might not be as suited to a striking martial art (usually more agressive) as you would a grappling one or one that uses the opponents strength against them such as Aikido. :)
Well I'm 6'4", so I doubt Aikido would be suited to me :D

Physically I'm pretty strong, and training at the gym to become stronger (will use the gym to increase strength and the martial art for fitness).

As for classes, this is the list at the leisure center, but I'll take a look around the leaflets, and guys in town always asking for sign ups next time I'm in.

Definitely seen Taekwondo leaflets around as well as others, so don't feel the need to list just those here.
 
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IceBus said:
Nothing wrong with laughing at the name, but it's the federation that goes to the Olympics ;)

Going to the Olympics a good way of getting one up on the people laughing at the name. :D Nice video although there is swearing due to the song in the background if that matters.

I've not done any martial arts for years but I used to do Shotokan Karate and Aikido for a fair spell, I did try Judo, Wing Chun Kung Fu and Taekwando for a few lessons each.

Aikido could still be suited to you fen739, I was probably about 5'10" when I was doing it (6'4" now) but since it isn't an option it doesn't really matter too much. Of the options there I'd probably pick the traditional karate although be aware that it isn't necessarily going to be excellent for self-defence since most street fights are relatively quick and dirty, usually involving some grappling. Other than that Tai Ju Tsu Kai sounds interesting as Ju-Jitsu is quite an effective base. Taekwando is also worth going along to a few classes for as it was a really enjoyable activity when I tried it but unfortunately the club never got more lessons on the go. :)
 
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I did Tae kwonDo for a while (ITF) but then discovered Lau Gar Kung Fu (Chinese Kickboxing). I found it to be much more balanced in terms of fighting, as I found TKD to be mainly leg based fighting.
Once you learn to 'Blitz' the opponant, the trophys start to come in on the competition circuit. :D
 
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IceBus said:
I've been studying traditional taekwondo (WTF)

Historically and traditionally, the ITF (international taekwon-do federation) founded by General Choi Hong Hi is the original federation of Taekwon-do.

I personally recommend TKD if you are looking to get fit and want to enjoy yourself.
 
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panthro said:
Historically and traditionally, the ITF (international taekwon-do federation) founded by General Choi Hong Hi is the original federation of Taekwon-do.

I personally recommend TKD if you are looking to get fit and want to enjoy yourself.

I know... but I study traditional taekwondo under the TTA - http://www.tta-taekwondo.co.uk/

Good little quote from our Grand Master TK Loh:

"All martial arts are like different paths going to the top of the mountain. Some paths are more flowery, so they take you round and around the mountain; others are more direct. What's important to each individual is that they should do the martial art in terms of focusing their mind and knowing their body."
 
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A forum member Dual_XP_Jedi made a good post about various styles a while back -



Styles

Tae Kwando

Okay i studied this art primarily because my friend was doing it and i wanted to use my 6 foot frame better at range. Having studied it beyond green (only graded so far then got fed up with the stupid mini belts) i can say the following;

Its a system of kicking and punching which is deeply flawed. Its really a sport, its not good for combat and its not good for the street. It has some lovely kicks but anyone who knows fighting will tell you instantly you would not kick about the groin in the street - thus most moves it teaches = dangerous to try in a combat environment.

Its good for flexibility and fitness but thats it. It has deep flaws in terms of blocking technique and also sparring does not allow many correct responses thus encourages ppl to think the moves are more effective than they are. EG cannot block a kick with your elbow or knee and cannot counter a leg clash with a butt, elbow or punch.

Conclusion : Dont bother its simply too flawed and dependant on foot speed with little real street value.

Kick Boxing

This is completely dependant on the four improper basics. This means it relies on what a style should not - it uses speed, strength, height, range. Two of those you are born with - poor core elements to rely on.

Its all about developing your speed and strength and using powerful kicks and punches to get your opponent to be too damaged to continue. Very little finesse in the art and have of the moves will get you in court on GBH. Poor street use in terms of bouncing and being able to control a situation. Also relies on quite long combat times.

Hardcore versions of this rely on your killing the nerves in your legs off - conditioning them. Note that also kick boxing had SERIOUS issues with boxers beating them in their own competitions so had to introduce a min no. of kicks per round rule. For this reason i regard this art as basic and flawed - how can a sole puncher beat kick boxing world champs otherwise?

Conclusion : Kick boxers are consistently beaten by boxers and JJ styles.

Kung Fu

My knowledge of this art is quite basic but i studied it to see what gains it could give me as a double black belt - what better moves / systems did it have?

It is a good art, it teaches good sparring, decent effective kicks nothing too flashy and the blocks are okay - not as good as JJ tho. It doesnt rely too much on the four basics and is suitable for smaller people. Its weapons are done earlier than black as i recall as well.

Conclusion : One of the better styles with not many weaknesses

Jitsu variants

The Compliant Art in every way. This system uses the core weaknesses of the body against your opponent no matter his strength or height or weight. Its excellent for smaller ppl as your lower centre of gravity works for you.

It uses excellent open and closed hand striking like ridge hands, web strikes, knuckle punches, chops etc to weaken your opponent for a throw into submission move. Its based on a 2 second encounter time - show me another art which can end the conflict in two seconds flat!

Tai Jitsu relies more on boxing and throwing than the purer JJ which relies on the kicks to sensible area's such as knee cap, groin, stomach as the weakener.

It will teach you left and right handed throwing by black and multiple person attack defenses using the opponents to shield you using the throws - by green you will competent enough to handle any attacker bar a specialist and by black you will be comfortable with two attackers.

The best thing about JJ is the blocking system, move and block never relies on the block, some VERY heavy blocks which can snap the arm etc. Good use of the knees and elbows also.

Typical encounter - Block, stun / weakener, throw into lock / choke / strangle / paralysing point.

Although sparring does exist and competitions the training more than gets you ready for multi style competitions, ground wrestling at end of each session makes it very good for brawls.

Conclusion : The best art i have studied and its way of flowing moves into each other gives you myriads of possible moves, it has no weakness i can see.

Its best point is the range of response you can just lock him up with no strikes to control him, you can inflict heavy pain no marks using pressure points, you can throw him, you can heavily strike him. Very good at anti weapon moves and is used by SWAT teams etc.

Does not rely on any physical attribute, brillant for women.

Karate

Various styles here from Shoto, Seidokhan to Wado Ryu etc.

If its a long stance reliant art its useless but its getting a lot more modern and good school with good teachers encourage street effectiveness.

Seidokhan in particular has good sparring and good range of attacking options. All i will say is the blocks are slightly worse than kung fu and 20% worse than JJ. No throws make it less effective but it does use hocks - tripping moves.

Shotokhan i found long stance based and ineffective

Wado Ryu having fought them i would rate similar to Seidokhan, good system just not the best there is.

Conclusion : Need a good teacher and school, its not much use as a doorman and reasonable on the street.


Overall Conclusion

I personally sought to find the best from each style and evaluate them against my style. I found ju jitsu practically impossible to beat, the blocks are world class to the stage no one could really hit me when i learned new styles without knowing their attack moves.This held up in full contact also.

No style should rely on those four cores of height, strength, speed, reach. a lot of them do - thus they are useless for women, small blokes and heavy people, you will get murdered in sparring and competitions cause you cannot get taller, get a longer fighting range etc.

Its important to have a range of response in terms of legally and in terms of your own philosophy the number of times i have used good pain moves which cause no damage to control abusive drunks is numerous. This is far superior to kicking them in the head and probably falling over cause you are drunk Mr Tae Kwando Also a throw is a far better way to disable someone rather than prolonged combat on the street, it also hurts to land on concrete with a dropped knee going into you


Thread -

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17302140&page=1&pp=30&highlight=martial+arts
 
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To be honest, this discussions about styles, is neither here nor there for a beginner. If you become proficient in any martial art, you would expect to be able to handle an attacker on the street (ie self defensive applications rather than combat against another martial artist).

But, different martial arts take different amounts of time to learn and to develop your skills etc. As such, for a beginner, you should choose a class with the best instructor. And this does not necessarily mean the one with the hardest looking instructor or one that has an instructor flying about doing backflips and all sorts (although these may be useful to judge their competency etc.). Rather a good instructor is one who is able to get the best out of you, so that you learn quickly and properly whilst improving physicaly etc.

So my advice is, pick the class that stretches you, one you think you would progress best in rather than the style you think might be the best. I'm not saying that this is not an important consideration though, and if you wanna do wushu and nothing else, then youre not gonna get what you want from a judo class for example. However, once you have got some of the basics, then you might be in a better position to choose what style you wanna do.

Above all have fun! Hope this is helpful.
 
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fen739 said:
A good friend and myself are looking to take up some form of martial art, mainly to stay healthy, but also for the fun of it.

Basically we have no idea what type to choose, classic karate, judo, tae quondo (sp?), kickboxing... the list is endless

From what my dad's told me about judo, that doesn't really seem the interesting one as it's more about rolls etc, but I'm open to suggestions.

So what would you suggest?

1) Do you want to do a martial art primarily to get fit, or to learn how to fight?

2) If it's fighting, would you prefer a subtle art that took a long time to learn but are ultimately rewarding, or harder, more raw arts that you can apply much quicker for self-defence?

2) What's your postcode/town?

Let me know and i'll spec you some good nearby clubs.
 
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In response to the criticisms of TKD... I'd just say that there's a difference between sparring TKD and self defence TKD, we're taught both, and in a street situation your first thoughts are run away, and if you can't, block the incoming attack with enough force to damage the attacker and follow it up with a punch. All of the tae-geuk patterns have self defence applications.
 
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Richdog said:
1) Do you want to do a martial art primarily to get fit, or to learn how to fight?

2) If it's fighting, would you prefer a subtle art that took a long time to learn but are ultimately rewarding, or harder, more raw arts that you can apply much quicker for self-defence?

2) What's your postcode/town?

Let me know and i'll spec you some good nearby clubs.
Sorry the reply took so long, been very bust lately.

1. Both, (Edit) but weighted towards fitness though

2. I'm guessing the subtle art gets better than the quicker by the end? Again, I'm not really too bothered, I'd like to know how to fight, but I doubt I'll be needing to ASAP so a fast course isn't needed.

3. Guildford (GU1 area)

Thanks for the help, and the post about styles, a very good read.
 
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Associate
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I have just noticed you say you are from the Guildford area. I am to so hi.

Anyway, back on topic. If there is nothing that takes your fancy in Guildford itself it may be worth venturing over to Woking leisure centre. They offer lots of various Martial arts including Thai Kickboxing.
 
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