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2 New tyres on the front..back..front..?

Discussion in 'Motors' started by stoofa, 6 Jan 2006.

  1. stoofa

    Capodecina

    Joined: 4 Mar 2003

    Posts: 12,154

    Location: Chatteris

    So maybe I've missed this all coming to light so if this is all rather old news I'm sorry.

    I've always been from the "old school" when it comes to tyres - and I've bought a fair few in the 13 years I've been on the road.
    You go in and buy 2 new tyres (usually) have those placed on the front and then the best of the rest on the rear.
    Front wheel drive, best/new tread on the front driving wheels and everyone is safe and happy.

    So I'm sat in a waiting room yesterday waiting for my car to have it's brakes sorted when I start reading the various posters.
    It was a Michelin poster (if I remember correctly) that advises totally the opposit.
    That the two newest tyres should be on the rear of the vehicle as changing the fronts from worn to brand new can dramatically change the driving characteristics of the car.
    Now I can see their argument, going from just about legal to loads of tread on a new tyre - but this goes against everything I've always been taught.

    So is this the correct way to go? In the future should it be 2 new tyres on the rear and the best of the rest on the front?
    Of is this just Michelin trying to be different and the advice from everywhere else is of the more "old school"?
    Or am I just so behind the times I should have been putting new tyres on the rear for years now?
     
  2. GT3

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,205

    Location: Chesterfield

    Hurrah another tyre debate :D

    I posted this in another thread around 6 months ago. To me it makes more sense that the wheels putting the power down and doing the steering should have the best tyres however I'm sure people reccomend the opposite because when driving at the limit and the car looses grip unexperienced drivers would be better having to deal with understeer than oversteer = less chance of an accident.
     
  3. Phantom

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,809

    Location: Southampton, Hampshire

    ive just done this.. 2 front tyres were on the legal limit so bought two brand new ones. they went straight onto the front. i asked the guy at the garage (a pirelli dealer) and he said it didnt matter, as long as they (the four tyres) are legal its fine
     
  4. robbiemc

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 30 Dec 2003

    Posts: 2,262

    Location: West Byfleet, Surrey.

    I replied on a thread similar to this a while ago.

    Channel 4s' Driven' programme did a test on exactly this a while ago. They conducted the test using a
    standard Corsa and drove it round a wet bend at 30mph (I think that was the speed).

    They did the test with brand new tyres on the front, to which the car then spun out of control, but when they then put the
    new tyres on the back (the original worn ones on the front), and drove around the same wet bend at the same speed,
    the car went around perfectly.

    I was very surprised at this, and at the dramatic difference this could make to what is a very normal
    every-day driving occurance.

    They (obviously) concluded that you should put the new tyres on the back of a car, instead of the front.
     
  5. Mr_Sukebe

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 23 Dec 2002

    Posts: 9,313

    Location: London

    Depends upon the car and what you want it to do.
    As already stated, on a fwd car, having better tyres on the front can lead to the driver giving it a little more pasta, shortly before realising that the grip at the rear is rubbish and oversteering off the road.
    From a safety perspective, I'd suggest good tyres on the rear.
    If you have a rwd car and want some more fun, I'd put the rubbish tyres on the back, making it far easier to get sideways, but that's just personal preference and I wouldn't recommend everyone to drive like that.
     
  6. arcamalpha

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 1,147

    Great phrase! 10 points to you sir.
     
  7. Glaucus

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 11 Mar 2004

    Posts: 76,645

    I always put new tyres on *** front. had 2 new sets on the front and none on the rear. the rear still look new..

    TBH it makes no diffrence. Your cars handling will change, you should get use to it before driving near the limit..
     
  8. Freefaller

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 5 Jun 2003

    Posts: 87,434

    Location: Falling...

    I heard the very same thing. If you have sticky new rubber on the front, you're less likely to understeer (or at least understeer will be reduced) and it will dig into the road more, making the back a bit lighter and causing more oversteer. With the new rubber on the back, you'll understeer more, but the back will be more in check.

    In a RWD car I'd always put the better rubber on the rear anyway. And the mx5 doesn't suffer too much understeer so it's all good. :)
     
  9. Mickey_D

    Soldato

    Joined: 9 Dec 2003

    Posts: 6,204

    Location: Gone......

    Heh, driving 4WD means I never replace only 2 tyres at a time!! :p
     
  10. Simon

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Oct 2002

    Posts: 24,057

    Location: Berks / Moscow

    This is only an issue in the wet. In the dry it doesnt really matter how much tread there is, the problem arises when the tread reaches it water pumping capacity, any more water will mean the tyre will lose grip. New tyres are obviously much better than worn tyres. Fitting new tyres on the front means than in wet weather conditions AND fast driving the rears will give up first as the worn tread reachs its pumping capacity much sooner than new tyres.

    Its a good idea to fit new ones on the rear as it saves people having 5 year old rear tyres on a fwd car due to the rears hardly wearing.
     
  11. Simon

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Oct 2002

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    Location: Berks / Moscow

    Just to point out: New tyres are no better than worn tyres in the dry, infact bald tyres are ace in the dry, lethal in the wet though.
     
  12. L0rdMike

    Capodecina

    Joined: 3 Nov 2003

    Posts: 10,586

    Location: Southampton

    Aint new tyres coated in crap that makes them have little grip?
     
  13. GT3

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,205

    Location: Chesterfield

    Ah! So maybe I should put my racing slicks er I mean Eagle F1's back on for the summer. :p :D
     
  14. Simon

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Oct 2002

    Posts: 24,057

    Location: Berks / Moscow

    Yeah mould release agent sometimes gets into the first microns of the tyre which needs scrubbing, also the grip is worse as the tyres have not 'scrubbed' into the geometry of the car. Always take it easy for first few hundred miles of new tyres to be safe.
     
  15. thebrasso

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 5,312

    Slightly related to this topic, but do you lot rotate your tyres if you have had a full set from new? I got a new set of Eagle F1's 3300 miles ago, because I'd had a flat and was running budgets. I'm thinking about swapping them front to back at about 7000 miles. I reckon the way I drive I should get 14000 miles off them...is that a bit optimistic?
     
  16. Simon

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Oct 2002

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    Location: Berks / Moscow

    I prefer buying 2 tyres more often than all 4 at once. Seems to be less expensive that way :p
     
  17. Meridian

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 12,027

    Location: Vvardenfell


    What is interesting is that my local STS tyre place has a poster (from Pirelli IIRC) advising the opposite: new to the front on front-wheel drive. Looks like even the manufacturers can't agree. Although who knows how old both posters are.

    Thank G*d for AWD I say. Well, until I need new tyres anyway...

    M
     
  18. Mickey_D

    Soldato

    Joined: 9 Dec 2003

    Posts: 6,204

    Location: Gone......


    Yes, I always rotate my tyres. Front left to right rear, front right to left rear, rears straight up to the front. This only applies to omni-directinoal tyres, of course. You start getting into higher end ones like F1's, and you can only swap them front to rear, not side to side.

    I tend to get at least 5 rotations out of a set of tyres. Mind you, I always go for the "extended life" tyres. If I'm going to be spending that amount of money at one shot anyways, might as well go the couple extra bucks a tyre and get the longest possible life out of them. I rarely go below 35,000 mile tyres. The best I ever did was that set of Les Schwab Wild Country RVT's that I got for my little truck. 55,000 mile tyres!! :eek: I managed to get 62,000 out of them and still had legal tread on them when I got rid of the truck.
     
  19. austinpowers

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 29 Sep 2003

    Posts: 2,435

    When my front tyres need changing i just get new ones fitted, same if the backs need changing, none of this swapping/rotation malarky.
     
  20. Mickey_D

    Soldato

    Joined: 9 Dec 2003

    Posts: 6,204

    Location: Gone......

    Funny, considering tyre manufacturers recommend tyre rotation every 3,000 miles or every season change. So do the vehicle manufacturers.

    A car is designed to have 4 tyres with equal grip/tread on them. Any variation upsets the engineered balance of the car.

    So from a manufacturer's/designer's/engineer's pont of view, not rotating the tyres is asking for trouble.