4K streaming in the house, buffer issues

OnamCh · 8 Sep 2019 at 08:04

Hi all, perhaps a silly question but I want to sure about the kit I will need (if any) to ensure I have a buffer free streaming experience.

I currently have:
Synology DS918+
Cat 8 cable running from NAS to router
Router is a BT Home Hub 5

When I try to stream a 4K film it tends to lag and buffer after a few seconds. Standard definition 1080p stuff is fine which leads me to think it's the router? I need to invest in a good one I guess as it's pretty old and I didn't have the need to change it at all but for 4K content I guess I need to?

Any advice on this would be great

Btw I know cat 8 cable is overkill but it was £1 more than a cat 6

Thanks in advance

Donnie Fisher · 8 Sep 2019 at 08:48

So from Nas to router (cable) and then to device by WiFi ?

Likely your WiFi speed. Just Havecause you have a signal does not necessarily mean you have a good speed. Have you tried a cable from the router (even basic cat5e) to device to check that. ?

ChrisD. · 8 Sep 2019 at 09:52

What are you using to play the media? It may be transcoding on the NAS which could be another reason.

bremen1874 · 8 Sep 2019 at 16:29

OnamCh said:
Btw I know cat 8 cable is overkill but it was £1 more than a cat 6

If it was only £1 more then the Cat6 was vastly overpriced or the Cat8 was suspiciously cheap. There's a lot of cheap high category cables on Amazon and similar market places that I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. A nice vanilla Cat5e or Cat6 cable from a trusted supplier is a better bet.

If you're streaming from the NAS the router won't be doing any routing. Even the switch in a HH5 is more than capable of shifting the data required for 4K streaming.

ChrisD. · 8 Sep 2019 at 16:33

bremen1874 said:
If you're streaming from the NAS the router won't be doing any routing. Even the switch in a HH5 is more than capable of shifting the data required for 4K streaming.

Unless the OP is using something like Plex and a a Nvidia Shield, I can almost guarantee that the NAS is doing the transcoding, the last I looked there's no consumer NAS available that can transcode 4k on the fly.

bremen1874 · 8 Sep 2019 at 16:36

?????

Avalon · 8 Sep 2019 at 18:35

Cat8, a toy NAS, no mention of media type/bit-rates involved or client capabilities, what could possibly go wrong?

Op, start by giving us some relevant details:
What are you streaming to (client)?
How is the client connected to the server?
What format is the media in?
What bit-rate?
What does the Synology look like in terms of CPU/IO usage while this is happening?

You are wrong about the HH5, it’s not the best, but it’ll easily handle gigabit wired LAN.

OnamCh · 8 Sep 2019 at 23:04

Sorry guys, so after checking all my kit again I realized the obvious. My router which I mentioned was pretty old only supports up to 802.11n which isn't quick enough based on what I read to support 4K streaming. I've seen one that supports 802.11ac and 802.11ax.

Sorry for the vague detail but @Donny84 you got me thinking from your post, appreciate it.

To answer the above:
The NAS isn't doing a lot no transcoding is taking place. CPU running less than 10%. Movie is 50mbps bit rate, H265.

Don't get the toy NAS comment tbh, I don't need a super duper whopper NAS. I think £500 for a general home use NAS is enough.

OnamCh · 8 Sep 2019 at 23:11

bremen1874 said:
If it was only £1 more then the Cat6 was vastly overpriced or the Cat8 was suspiciously cheap. There's a lot of cheap high category cables on Amazon and similar market places that I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. A nice vanilla Cat5e or Cat6 cable from a trusted supplier is a better bet.

If you're streaming from the NAS the router won't be doing any routing. Even the switch in a HH5 is more than capable of shifting the data required for 4K streaming.

I say £1 but actually it wasn't

it was £3 more for 1m cable. I probably paid too much for it but it feels like a quality cable.

bremen1874 · 8 Sep 2019 at 23:22

If you spent more than £1 on a 1 metre cable it was money wasted. You didn't need anything better than Cat5e UTP.

So you're streaming over wireless? That wasn't clear from your opening post.

BigT · 9 Sep 2019 at 03:17

If you have a Home Hub 5 as in your opening post then it supports 802.11ac already. Check it isn’t the strength of the signal where your clients are or indeed a limitation of your clients before upgrading the router which may not solve either of those issues.

WJA96 · 9 Sep 2019 at 03:25

What else is connected to the HH5?

What are you trying to watch the stream on? Most TVs are not 5GHz devices so it’ll only be 802.11n at best and if you have an 801.11b client on the WLAN the whole system will be running at ultra-slow speeds.

OnamCh · 9 Sep 2019 at 03:32

TV supports ac based on the spec. Also I read this little comparison chart on the BT site http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/51940/~/whats-the-difference-between-the-bt-hubs? that suggests it isn't ac compatible.

Just to be clear I have HH5 from 7/8 years ago..

WJA96 · 9 Sep 2019 at 03:40

OnamCh said:
TV supports ac based on the spec. Also I read this little comparison chart on the BT site http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/51940/~/whats-the-difference-between-the-bt-hubs? that suggests it isn't ac compatible.

Just to be clear I have HH5 from 7/8 years ago..

That table says 3x3 AC for the HH5. What’s the TV and is it on 5GHz?

Avalon · 9 Sep 2019 at 04:00

OnamCh said:
Sorry guys, so after checking all my kit again I realized the obvious. My router which I mentioned was pretty old only supports up to 802.11n which isn't quick enough based on what I read to support 4K streaming. I've seen one that supports 802.11ac and 802.11ax.

Sorry for the vague detail but @Donny84 you got me thinking from your post, appreciate it.

To answer the above:
The NAS isn't doing a lot no transcoding is taking place. CPU running less than 10%. Movie is 50mbps bit rate, H265.

Don't get the toy NAS comment tbh, I don't need a super duper whopper NAS. I think £500 for a general home use NAS is enough.

So now the client(s) are connected via Wi-fi and not cabled (that would have been more useful in the op than telling us about the dubious cat8), transcoding is mentioned which means you’re presumably running Plex/Emby/JellyFin (again, would have been useful - Tautulli for example may provide insight, check the logs etc.) and still no mention of an actual client device, but we can assume it probably plays H265, but as you’re doing this by Wi-fi it’s not able to receive the data at a consistently high enough speed which results in buffering.

Let’s start with the basics here, you have 4K content at 50mbps and it’s HEVC, based on that you don’t want to even try transcoding it in software, hardware will depend on what CPU is inside the Synology, either way transcoding it is a moot point in Plex as it will output 1080 h264 anyway. That leaves the client, as you’ve not bothered to tell us what that is, i’ll assume it can handle 50mbps, if you can hard wire it, do so, that will likely resolve the bandwidth issue, if not check what it’s capabilities are, not everything is capable of handling high bit-rate files (not that 50mbps would be, but I highly doubt it’ll be CBR anyway). People have a nasty habit of using inappropriate devices, then putting them in really questionable locations, for example fire sticks connected via Wi-Fi behind a large shielded TV against a solid wall. They then wonder why they have issues when someone who uses the same kit, but with the wired network adapter has no issues.

Generally price is not a good metric to gauge a product’s capabilities to do a job. If I purchased the same Synology but paid 2x the price, it’s not going to perform any differently, i’d just have a bigger hole in my bank account, it’s not how much you spent that was relevant, it’s what you chose to spend it on when superior options exist for less money.

WJA96 · 9 Sep 2019 at 06:47

The DS918+ is a decent NAS, well capable of transcoding a single H265 file. Synology market it as a transcoding NAS. Unless it’s running the base spec 2Gb RAM, I doubt that’s the problem.

I think it’s much more likely that the TV is connected at 2.4GHz and there are horrid Chinese IoT devices lurking on the network that are slowing it down.

OnamCh · 9 Sep 2019 at 07:34

WJA96 said:
The DS918+ is a decent NAS, well capable of transcoding a single H265 file. Synology market it as a transcoding NAS. Unless it’s running the base spec 2Gb RAM, I doubt that’s the problem.

I think it’s much more likely that the TV is connected at 2.4GHz and there are horrid Chinese IoT devices lurking on the network that are slowing it down.

Bang on the money there, it's running on 2.5Ghz. The NAS is packing 4GB RAM. Based on everyone's suggestion I wired it up to my TV (Sony XE93) and it worked flawlessly no buffering. This is cable from router to NAS, then NAS to TV.