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Abortion

Discussion in 'SC Archive' started by JodieO, 18 Oct 2002.

  1. JodieO

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 8,177

    Is it right or wrong? I used to think that abortion should be allowed but the more I think about it the more I feel for the unborn child. Having my daughter has changed my way of thinking. You can still legally get an abortion up to 5 months and that is a ridiculous amount of time as babies have been born then and survived. Aborting that late into pregnancy is murder in my eyes. After seeing scans of my baby at that stage where she was rubbing her eyes and sucking her fingers. I can understand that some women didn't want to get pregnant but they should be more careful or abort earlier. It isn't fair on the child, maybe they should have them adopted rather than aborted so the child at least gets a chance at life.
     
  2. JohnnyD

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 2,765

    Location: Leighton Buzzard/Cheltenham

    I think it should be allowed, the child may be better off being killed before its born if it really is unwanted.
     
  3. Fox

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 248

    Location: Down in London Town

    Ok i think abortion at 5 months is too long into it. However I do agree with abortion simply because its all well and good saying they should have been more careful but no contraception is 100% effective. If there isnt the financial or emotional support for a baby then it is better to terminate at an the earliest opportunity rather than let it come into the world, be neglected or similiar.

    Thats before we even get into things such as rape and abuse, abortion is the only option really for most women in such circumstances.
     
  4. Manlove is my forte

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,637

    Location: Xbox Live

    Jodie as you probably already know i am stuck in my belifs

    I think abortion is wrong after a certian time. If you didnt want the baby you shouldnt have the sex.

    Not only do i think it is murder and inhumane but i also feel that in some cases it it dangerious for the mother.

    I think that the abortion pill is ok as it can be taken like a late morning after pill within a certin time after birth. But I still dont approve of it

    edit: If there was a medical reason for the abortion then I would see it as a justifialble reason to terminate the pregnancy
     
    Last edited: 18 Oct 2002
  5. *FLASH*

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,948

    Location: Caerphilly, South Wales

    I feel that no matter what term a pregnancy is at making that decision is the hardest thing someone has to do, but can also be the most horrible

    for some that decision may be inevitable it must happen due to medical reasons

    but if there was a standing vote I would be against
     
  6. JodieO

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 8,177

    Afaik the abortion pill can be taken up to 12 weeks when it will terminate the pregnancy and the woman will lose the baby, it's also given up to around 5 months to kill the baby before the woman goes through labour.

    I also think that just because a baby has problems such as down's that is no exuse, they are still yours and deserve a chance. If I found out I was carrying a down's baby I would not abort because it isn't right. They take a lot more caring for but there are degress to it and some people with down's live on their own. You can't tell how bad it will be before the baby is born either.
     
  7. Manlove is my forte

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,637

    Location: Xbox Live

    Jodie I dont mean problems like downs I know a 10 year old downs baby he is lovley

    I mean more serious problems either for the mother or sevier disability (vegitable state) where the parents have to take into consideration both the quality of live for themselves and their child. Also the cappasity for upbringing. some parents have neither the time or the money to take care of a severly disabled baby.

    What if the baby will die with in weeks of birth. Some parents might not want to put their child through a short but painful life.

    I might put in now I beleve in humaninsm (i think its what its called)
     
  8. JodieO

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 8,177

    Shouldn't we just let nature take it's course? Just from what you were saying in the thread about IVF. When you have a baby they take up a lot of your time anyway and there are benefits you'd receive if you have a disabled child. They can't tell how long a baby will live after they are born it's all guess work.

    A lot of the more serious problems to affect the mother during pregnancy happen in the later stages and so an early delivery would be the option recommended by doctors not abortion.
     
  9. Manlove is my forte

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

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    Location: Xbox Live


    I said where it is dangerious for the mother or baby ie an emergancy if it is safest for the mother to give birth then there is no reason to abort is there?


    And with the nature taking cource I said in the ivf (posably after you posted this)

    I think that people should be helped / cared for until until they are capable of interacting with society and supporting themselves

    Even if the parents get some extra benifit support. it isnt always
    enough. some times it is best to be humaine. But I think that that is the parents desion and no-one should have the right to judge or choose in this situation. It is completly upto the parents

    But if it is due to just having sex and not being carefull then there should be no option but to have the baby if there is nothing wrong with it
     
  10. Fox

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 248

    Location: Down in London Town

    I think regardless of what each of us may think, its the right to choose that is fundamental. The fact is there are alot of people in this world who shouldnt be allowed kids at any time in their life, but if a person knows that it isnt the right time to have a baby for whatever reason then the right thing to do is to be responsible and have an abortion. Giving a baby up for adoption may sound a better option but there are already too many children waiting to be adopted, placed into care homes, which are not a good way to bring up children. Some may argue that if you don't want children then don't have sex, well to me that is silly, because realistically its not going to happen, its human instinct. Usually its only because of religious beliefs that people do not have sex nowadays and they are in the minority.

    At the end of the day it is up to the people involved with their own special circumstances to decide, and they should be allowed to decide. There are many people especially those from the pro-life lobby who would do well instead of trying to restrict freedom, or force women to become mothers to do something about the problems that really face this country.
     
  11. JodieO

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 8,177

    If you have sex and don't use protection then it's your own fault if you get pregnant why should the unborn child have to suffer? If it isn't the right time to have a baby then use protection, it's very easy.

    Kronologic saying that it's ok to abort a disabled baby is close to people not wanting boys/girls etc. If scans didn't exist people would have the baby and then find out, it's only technology that is now making it easier to pick and choose. Some areas won't even tell poeple the sex of the baby because they might abort if it's a girl.
     
  12. Fox

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 248

    Location: Down in London Town

    Well yes if you don't use protection you are silly, and more than likely get pregnant. But if the baby was born would it not suffer anyway if it had to be born to parents who did not want it? Surely that is more cruel.
    Using protection is the obvious method, but it is not foolproof, condom's split, forgetting to take the pill can disrupt the whole business, no contraception is 100% guranteed and people still fall pregnant using it.

    Aborting because of the of the baby's sex is plain wrong and should not be allowed. However disabled babies, is a contraversial issue. Yes they should be given a chance to live but is it moral to let a child be born in the full knowledge that for the rest of its life it will be suffering from the word go? If an animal were to be born like that it would be put down, you wouldn't allow it to suffer so why should it be any different for humans? obviously once its born you can not kill it, but before then I think it can be acceptable. Which is the greater evil to condemn the baby to a life of cruelty and suffering or to abort the foetus before it really knows any kind of pain or suffering?
     
  13. Manlove is my forte

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

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    Location: Xbox Live

    Bah humans are so fickle.

    The way I see itis , tough.

    be thankful for what you get because others are not as fortunate as you.

    If there is nothing wrong with the child and it is perfectly happy then I dont think it should be aborted and would be stronly against it.
     
  14. JodieO

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 8,177

    How do you know it's suffering or in pain? With mental disabilities you mostly can't tell the degree to which the child will be affected until after they are born.
     
  15. Manlove is my forte

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

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    Location: Xbox Live

    But there are signs for certian disabilites that will cause the child to have a very poor quality of life
     
  16. JodieO

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 8,177

    With downs, for example, you can't tell how bad it will be until after the baby is born.
     
  17. Steve

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,116

    Location: Brighton - In the seat that Ro

    my 2p

    Abortion should not be allowed after say 2-3 months,

    Jodie you said in one post it is not the childs fault that they were conieved which is true but an unwanted child in the wrong family will only lead to the child suffering.

    As for abortions due to disabulity, thats a tough one.

    I have relatives who have heavily disabuilities and they have a good life and I love them to bits. But some disabulities are so surver that for the childs sake abortion is a kinder option.

    As Jodie Knows I love babies but in the right circumstances I would agree to an abortion.
     
  18. MindYerBeak

    Soldato

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 5,328

    In my opinion abortion is a necessity due to the overcrowding of our planet. An unborn child has no consciousness until such time as it hits daylight, when it becomes aware of existence; everything else is just reflexive movement. On that basis I would say it isn't murder to terminate the pregnancy of an unborn child. It simply isn't aware of existence until the moment of birth, rather like a plant or a stone.

    With respect to adoption, I've heard too many heartbreak stories of a child's upbringing under such circumstances. Most people adopt for one reason only: money. They care not a jot about the upbringing of a child. In my view 95% of adoptions are done purely out of love for money, not the child.

    Being born into a problem family also needs to be taken into consideration. You're onto a loser from the word go and could well end up becoming a criminal, spending most of your life in prison, depressed for life, feeling unwanted and unloved. I ask you this: have you ever felt unwanted or unloved? It's a fear akin to the fear of death, for in effect your true personality does actually die and a substitute takes over; for the remainder of your life you will feel dead inside. You are no longer you, but something that someone else has created. Success in life is not within your grasp, you fear your fellow man and live in a dark, secluded world.
     
  19. daz

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 23,956

    Location: Bucks

    Abortion up to a certain point should definitely be allowed. Bringing a child into this world is serious business, and requires love, care, attention and money. If either of those things are not going to be there, then then the embryo/foetus (*not* a child) should be allowed to be aborted. I am no expert on sentience or development in the womb, but i believe that once the feotus becomes self aware and sentient, that should be it - it is now alive and it should now be born unless there are serious risks to the mother.

    If you find out after 4 months that a foetus is going to be deformed or that it will not have a 'normal' life or suffer from ill health for the rest of its life, I see no problem with it being aborted. At this stage the foetus is *not* a person - yes it is living, but it is a group of cells, not a sentient being like you or I.
     
  20. Doobdonk

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 2,000

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    I don't in all honesty approve of abortion, although it is something my fiance and i had to think about very seriously recently. To be honest, neither of us wanted to take that step, but it's only natural, with the option being there, to consider it, particularly if circumstances aren't ideal.

    Abortion at up to 5 months is wrong. By that time the child has all of it's vital organs, and has had for several months. Pretty much the only changes the child makes over the next 4 months is growth, so in all honesty you are, in my opinion, killing a child, as, as Jodie said, there are many cases of successful births at that age.

    I think that it should be allowed in some circumstances, for example cases of rape. It's distressing enough for the 'mother' to have to overcome the rape, but to live with it in the form of a child for the rest of their life..... i don't think that would be fair.

    My fiance and I came to the conclusion that if we were to go through with an abortion it's something neither of us would ever come to terms with. Also, there is the very slight risk that we may never have been able to have another child.

    Everyone knows the potential consequences of unprotected sex, and there is plenty of help and support available without the need to take away a child's life.