Advice on Sky Broadband > Court Order...

SMN · 28 Jun 2010 at 15:07

Its all nonsense at the end of the day - they cant prove it was you who used it, the IP, while not totally dynamic (they CAN tell what IP you had at what time due to logs) is by no means binding. Also, you can just remove access restriction from your AP and just play dumb. Unless they find a way to raid your house and find it on your PC, or get you to confess, as has been said before, they can go whistle for it.

Its still innocent unless proven guilty last time I checked. You shouldnt have to justify you didnt do it. Just dont play their games, keep the letters they sent (its dumb to bin legal documentation) and be nothing but civil and to the letter.

That would be my advice.

Rainmaker · 28 Jun 2010 at 16:05

I don't understand the ISP bashing going on in this thread. Is it just me, or have those saying such things against Sky/Plusnet/etc completely missed the fact that the ISPs listed on the court paperwork were the respondents to the court case?

That is, ACS sued the ISPs to get a court order which forces them to hand over the personal details of their customer who was using IP x at time y. You can't bitch about an ISP for complying with the law. Sorry to break it to you, but their own liberty and freedom to continue trading is more important to them than your torrenting.

OP, good luck. Going by past reading you'll be fine. They don't seem to want to actually sue anyone, as that would (as stated by someone above) kill their business model. Ignore, unless it comes from an actual court. THEN seek real legal advice from someone experienced in this area, i.e. not Family General Lawyer Co. Ltd.

Tripp · 28 Jun 2010 at 16:47

Rainmaker said:
I don't understand the ISP bashing going on in this thread. Is it just me, or have those saying such things against Sky/Plusnet/etc completely missed the fact that the ISPs listed on the court paperwork were the respondents to the court case?

That is, ACS sued the ISPs to get a court order which forces them to hand over the personal details of their customer who was using IP x at time y. You can't bitch about an ISP for complying with the law. Sorry to break it to you, but their own liberty and freedom to continue trading is more important to them than your torrenting.
.

Raises questions about how easy it is to get court orders for peoples details based on what appears to be shakey / unreliable evidence.

deuse · 28 Jun 2010 at 16:50

http://www.acs-law.org.uk/index.php...s-to-criticisms&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=50

You got to laugh at them

Rainmaker · 28 Jun 2010 at 16:54

Tripp said:
Raises questions about how easy it is to get court orders for peoples details based on what appears to be shakey / unreliable evidence.

Quite right, I'm not arguing that. I was just pointing out that you can't blame an ISP for not basically ignoring a high court order.

Faustus · 28 Jun 2010 at 16:57

Its still innocent unless proven guilty last time I checked

Again this is civil law not criminal and the burden of proof is a lot lower in civil cases. The level of expertise from Barrack Room Lawyers in this thread really is alarming and I would urge people to seek sound legal advice i.e. not on forums such as this. :eek:

toon_mad · 28 Jun 2010 at 17:04

deuse said:
http://www.acs-law.org.uk/index.php...s-to-criticisms&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=50

You got to laugh at them

It is said I accuse individuals of infringement of copyright in my initial letters. This is not true. I make an enquiry of the recipient of my initial letter following receipt of evidence that their internet connection was utilized for the purposes of infringing copyright of our clients (or their licensors’ copyright, as appropriate);

i read half of his no.1 and laughed, the first and only letter we got was a letter of accusation and threat of court unless paying up!!

what a joke

realscot · 28 Jun 2010 at 22:04

I remember reading somewhere after doing research on this when my first friend got the letter, it was another law firm basically saying that it was blatantly an attempt to scare people into paying up, and you should basically admit to nothing and not even respond to ACS law until you recieve an official summons or something like that. They had pointed out that it was highly unlikely that ACS law would actually take anyone to court on the matter as at the time the article was written over 20,000 "out of court settlement" letters had been sent, by what seems to me, a pretty small law firm.
No way could they take everyone on!
Worst case scenario it goes to court, then simply time to recycle some hard drives, let them prove it. It's not as if there's gonna be a dawn raid by ur local police now.

Oh and by the way, the file that my friend supposedly downloaded he knows for a fact he never did, and secondly he wasn't even in the country on the date he was accused of downloading it. And he turns his PC + other components off at the wall when he's not at home, so the router wasn't even getting power. Hence why he just laughed at the letter then fed it to the shredder.

toon_mad · 28 Jun 2010 at 23:15

all very true realscot, in a template letter i was given from a website it reads along the lines of how can ACS Law pursue you, as a) they dont have enough evidence b) the letter was sent out over a year after the alleged offence, which already makes a case they may have very weak.

yup, my mothers been downloading future trance, she knows all about that stuff, yet can barely open her emails!

her internet was wireless, if unsecure any one could have used it, if it was wep it would be cracked in around 5 minutes, even if it was WPA2 it could have been breached rather easily.

a pensioner was accused of downloading gay porn, yes a 88 year old man accused of this. some women was accused of downloading two worlds pc game.

unless someone physically catches or sees you downloading or filesharing, how can they send out court case letters.

And in response to Rainmaker, i hear what your saying, but it would have been nice if Sky were to contact my mother either by phone or letter, to at least notify her that someone or some organisation has asked for her private details. The fact that sky just released them to ACS Law was shocking, hence she has now terminated her sky broadband.

Rainmaker · 28 Jun 2010 at 23:18

toon_mad said:
And in response to Rainmaker, i hear what your saying, but it would have been nice if Sky were to contact my mother either by phone or letter, to at least notify her that someone or some organisation has asked for her private details. The fact that sky just released them to ACS Law was shocking, hence she has now terminated her sky broadband.

If they were able, then yes I 100% agree. Without seeing the order though it's hard to say. Maybe there was a non-disclosure term in it, preventing them from doing so? Just trying to play devil's advocate. I hope this gets sorted out for you (or rather, goes away as 99% of the others have) mate.

toon_mad · 28 Jun 2010 at 23:21

yeah cheers mate, its been over a week now and no response but its still early days.

there website is a joke, most the things that Crossley bloke is saying is completely opposite to what thousands of people are saying on different message boards and websites etc.

I even read somewhere that its only 3 people operating ACS Law, 3 bankrupt students who got caught dowloading themselves apparently.

But whatever, only time will tell and see what happens.

Faustus · 28 Jun 2010 at 23:24

I don't know why illegal downloading is such an issue. When I read threads about this issue on this and other forums no one ever seems to be guilty of this practice. Everyone knows of someone that does this sort of thing but has never done it themselves or would even know how to?

What is that smell? Hmm! let me think, ah yes that's it b - - - - - - t

Rainmaker · 28 Jun 2010 at 23:38

Faustus said:
I don't know why illegal downloading is such an issue. When I read threads about this issue on this and other forums no one ever seems to be guilty of this practice. Everyone knows of someone that does this sort of thing but has never done it themselves or would even know how to?

What is that smell? Hmm! let me think, ah yes that's it male cow excrement

Don't forget the holier than thou element who would never, ever steal monies from the poor innocent starving artists and actors.

BTW fully star out (or otherwise disguise as above) your 'sweary'. You'll end up going on your holidays if you don't. hehe

Macro · 29 Jun 2010 at 14:23

Rainmaker said:
Don't forget the dishonest element who would never, ever pay people for their work if they think they can get away with ripping it off for free.

Rainmaker · 29 Jun 2010 at 15:19

Bastardised quote attempt at sarcasm said:
Don't forget the dishonest element who would never, ever pay people for their work if they think they can get away with ripping it off for free.

Not taking into account the fact that 'real' artists actually encourage 'piracy' as they acknowledge it spreads the word, raises awareness, promotes good music, and increases ticket sales for gigs - where the artists actually make money instead of lining the music industry's pockets. I'm not talking pub bands either - plenty of big names tell you to go free for all.

Or maybe the studies which have shown that 'pirates' spend several-fold more money a year on creative media (film, music, gigs, books) than do non-'pirates'. 'Piracy' drives innovation. Hell, Avatar was probably the most pirated movie of all time, in 1080p no less, and yet it still managed to smash records as the highest grossing film of all time. I don't think Hollywood will starve any time soon tbh.

So maybe it's OK when you have "permission".

toon_mad · 29 Jun 2010 at 15:22

look at the pic in the first youtube video, FrAudulent SoliCitors Scam

ubersonic · 29 Jun 2010 at 16:13

Send them a letter that you do not listen to trance music and any further defamation of your sexuality will be met with a libel lawsuit ^^

Faustus · 29 Jun 2010 at 22:47

BTW fully star out (or otherwise disguise as above) your 'sweary'. You'll end up going on your holidays if you don't. hehe

What, the smell of "beetroot" what's wrong or sweary about that?

Rainmaker · 29 Jun 2010 at 22:48

Faustus said:
What, the smell of "beetroot" what's wrong or sweary about that?

Oh yeah... my bad.

toon_mad · 6 Jul 2010 at 21:04

well its been a few weeks now and still no reply from them. So we are hoping they have just bottled it and backed down, theres nothing worse then getting letters from leeches demanding money with little to no evidence backing up there allegations!

will be interesting to see if they have given up or not in the next couple of weeks.