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Alex Ferguson's tactical decisions

Discussion in 'Sports Arena' started by IceBus, 19 Feb 2006.

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  1. IceBus

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,817

    Location: , Washington DC

    I don't want to sidetrack the Alan Smith thread into tactics (or lack of them) but I don't understand the logic of bringing on a defensively minded player when we're losing 1-0. Fair enough, bring Smith on if Ruud has been shot by a sniper, Rooney's head fell off and Saha got kidnapped by Chechen rebels... as a CF!!!

    We desperately needed an injection of attacking power. Bring Park on and let a fresh pair of legs run at them and try and get in behind. None of the decisions made any sense. There was no need to bring Saha on for Silvestre - again that only served to overload our front and leave the MF in a shambles, forcing Rooney even more out of the game.

    Giggs looked past it for most of the match today, yet stayed on the pitch and Ronaldo did little to trouble Liverpool other than his early 1st half shot on goal that Reina just scrambled to get.

    Ferguson has shown no consideration for form this season - playing Scholes, O'Shea, Silvestre etc. etc. when they were in awful condition over players who looked far sharper and posed more of an attacking threat.

    Substitutions have been left until the dying moments of matches that could have been salvageable, and I feel that today Smith was eager to get on and do something to turn the match around - by the time he was brought on it was too late, but he still gave 110% despite being played out of position all of this season. We've seen this before with Captain Park coming on and running the soles off his boots.

    Players who are dying to get on the pitch aren't being given a chance, Rossi has disappeared from the subs bench, yet Evra is given his first run out in a vital must-win match?!? There is a shocking lack of managerial consistency.

    Ferguson looks all at sea on the bench, waving his hands about like an infirm lollipop man directing traffic and looking around hopefully for someone around him to help. Unfortunately Quieroz is just as clueless as Alex.

    Finally the message of 4-4-2 got through to the management after repeated chants at games, but for some reason unknown to anyone other than Fergie for todays match, arguably our best shot at meaningful silverware, we changed back to disasterous 4-5-1.

    I love Manchester United. I've supported them for as many years as I've been watching football, but I have to say that in my heart I feel that Alex Ferguson has to go at the end of the season, whether he wants to or not and Carlos Quieroz is not the man to replace him.

    We need someone who can help bring on our young talent, and get the best out of the world class players already in the side (RvN, Rooney, Ronaldo) - not a manager who forces our best players either onto the bench or into positions where their talents are wasted.

    Until then, I honestly don't see how we can rebuild a team that's been in flux since Schmeichel left, and if we continue how we have been we could end up losing the few truly great players we have.

    /rant.
     
  2. red11

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 12 Jun 2005

    Posts: 8,396

    Todays game just as an example

    ------------------------Goalkeeper------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Right Back ----- Centre Half ---- Centre Half ------Left Back
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Central Midfielder---Left Winger---Left Winger --- Right/Left Winger
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    ---------------------Striker------Striker-------------------

    Anyone see anything wrong with the midfield?? Our left back (supposedly) Silvestre goes off injured at half time, will Ferguson bring on another left back off the bench, a player who he rates highly and spent £5.5million to bring him to Old Trafford, the player he brought in to support the left side of defence since Heinze is out for the season...... NOOO that would be to simple, lets bring on a striker so our formation is like this:

    ------------------------Goalkeeper----------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Right Back ----Centre Half -- Centre Half ------Left winger
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Right/Left Winger---Central Midfielder----Left Winger -----
    -----------------Striker---------Striker------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------Striker-------------------------

    Oh dear, that central midfielder is no match for Gerrard, what are my options? I could take him off and put on someone who gives a crap about the outcome of the game, no....wait... its Darren Fletcher.... I'll give him another 30 minutes to see what he does..... *glances at watch... I know!! I'll put Smith on, my striker turned defensive midfielder. Go on son, do your stuff....

    :confused: :confused: I'm sick to death of Ferguson and his tactics. He lost his marbles years ago and Queiroz won't be able to find them seeing as he had none to begin with.

    I share your pain IceBus! :(
     
  3. Nedved11

    Mobster

    Joined: 5 Aug 2003

    Posts: 4,407

    I think Saha should have come on earlier or started off, The 4-5-1 formation works. For Fergie's case, its all he can really play with. Rooney is not an out and out striker really, he will play behind RvN. Fergie was hoping that combination would work today, unfortunately it didn't.
    He has played Saha, Rooney and RvN before and has worked well on previous occasions, I don't know why he didn't start them off - He needs to be pro-active not wait until something happens to make a change, and yes to a point make the wrong change...

    I don't think we have seen enough of Evra to knock him, I think he will come through in the end, will need time, cant expect them to be a sensation as soon as he signs. As for the young uns', its a nurture game.
     
  4. fozzybear

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 27 Mar 2004

    Posts: 7,671

    Location: Manchester

    But Evra wasn't even on the bench for some reason. ;) Using Richardson as a makeshift left back is not the answer.

    Fergie's biggest mistake this season is not giving Park a consistent run in the starting line up. Everytime i've seen him play, he's been one of our best players. He's quick, can take a player on, can create chances, can score and has the added bonus of being unpredictable and adaptable.

    I feel for the guy. He deserves better. He would be my 1st choice on the wing in front of Ronaldo and Giggs.
     
  5. IceBus

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,817

    Location: , Washington DC

    I agree with that wholeheartedly. I can see what people mean when they say he's not strong enough for the Premiership yet, and he will probably gain upper body strength with time - but the thing he needs most is a consistent run in the team to get used to the English style of play.

    He has showed a huge desire and he's been very unfairly treated imo. I don't care if he was bought as a publicity stunt for the Asian market, he has proven time and time again he is a great player waiting to be discovered and to leave him out of the time for Giggs or Ronaldo is a joke. He played amazingly on the Asian tour and has looked very bright in all the matches I've seen him play.

    It's like Fergie is stuck in a time warp 'If I just keep playing Keano, Scholes and Giggs, we must win the Premiership... I mean, we did it before'
     
  6. red11

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 12 Jun 2005

    Posts: 8,396

    the 4-5-1 formation does not work, it hasn't consistently worked for us ever. In the 19 yrs Ferguson has been manager, we have played 4-4-2 for more than 90% of that time. And its no coincidence that as soon as Ferguson changes the formation and tactics that we fail to win trophies. Look at what we won and how we played in the past. This continental 4-5-1 tripe is in Fergusons head because he thinks it makes us a great team in Europe. He then said we played 4-5-1 to accomodate an ageing Keane. Carlos Queiroz employed 4-5-1 at the Bernabéu and to some extent he has influenced Ferguson.

    We play best with two wingers, a central attacking midfielder and a defensive midfielder. And two up front. Simple tactics, always worked, always will work. The combination of Rooney and RVN is perfect, an out and out striker and a player who can do anything with the ball and plays much deeper. What they are lacking are two wingers to back them up and cross the ball into the box. Ronaldo is not consistent and does not make runs and then cross. Giggs does this once every 6 matches.

    Our midfield is a shambles, and Ferguson absolutely adores Fletcher. I would bet that if Keane was still in the team he would have flattened him into the grass by now. He would never have stood for his performances this season. But as long as Ferguson does, he'll be the main man in midfield. And the rest of the midfield is built around this wonder bra.

    I don't feel that Saha fits in our team, he doesn't make the right decisions on the pitch. Playing the three of them, RVN, Rooney and Saha is a joke to be honest. And it reeks of desperation, like hoping that we get a few goals from them and ignoring the big dead elephant in Old Trafford that they are tiptoeing around that is our midfield.
     
    Last edited: 19 Feb 2006
  7. red11

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 12 Jun 2005

    Posts: 8,396


    That raises even further questions!! :confused: :confused: WTF Ferguson! Really....

    Not playing Park is an absolute sin. How that waste of space Fletcher can be called a footballer, I'll never know.
     
    Last edited: 19 Feb 2006
  8. Nedved11

    Mobster

    Joined: 5 Aug 2003

    Posts: 4,407

    I'm sometimes bemused as to why Fergie keeps playing Fletch, He takes ages on the ball and cant make rash quick decisions when he has the ball.
    They are lacking centrally no creativity or any one holding. I can see why Fergie splashed out on Veron as he was ideal, we need someone like him but not him obviously. Like people have mentioned on the wings Ronaldo is inconsistent but is getting better. I think Robben was the biggest miss, we should have tried harder to get him it was so close, he would have been the difference i feel.
     
  9. red11

    Sgarrista

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    I would call Rooney a forward. But for the formations I did up I called him a striker for simplicity sake. I'm off to bed, that is if I can get asleep, I've really worked myself up thinking of Ferguson and his bloody tactics, I don't want to burst any more blood vessels tonight. Nite fellers
     
  10. red11

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 12 Jun 2005

    Posts: 8,396

    we have Peter Kenyon to thank for that one. Messing up another deal before he went to Chelsea. The *****.
     
  11. Dtab

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

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    4-5-1 should be a suberb formation for Man U as with Rooney and RvN they have the perfect players for the one up and one behind ploy.Where it all goes to **** is the other 4 players in the midfield,none of whom are good enough,whatever combination of available players you use.
    The reverse is true for Liverpool,where we have bountiful options for the 4 midfielders,but are lacking in the one upfront and one behind department.
     
  12. andi

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 12,712

    Location: Manchester

    I can see why he brought Smith on, I just think it was the wrong time. We weren't doing anything in the middle, we were letting Liverpool run the middle of the park by playing soft midfielders. A Smith type player is what was needed, to get in and ruffle Liverpool and attempt to win some 50/50s.

    I really can't understand his logic over Park and Evra though, why he keeps putting them in the side, then dropping them again is daft. Give them a run for a few games. Parks impressed when he plays, and Evra and Vidic both need time to adapt and settle.
     
  13. cheets64

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 30 Sep 2005

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    Location: Wigan

    Every team goes through a bad patch, Man U has been through one for the last 5 years.

    The sooner you face your are an average team with and average bank balance the better.

    Fergie is struggling to even manage on the funds now and the players, get rid and bring a change, simple.
     
  14. red11

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 12 Jun 2005

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    I'd say we've had a bad patch for the last 3 seasons (inc this season), because we won the Premiership in 2000, 2001, 2003 and the F.A. Cup in 2004. Although there were clear signs that Ferguson had changed considering the key players he got rid off and the crap players he brought in.

    Like Arsenal, injuries have played a major part, this season we lost Keane and Vieira, the captains and anchormen of the teams as well. And they've not been replaced.

    We are not an average side, but we are playing average football a lot of the time and somehow still second in the League, what does that say about the teams below us? Ferguson is not struggling with the funds now, where did you get that piece of information? He's struggling with tactics, formations, and basic decisions that are so obvious to us fans.

    The only way forward is without Ferguson as manager and that is not as simple as it sounds. First of all he's got an £8million sacking clause in his contract, so that rules out the possibility of sacking him. He has said himself that he will still be at the club in a few years time, and David Gill our Chief Executive at the club has said this. Bring together the fact that Ferguson now has a good working relationship with the Glaziers and it spells a 99% chance he'll still be manager in 2008.
     
  15. The Running Man

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

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    Location: block 16, cell 12

    sack fergie

    bring in a new manager. been saying it for years. his dreadful management skills of late have caused us too many problems. time for a change. it needs to be made.
     
  16. andi

    Capodecina

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    Location: Manchester


    So average the only team above us in the league bought their way there? ;)
     
  17. TrueBlue

    PermaBanned

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    the Glazers wont sack him as they dont want to anger the fans and Fergie wont resign because he is a selfish arrogant ****. You guys just need to accept you will be having a senile old man in charge for at least another season.
     
  18. MikeTimbers

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

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    Location: New Eltham, London

    What I don't get is how Ferguson can claim that "We started the game badly, but Liverpool can play for five minutes and win a game."

    Did he watch the same game as the rest of us? I thought Liverpool bossed most of the game and had numerous chances - not just five minutes worth.
     
  19. Badboy2k3

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 4 Mar 2003

    Posts: 1,484

    I really hate to say it but I have to agree, especially if he’s playing that sorry excuse of a football player Fletcher. They guy is lightweight, negative, can't pass and runs about like a flapping headless chicken. He has got to be the worst player in a United shirt for a long time. Also Fergies tactics are totally bizarre, the guy don’t know what he’s doing. Our midfield is laughable at best, only players we have got there are Ronaldo and Park, the rest are to old, past it or not worthy in my opinion!

    Feel sorry for players like Rooney and Ruud who get fustrated and have to come back to make tackles ... it's not on!

    Fergie can never admit when our team play badly, i don't think the guy watchs the same game as us. He should take a note out of Stuart Pearce's book and use a bit of honesty when it comes to judging his team. I don't think I can ever remember him coming out and admiting we were rubbish!
     
    Last edited: 19 Feb 2006
  20. The Running Man

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

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    Location: block 16, cell 12

    yea i wonder sometimes how ruud, rooney etc feel about playing in a team that has to scrap for every last point at the moment, playign shocking long ball football. its utterly reliant on ronaldo, and rooney. a manchester utd team should never have to rely on 2 players that young to save the team.

    and the manager has to take the flak for it because he is the one who made the team
     
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