AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[gpuerrilla]

Some of the leaks are pretty ****. Like what was that all about?

Probably more a wrestling reference rather than an actual forum tag

Correct from the other side of the ropes!

 

[humbug]

Another leak:

https://mobile.twitter.com/kopite7kimi/status/1310569977024446465

GA103 apparently being a higher end GPU than GA102. Am i right?

If so, why? 2 weeks ago GA102 was launched, is that not good enough anymore? So soon? Why?

Probably more a wrestling reference rather than an actual forum tag

Ah ok..

 

[LePhuronn]

Correct from the other side of the ropes!

RKO OUTTA NOWHERE!!!!!!!!!

 

[LePhuronn]

GA103 apparently being a higher end GPU than GA102. Am i right?

I thought GA103 was a slightly lesser GA102 that was cancelled? Am I right in remembering that if Nvidia produce a revision they add 10? So a GA102 successor would be GA112?

If so, why? 2 weeks ago GA102 was launched, is that not good enough anymore? So soon? Why?

Because it was never good enough to start with more realistically there could be some silicon fixes for the power draw transistor issue, but that would imply Nvidia knew about it from the very start and rushed out defective silicon just to get something out.

 

[Nablaoperator]

GA103 apparently being a higher end GPU than GA102. Am i right?

It might be higher end than the current amputated version of ga 102 found in 3080 but smaller than the full fat ga102 found in 3090.. probably

 

[LePhuronn]

the current amputated version

Ampere-tated?

Sorry, long day (better than fish puns)

 

[gpuerrilla]

Ampere-tated?

Sorry, long day (better than fish puns)

Eel by gum.

 

[KentMan]

So if you took that rumor as gospel, it would be safe to say AMD has Nvidia shook?

Mountains of salt required...

Would actually laugh pretty hysterically if Big Navi floors 3080 and nips at 3090 while costing less than 3080 and using a lot less power, would be a total reversal and game changing moment.

Ahhh well 1 month to go til we officially see something

 

[gpuerrilla]

So if you took that rumor as gospel, it would be safe to say AMD has Nvidia shook?

Mountains of salt required...

Yes many thought from the off that Jensens generous pricing was due to spooking them and ensuing rushed launch.

 

[chroniclard]

Would actually laugh pretty hysterically if Big Navi floors 3080 and nips at 3090 while costing less than 3080 and using a lot less power, would be a total reversal and game changing moment.

Until Nvidia release the 5 slot 600W 3090Ti

 

[LePhuronn]

Would actually laugh pretty hysterically if Big Navi floors 3080 and nips at 3090 while costing less than 3080 and using a lot less power, would be a total reversal and game changing moment.

And herein lies the problem: AMD won't price a 3090 nipper less than the 3080. They probably wouldn't charge the full £1,400 for it, but however "disruptive" AMD want or claim to be, they won't be disruptive to their own profit margins or shareholders; those leeching trash bags will kick TF off if AMD "give away" a 3090 beater for 3080 money.

AMD must play the price-performance game whilst navigating the tricky waters of mindshare, perception and their own "we're not a budget brand" foot-shooting.

Add to that, there isn't actually much of a gap between 3080 and 3090 performance, which can make pricing more difficult. Consider these simplified numbers:

3090 is 20% greater than 3080, 3090 is £700 more expensive than 3080
6900XT comes in 10% greater than 3080: how the hell do AMD price that?

Shareholders would likely want it to be £1,299 (which is 70% of the price delta for 50% of the performance delta), mindshare (or lack thereof) would almost demand it be £899. AMD might go for £999 but that would **** of both parties.

 

[queamin]

I thought 3080/90, had Integar sharing with FP on one pipeline(or what ever you call it), so if Integar was in use the FP would be cut down 50% or can it do both at once?.

 

[Howling]

And herein lies the problem: AMD won't price a 3090 nipper less than the 3080. They probably wouldn't charge the full £1,400 for it, but however "disruptive" AMD want or claim to be, they won't be disruptive to their own profit margins or shareholders; those leeching trash bags will kick TF off if AMD "give away" a 3090 beater for 3080 money.

AMD must play the price-performance game whilst navigating the tricky waters of mindshare, perception and their own "we're not a budget brand" foot-shooting.

Add to that, there isn't actually much of a gap between 3080 and 3090 performance, which can make pricing more difficult. Consider these simplified numbers:

3090 is 20% greater than 3080, 3090 is £700 more expensive than 3080
6900XT comes in 10% greater than 3080: how the hell do AMD price that? Shareholders would likely want it to be £1,199, mindshare (or lack thereof) would almost demand it be £899. AMD might go for £999 but that would **** of both parties.

If AMD bring out a card 10% faster than the 3080, they just price it at $699/£650 the same as the 3080. That would be the smart play, capitalize on nVidia's b0rked launch and other issues so far with the 30x0 series which merely tops off the negative sentiment the 20x0 series left in peoples' mouths ... Even if AMD don't make money on this gen's units and just break even - the mindshare is far far more important at the minute, AMD need more of the GPU pie long term.

 

[Nablaoperator]

I thought some ... it's coming as mixed news to me. Following scenarios might have worked out:

1. Original idea was to bin the ga102 higher.. let's see something like 9500 shaders and brand it as 3080 ti. there was no 3090 only a full titan Now Nvidia believes that they overestimated Navi and are reverting to GA103

2. Nvidia believes that they can't anyhow compete with Navi's performance at those price points and would compete with a lower end part by obfuscating the market with keywords like dlss 2.0, rt 2.0 while matching Navi's price

If someone has rumoured specs of ga103 leaked before the cancellation, we'd be able to better analyse the situation.

 

[Twinz]

The 3080 is a far better value than the 2080T

And herein lies the problem: AMD won't price a 3090 nipper less than the 3080. They probably wouldn't charge the full £1,400 for it, but however "disruptive" AMD want or claim to be, they won't be disruptive to their own profit margins or shareholders; those leeching trash bags will kick TF off if AMD "give away" a 3090 beater for 3080 money.

AMD must play the price-performance game whilst navigating the tricky waters of mindshare, perception and their own "we're not a budget brand" foot-shooting.

Add to that, there isn't actually much of a gap between 3080 and 3090 performance, which can make pricing more difficult. Consider these simplified numbers:

3090 is 20% greater than 3080, 3090 is £700 more expensive than 3080
6900XT comes in 10% greater than 3080: how the hell do AMD price that?

Shareholders would likely want it to be £1,299 (which is 70% of the price delta for 50% of the performance delta), mindshare (or lack thereof) would almost demand it be £899. AMD might go for £999 but that would **** of both parties.

The "shareholders" of Nvidia were supposedly going to make sure that we got a price increase inline with whatever performance increase came with Ampere.

Something obviously overruled them.

Either we (the consumers) refused to buy enough of the overpriced Turing stuff or, Nvidia is expecting real competition. It could be a bit of both too.

Corporations do NOT have all the power some people seem to think they have.

 

[LePhuronn]

If AMD bring out a card 10% faster than the 3080, they just price it at $699/£650 the same as the 3080. That would be the smart play, capitalize on nVidia's b0rked launch and other issues so far with the 30x0 series which merely tops off the negative sentiment the 20x0 series left in peoples' mouths ... Even if AMD don't make money on this gen's units and just break even - the mindshare is far far more important at the minute, AMD need more of the GPU pie long term.

Oh I agree, but there's no way in hell AMD - or more specifically RTG - are going to play the long game and charge 3080 money for 3080+10% performance. Like I said, 3080+10% is half way to 3090, and some mentalist is going to push a grand for it.

 

[The Old School Gamer]

You have to hate these people.....

3080: 29.8 TLFOPs
Big Navi: 22.5 TFLOPs

Therefore Big Navi = 3070 <> 3080.

As if Compute = Gaming performance.

By their measure a 3080 is a 2080TI +250%.

Idiots...

Yup statistical performance metrics don't tell the true story.
In-game overlay benching and comparisons is the only truth that matters.

 

[Richdog]

And herein lies the problem: AMD won't price a 3090 nipper less than the 3080. They probably wouldn't charge the full £1,400 for it, but however "disruptive" AMD want or claim to be, they won't be disruptive to their own profit margins or shareholders; those leeching trash bags will kick TF off if AMD "give away" a 3090 beater for 3080 money.

AMD must play the price-performance game whilst navigating the tricky waters of mindshare, perception and their own "we're not a budget brand" foot-shooting.

Add to that, there isn't actually much of a gap between 3080 and 3090 performance, which can make pricing more difficult. Consider these simplified numbers:

3090 is 20% greater than 3080, 3090 is £700 more expensive than 3080
6900XT comes in 10% greater than 3080: how the hell do AMD price that?

Shareholders would likely want it to be £1,299 (which is 70% of the price delta for 50% of the performance delta), mindshare (or lack thereof) would almost demand it be £899. AMD might go for £999 but that would **** of both parties.

I think your figures seem really off. Even if the 6900XT is as fast, or just faster, than a 3080 then it has to be a similar price or cheaper as a 3080 or it will surely not be a major success. The 3090 is barely faster than a 3080 and represents god-awful value so the 3080 is THE card that AMD has to compete with at the high-end. They have to convince people to buy a 6900XT instead of a 3080,a card which is already being hailed as fantastic value.

There seems to be a notable gap in specs between Navi 21 and Navi 22, so the Navi 21 is going to be competing with the 3080 then how can they price it at £1200 and then have their next best performing Navi 22 card competing with a 3060 or 3070? I don't see the logic in that.

 

[LePhuronn]

The "shareholders" of Nvidia were supposedly going to make sure that we got a price increase inline with whatever performance increase came with Ampere.

Something obviously overruled them.

But has it though? The MSRP of the 3080 Founders is just mindshare marketing and obfuscation. In very real terms, the customer is not getting a 3080 for less than £800 any time soon (arguably ever because those Founders cards will never be in plentiful stock to feed demand, therefore sales are pushed onto AIBs who have chunky markups). So although that's not 2080 Ti money, it's still a wedge over MSRP.

This is a deliberate, insidious and genius move to maintain margins whilst still looking like value. And it's worked, because you just know that the RX 6000 series will be compared to the 3000 Founders, fake MSRP included, with all the negativity that'll bring.

We've already seen on these forums people were arguing the toss over how the 2070 Super was much better value than the 5700XT because they were comparing a bargin-basement KFA job with the uber-built Sapphire Nitro+: why buy a £480 5700XT when you can get a £420 2070S? It'll be the same again: why buy a £700 6800XT when you can get a 3080 Founders for the same money? (despite never being able to get a Founders).

 

[LePhuronn]

I think your figures seem really off. Even if the 6900XT is as fast, or just faster, than a 3080 then it has to be a similar price or cheaper as a 3080 or it will surely not be a major success.

The figures are simplified to illustrate the point you've just confirmed. If AMD's superior card has to be priced cheaper than the Nvidia card it beats in order to be a "success" then that's the major mindshare deficit talking.

Take the tech on merit, way up pros and cons and if all things considered the AMD card is superior to the Nvidia card by X amount then why shouldn't it be charged accordingly? But no, it's AMD so it must be cheaper otherwise it's a failure.