An outdoors radiator??

KFG256 · 25 May 2018 at 17:59

Having a think about moving to water cooling and wanted to pick the community's brains on an unusual idea:

My PC is next to an external wall. Other side of the wall is a narrow-ish (c.40cm) gap between my wall and next door. The gap is my land and I have access, but it isn't particularly visible to anyone. I was wondering, why not put an all-weather enclosure up on the exterior wall with a radiator in it and feed power and the fluid tubing through a hole in the wall directly into the back of the outdoors radiator. Heat is then pumped directly out of the room (and house). No fans in the case, completely cool and quiet.

That idea is simple enough. But then I started wondering if having fans outside would be a bad idea due to noise (annoy neighbours!) and they might get grubby, even though in an enclosure. But given I can have a radiator/heatsink that's as big as I like (so long as I can buy it & lift it), would it be possible to operate the radiator passively?

Big question then: where the hell would I get a radiator big enough to cool an overclocked, dual GPU system passively? How big do you think it would need to be? Anyone ever seen an example of something like this working?

LuckyBenski · 25 May 2018 at 19:14

Well.... You got any big white things that heat up your rooms? Those are radiators! Seriously, it's been done before.

Before purpose-made PC radiators, people often used car heat exchangers which are bulkier and maybe more effective.

In terms of noise, well a fan is quieter outdoors compared to environmental noise, plus it would have to travel through walls/windows to annoy neighbours. But I'd be careful assuming there are no fans needed in your PC. You will need at least a fan or two to eject warm air from the case for VRM, chipset etc cooling.

KFG256 · 25 May 2018 at 19:27

Ha! Good point about those strange white objects. Liquid volume might be a problem though. Might need to think carefully about the pump.

Car heat exchanger sounds good. Will look into it.

Alternative might just be to just put a few (cheap) PC radiators in series. Again, so long as the pump can take it.

Oh, and accept your point about not being completely fanless. Quite right, just me getting a bit carried away!

LuckyBenski · 25 May 2018 at 19:33

Honestly, I'm obsessed with silence and if I wasn't so uneasy about long tubes and outdoor components I'd try it. Lots of obvious benefits, though maybe better suited for a crazy high power consumption device than a PC

Habakkuk · 26 May 2018 at 16:47

Will it work? sure!

You'll need to make sure the returning fluid isn't too cold, as then you can get condensation in the computer.

Habakkuk · 26 May 2018 at 16:48

(relative to the room's temperature at least)

KFG256 · 26 May 2018 at 17:22

That's a really good point. Hadn't thought about condensation. Could cause some real problems in winter as the outdoor temperature really drops.

Damn. Was starting to like the idea.

K Olley · 26 May 2018 at 18:47

I am doing something similar for additional cooling but only for summer use, I am having some cooling - overheating problems.

Making up a radiator 480 x 120 with fans on a stand that I can place outside, power and tubing passing through a window, connection will be via quick release connectors so that I can easily remove and replace with a straight loop when not needed.

Habakkuk · 27 May 2018 at 06:30

Consider glycol instead of just water - it has a lower freezing point

KFG256 said:
Damn. Was starting to like the idea.

It will need additional anti-corrosive agents.

Dempsey22 · 27 May 2018 at 18:30

@String done a great external radiator setup. He might weigh in here and link you to his setup.

KFG256 · 28 May 2018 at 08:59

Would be great to see something like this working for inspiration.

Been thinking about the condensation issue. Shouldn't think the tubing itself would have big condensation problems as not very thermally conductive - issue is more the metal parts inside the rig. If there were electrically switched valves that separated fluid from the outside rad when the PC was off, then should keep the kit at room temperature most of the time. Fluid only flows when the PC is on and kicking out heat.

The Artfull Bodger · 28 May 2018 at 09:26

The blue poly pipe coming into houses suffers from condensation in winter so I reckon everything in contact with fluid will drip water when running and in summer if sun hits your enclosure it will be counter productive generating heat.

KFG256 · 28 May 2018 at 09:57

How about having a little foam insulation around the incoming pipe leading up to the component in the case? That plus the solenoid valves might cover it. Sun hitting the enclosure isn't a problem because of location, so condensation looks like the main challenge.

I think I'm just trying to convince myself at this stage! Might be a project to put on hold until the weather drops and then do some sort of basic test with a pump, rad & some pipes to see how it behaves. Waiting until Autumn wont make too much difference as probably wouldn't have enough money until back end of the summer anyway.

Good discussion though - still hoping to find someone that's actually done something like this and overcome some of these problems. Or maybe no one has done it. Because it's mad...

LuckyBenski · 28 May 2018 at 10:16

Massively overcomplicated now. Electronic control and automation? To manage how many watts of power? Remote radiator is a sensible idea but don't add risk, expense, complication, to a problem you could solve by buying an AC unit, opening a window or just using a bigger case for.

Focus on this when planning, because it IS good to discuss and roll ideas around even if far fetched.

- what are your goals?
- what are your requirements?
- do you have any hard yes/no policies/dealbreakers such as not working with mains?

The Artfull Bodger · 28 May 2018 at 10:19

Maybe if you had an internal rad aswell and a blending valve connected outside the pc so you could restrict how much of the cold fluid mixes with the internal you might be able to get a balance to prevent condensation, this would however create a lot of restriction for your pump/s.

KFG256 · 28 May 2018 at 10:40

OK, point taken about risk of over complicating. Goal here is just to make best use of the position of the PC to shift heat effectively and quietly. Given I've got an out-of-the-way external wall just a few centimetres from the back of my PC, it seemed like a good way to permanently 'open a window':

Adding the solenoids increases complexity, but not by much, I think. Just need them to trigger off the PC power supply at switch-on.

LuckyBenski · 28 May 2018 at 10:52

KFG256 said:
OK, point taken about risk of over complicating. Goal here is just to make best use of the position of the PC to shift heat effectively and quietly. Given I've got an out-of-the-way external wall just a few centimetres from the back of my PC, it seemed like a good way to permanently 'open a window':

Adding the solenoids increases complexity, but not by much, I think. Just need them to trigger off the PC power supply at switch-on.

Now that's quite sensible - they don't rely on any logic, or user interaction, or software. Just "If PC is on, make pipes go open now".

Curve ball question: why not install a big reservoir rather than a radiator? 10-20L of water will hold tons of energy and dissipate it at a reasonable rate in the open air. All this might be quite ineffective in summer though.

KFG256 · 28 May 2018 at 11:13

I guess it would come down to which is cheaper and easier to install. Any ideas where I could get (or build) a reservoir of that size?

KFG256 · 28 May 2018 at 11:40

Something like this would do it:
https://www.tanks-direct.co.uk/wate...r-tanks/25-litre-water-tank-with-handles.html

They even offer to add an extra 'outlet' (inlet!) at the bottom of the page. Could work. Buying all the coolant might be the most expensive bit! Do like the simplicity though of just having a fluid tank outside. Don't need to fix to the wall, just need to put a basic enclosure around it.

LuckyBenski · 28 May 2018 at 11:43

Yep, I've looked at bulk distilled water for cooling a laser cutter. Need 35L+. It seems cheap for a PC but at that quantity it's not so cheap!