And boomers wonder why millennials are bitter towards them..

[Freefaller]

Indeed!

I had a good 2 year period where I floated about with little ambition, envious of those who seemed to be gifted opportunities and fell on their feet before snapping out of it and deciding to take control.

I took a massive gamble switching careers wholesale at the age of almost 40, going from a large established multinational with defined career paths in an industry I know like the back of my hand, to a small and relatively insecure company in a totally different arena that in all honesty I knew very little about even after all the prep I put in. In my first three months I was convinced I'd made the wrong choice and that I wasn't good enough - I've never felt like such a charlatan.
Happily my fears were never realised and I made a good choice.

I'll never be rich, I'll probably never really be that well off, but I'm definitely more secure and better off than I was two years ago.

Sure, sometimes bad things happen to good people, but generally those who demonstrate the right work ethic and apply themselves properly are those who profit, and that's absolutely how it should be.

I took a big gamble, quit my job in the middle of covid (after applying for a new job, so now have to survive the probationary period!), and took a significant paycut (but at least I get my full tax free allowance again!) - but long term it will offer many more opportunities and make me enjoy life that little bit more. Short term pain, long term gain (hopefully). IT's about being strategic, making your own luck, and taking some chances.

I'll never be super rich, I will continue to work for organisations rather than running my own business. Sure as a family we own more than 1 property - but **** me if it hasn't been a hard graft and painful journey.

I was determined to become chartered (engineer) before I turned 40, and succeeded. I also have taken on more training and developed extra skills to make me more employable in a broader sector than I was in previously. All these weekend working, long hours and missing out time with the kids, was worth it, as I am now where I am and spending more time with the kids than ever before, and enjoying life again.

It may all fall flat on its face - but at least I've given something a go.

 

[do_ron_ron]

House prices have always been set at what the maximum the market will bear whatever the age.

 

[Woden]

Who gave that as a reason?

Have you been reading the thread? There is basically 2 arguments against fixing the housing markets. Either issues that make it difficult, both real and imaginary, or the general idea that low paid workers don't deserve any kind of security in their housing.

 

[Tombstone]

How much do you think its cost you to get to this point (e.g what do you think the gain is once you take out your mortgage payments and initial deposit)?

I'd have to look into the figures but I'd suspect that I'm probably up and up a fair bit too. In raw terms of prices, it was £110,000 up for the first house, £60,000 up for the 2nd house and the current house sits valued at £130,000 up and rising at a crazy rate per year. The money I made from the first house allowed me to have a miniscule mortgage on the 2nd house which meant that I made a healthy profit on that second house after it sold for £207k. I stuck 40k of that 207k down on the third house and pocketed the remainder. I'm convinced that the "comfortable" life I lead now, financially speaking, is down to the house market sales I've made in my life.

 

[Freefaller]

I do feel for the young of today, its so difficult for them to get onto the housing ladder. When thinking back to my youth, when I was 22 years old I bought my first house , a 2 bedroom terraced house, for £31,000 which years later I sold for £140,000 and bought my second house, a 3 bedroom terraced house, for £147,000. I stayed in that house for several years and then sold it for £207,000 and bought a 3 bedroom semi detached for £219,000 which is currently valued at £350,000. Its crazy now, looking back at my first house costing £31k in total, an amount which today would probably only cover a deposit on an identical house. We're not even talking a huge amount of time ago, it was only the mid 1990s

But conversely I know of a lot of younger people in their early 20s (yes that's young....) who are house sharing, and saving money, and not going out getting trollied every night, and being sensible with their money, but also focussing their attention on developing skills, and professional networks. I'm a professional mentor, and I've helped dozens of young professionals establish themselves over the last 6 years or so. The majority of them aren't spoilt brats or haven't had hand-me-downs. They're earning a little above the national average, but are being sensible, whilst still being young and having fun.

Many of them are on target to have enough for a deposit in their mid to late 20s. I think that's really good. Although it's not their target or goal (I'm there to help them develop professionally, I'm not a financial advisor) they say that it is on their plan - to not only improve their employability but to be able to see the fruits of their labour. So I think there is a will for young people to achieve, but we need more people like these young adults who are doing extra curricular work / activity to better themselves and make themselves stand apart from the crowd.

I get it, it's SUPER competitive out there, it really is dog eat dog, but if you're not willing to learn how to eat a bigger dog, or don't try, then you can't really complain.

 

[Tombstone]

But conversely I know of a lot of younger people in their early 20s (yes that's young....) who are house sharing, and saving money, and not going out getting trollied every night, and being sensible with their money, but also focussing their attention on developing skills, and professional networks. I'm a professional mentor, and I've helped dozens of young professionals establish themselves over the last 6 years or so. The majority of them aren't spoilt brats or haven't had hand-me-downs. They're earning a little above the national average, but are being sensible, whilst still being young and having fun.

Many of them are on target to have enough for a deposit in their mid to late 20s. I think that's really good. Although it's not their target or goal (I'm there to help them develop professionally, I'm not a financial advisor) they say that it is on their plan - to not only improve their employability but to be able to see the fruits of their labour. So I think there is a will for young people to achieve, but we need more people like these young adults who are doing extra curricular work / activity to better themselves and make themselves stand apart from the crowd.

I get it, it's SUPER competitive out there, it really is dog eat dog, but if you're not willing to learn how to eat a bigger dog, or don't try, then you can't really complain.

I'm sure there is, I dont doubt there are some who are precisely as you describe, however I still feel for the young, imo its without question far far tougher for them to get on the housing ladder today, irrespective of graft, than it was in the days of my youth.

 

[Woden]

But conversely I know of a lot of younger people in their early 20s (yes that's young....) who are house sharing, and saving money, and not going out getting trollied every night, and being sensible with their money, but also focussing their attention on developing skills, and professional networks. I'm a professional mentor, and I've helped dozens of young professionals establish themselves over the last 6 years or so. The majority of them aren't spoilt brats or haven't had hand-me-downs. They're earning a little above the national average, but are being sensible, whilst still being young and having fun.

Many of them are on target to have enough for a deposit in their mid to late 20s. I think that's really good. Although it's not their target or goal (I'm there to help them develop professionally, I'm not a financial advisor) they say that it is on their plan - to not only improve their employability but to be able to see the fruits of their labour. So I think there is a will for young people to achieve, but we need more people like these young adults who are doing extra curricular work / activity to better themselves and make themselves stand apart from the crowd.

I get it, it's SUPER competitive out there, it really is dog eat dog, but if you're not willing to learn how to eat a bigger dog, or don't try, then you can't really complain.

That's great. No sarcasm, it really is.

But again it only works on the individual level. We can't have the whole country doing that. We still need cleaners, shelf stackers, unskilled warehouse staff. They also need affordable places to live.

 

[FoxEye]

But conversely I know of a lot of younger people in their early 20s (yes that's young....) who are house sharing, and saving money, and not going out getting trollied every night, and being sensible with their money, but also focussing their attention on developing skills, and professional networks. I'm a professional mentor, and I've helped dozens of young professionals establish themselves over the last 6 years or so. The majority of them aren't spoilt brats or haven't had hand-me-downs. They're earning a little above the national average, but are being sensible, whilst still being young and having fun.

Many of them are on target to have enough for a deposit in their mid to late 20s. I think that's really good. Although it's not their target or goal (I'm there to help them develop professionally, I'm not a financial advisor) they say that it is on their plan - to not only improve their employability but to be able to see the fruits of their labour. So I think there is a will for young people to achieve, but we need more people like these young adults who are doing extra curricular work / activity to better themselves and make themselves stand apart from the crowd.

I get it, it's SUPER competitive out there, it really is dog eat dog, but if you're not willing to learn how to eat a bigger dog, or don't try, then you can't really complain.

Hold on, being able to save enough for a deposit (only) by your late 20s is considered a success story?

A deposit being <=15% of the cost of the house, only?

So effectively being in debt for another 20 years or so after... and that's for professional people on average wage as you say.

Compared to a couple decades ago, that's a stupendously awful deal.

Being able to afford a deposit before you hit 30 (as a professional) is considered a huge success these days. Just lol. The market is fubar if that's the best we can do, eh?

 

[Raikiri]

Being able to afford a deposit before you hit 30 (as a professional) is considered a huge success these days. Just lol. The market is fubar if that's the best we can do, eh?

No it's fine. Owning a roof above your head should be a lifetime debt unless you're wealthy enough to own multiple have have other idiots pay them off for you (It's me, I'm one of those idiots).

 

[Freefaller]

That's great. No sarcasm, it really is.

But again it only works on the individual level. We can't have the whole country doing that. We still need cleaners, shelf stackers, unskilled warehouse staff. They also need affordable places to live.

So? It might take them longer or... they rent until they don't need to. But I think the problem is rents in this country are disproportionally high - compared to the continent who do renting well. On that I agree, rents are high, but also renting isn't a bad thing to do either.

Hold on, being able to save enough for a deposit (only) by your late 20s is considered a success story?

A deposit being <=15% of the cost of the house, only?

So effectively being in debt for another 20 years or so after... and that's for professional people on average wage as you say.

Compared to a couple decades ago, that's a stupendously awful deal.

Being able to afford a deposit before you hit 30 (as a professional) is considered a huge success these days. Just lol. The market is fubar if that's the best we can do, eh?

Yes it is a success story. 20s is young and owning a house in your 20s is pretty amazing.

So, the landscape has changed, as have jobs and skills. People aren't adapting.

I do accept the housing market / rental market hasn't evolved either - but it's also still accessible if you want it to be. Why compare to a couple of decades ago? Inflation is a thing. What £1 buys you 20 years ago isn;'t the same as it does now. It's just the way it is - relatively basic economics surely?

I'm not disagreeing there needs to be a bit of a change to the rental market, to make renting more appealing - but at the same time people aren't willing to move where the work is or feel entitled to live in Park Lane. There has to be compromise somewhere.

 

[dowie]

Have you been reading the thread?

Yes I have read the thread - who gave that as a reason?

 

[WantoN]

The bolded line is the truth.
Anyone would have done the same. It's not their fault. It's just the roulette wheel of life.

That's not to say we couldn't, as a society, make things better.


Still think it's a time bomb. Fewer assets going forward. Everyone subscribes. Even to housing (rent)
At some point you're going to be stuffed.
We are going back on time where a few people have the vast majority of the cash.
We either get used to it. Or make changes. I bet we just have to get used to it.

Let's say I get to 65, can't work, ive been renting.
I might not have any pension. I might not have and savings. The young (who may have even less) can't pay for me.

Time to be put out to pasture


I'm scared of my health too.
It's why if I had to start again now I think I'd give up. I'd never pay off my house. I don't think I have enough 'healthy' years left.

Just to be clear, I'm not a Boomer, I'm a Xennial; mid-30s.

Ill health is absolutely not just for the old

 

[FoxEye]

Yes it is a success story. 20s is young and owning a house in your 20s is pretty amazing.

So, the landscape has changed, as have jobs and skills. People aren't adapting.

I do accept the housing market / rental market hasn't evolved either - but it's also still accessible if you want it to be. Why compare to a couple of decades ago? Inflation is a thing. What £1 buys you 20 years ago isn;'t the same as it does now. It's just the way it is - relatively basic economics surely?

I'm not disagreeing there needs to be a bit of a change to the rental market, to make renting more appealing - but at the same time people aren't willing to move where the work is or feel entitled to live in Park Lane. There has to be compromise somewhere.

We're reducing home ownership to a slightly different format of renting, in that case, I guess.

You now "own" your house when you put down 15% deposit at ~30, and spend the rest your life renting it from the bank

Because if it's taken you ~30 years to save 15%, then it's quite likely you'll need another 40 years to acquire the remaining 85%, if you ever do.

Unless you're expecting all these people (starting at average wage) to have exponential wage growth in their 30s and 40s.

 

[Haggisman]

Hold on, being able to save enough for a deposit (only) by your late 20s is considered a success story?

A deposit being <=15% of the cost of the house, only?

So effectively being in debt for another 20 years or so after... and that's for professional people on average wage as you say.

Compared to a couple decades ago, that's a stupendously awful deal.

Being able to afford a deposit before you hit 30 (as a professional) is considered a huge success these days. Just lol. The market is fubar if that's the best we can do, eh?

Bear in mind people are living longer, which means

A) less houses returning to the "pool" when old people shuffle off
B) you can get a mortgage into your 60s, so starting 10-15 years later isn't so bad

 

[FoxEye]

Bear in mind people are living longer, which means

A) less houses returning to the "pool" when old people shuffle off
B) you can get a mortgage into your 60s, so starting 10-15 years later isn't so bad

But when houses were a multiple of ~4 times salary, you could pay off your mortgage entirely in less than 10 years.

Now very many people are looking at a lifetime of debt.

I can see why many people are invested in house prices rising.

It's the only way you can short-circuit the system. Given that actually paying off your mortgage might take you the rest of your life, a better option is to enjoy massive house price inflation, then sell up/cash in and take the money/positive equity and buy somewhere else/abroad.

But honestly, if it's taken you ~30 years to save your deposit, you aren't paying off the 85% in 10 years or anywhere near it.

This model basically only works if you're going to be earning 100k by your 40s.

 

[Haggisman]

But honestly, if it's taken you ~30 years to save your deposit, you aren't paying off the 85% in 10 years or anywhere near it.

I thought one of your arguments was that mortgages are cheaper than renting?

Also, most people don't start saving from the moment they are born, more like when they finish school/uni at 16-18, so it's more like 15 years to save the deposit

 

[FoxEye]

I thought one of your arguments was that mortgages are cheaper than renting?

Also, most people don't start saving from the moment they are born, more like when they finish school/uni at 16-18, so it's more like 15 years to save the deposit

They are, sure. A mortgage is definitely the least worst option.

Doesn't stop a mortgage being more of a burden today than it was a couple decades ago when the multiple was ~4 times your salary.

Even if you start from 21, that's 9 years to save 15%. So unless you assume that these are professional people who will go on to command 100k salaries, if they remain on average wage then they'd be paying it off for the next 63 years, assuming they live that long

Technically it's home ownership, but it's a life-long debt burden too.

In any case, we/I was talking about low-earners, by definition on less than average wage.

Taking the starting point of a deposit at 30, I can't see any way that you wouldn't basically be making mortgage payments for the rest of your life, unless you managed to get to average wage or significantly above it.

 

[BongoHunter]

What's with all the crazy all of a sudden

Just because someone's got a 15% deposit at age 30 does not mean it took them 30 years to accumulate it - and has no bearing on what might be a realistic timescale to pay it off (earnings go up normally)

Crazy

Edit: I see it was a more limited breakout than I feared - thank god

Edit2: @FoxEye - actually I think its just you.

 

[MikeTimbers]

Back when the boomers were buying their houses, most lower-paid workers were not. They were getting subsidised rented housing from the local council who had built housing estates back in the fifties and were making money renting them out.

Then Thatcher pushed a law that allowed the council tenants to buy their council houses at below market price so much of the council housing passed into private hands.

An entire layer of the population then was unable to get into such subsidised rental housing and has had to then rent privately massively pushing up rental prices.

This has nothing to do with the boomers (apart from probably having voted for Thatcher). Those who bought their council houses also did very well out of it.

Since then, levels of housebuilding by councils have been pitiful. Whether they simply can't raise the capital or don't have the land, they've not been building cheap homes.

Go to your MP. Ask what is planned by their party to provide replacements for the lost council housing. There is no other solution. The return of council housing would resolve most of the problems complained of in this long thread.

 

[Puzzled]

It's ok once you have finally paid off that mortage you can look forward to a few years of owning your home before it gets taken away to cover your care costs

Im sure the government prefers people to be in lifetime debt. Makes them more predictable and less likely to make risky decisions. I know some employers see someone with a mortage as being more reliable, less likely to just leave as they have too much to lose.