Anyone worked in F1?

[Burbleflop]

I was offered a job working for Honda F1 at the engine factory in Bracknell a few years ago. Not taking it is one of the few things I regret.

 

[leaskovski]

I was offered a job working for Honda F1 at the engine factory in Bracknell a few years ago. Not taking it is one of the few things I regret.

heh, just think... it could have been you that the plonker Jenson would have been moaning about.... Boho, my Honda has broken down. That will teach him to bad mouth Williams!

 

[Spanker]

Sure Flibster works with the parts (suspension set ups) on F1 ? He may well have an idea.

 

[KaHn]

Another question for the OP....

I know that marine fluid-dynamicists are looking at things that replicate fish skin in order to reduce drag/turbulance on submarines - has the same thing ever been considered for aero drag ? The peregrine falcon can reach over 100mph in level flight - low drag or what !

Ill add a side comment to nicks words, a lot of work has been produced on the "fish scales" or riblets (thats what they were introduced to us as) for use in the aero industry but were not feasible due to manufacturing cost at a large scale (hence why F1 are looking at it for minimal gains) which out weighed the overall aerodynamic gains, due to difference in flow conditions for marine engineers it is a topic they are looking at. The aero industry are looking more into vane vortex generators, as said one which dont stick out in the freestream.

Also as for the riblets thing again, these are currently being used on things like america cup yachts and oil piplines.

but like i said the typical drag reduction in air is around 1-2%

KaHn

/edit:- Also well done Nick for getting interviews etc, hope all goes well

 

[Zip]

Has anyone worked in F1 or more specifically, been to an interview?

I've got an interview with the Computational Aerodynamics section at Renault next week, and I've got absolutely no idea what to expect in terms of the technical side. I've been scheduled quite late in the day to have an intervew with the head of the department so I doubt the process will take very long - its not a full day assessment day as has become so common in engineering these days.

My CFD knowledge is pretty good, aerodynamics knowledge even better and due to me being a bit of a F1 geek I know quite a lot about the Team and its history, as well as current F1 technology, rules etc etc. I just hope he doesnt sit me down with a sheet of paper and asks me to solve PDEs or derive the potential flow around a cylinder or something silly along those lines - I've forgotten most of that crap!

Go to the motors forum and ask a guy called Flibster if you have many questions about it.
He used to work in F1

 

[NicktheNorse]

/edit:- Also well done Nick for getting interviews etc, hope all goes well

cheers mate

And im on my way to motors now!

 

[cossey3]

I've got a few friends doing EE here at Imperial... They are weird

are you doing mech or aero eng? and there are some very wierd people in EEE

 

[NicktheNorse]

are you doing mech or aero eng? and there are some very wierd people in EEE

aero! there are some weird people in mech eng as well

 

[Zip]

aero! there are some weird people in mech eng as well

IIRC Flibster was doing a course at Uni or somewhere on Areo when he was offerd his job with the whole motor sport and F1 thing.
He is the guy to ask.
You will find him in the F1 threads in the motors section

 

[cossey3]

aero! there are some weird people in mech eng as well

oi
actually now you mention it i dont think there is a sane lecturer in the dept tbh, there seems to be more than a few very strange ppl at imperial.

 

[Flibster]

Who what where when???

Someone mentioned my name??

Job in F1 eh?

IMHO - Don't go with Renault.

I'm expecting them to announce their departure from the sport at the end of 2007.

Also wouldn't go with Ferrari - but for entirely different reasons *worked with them before - and never, ever again*

Personally I'd be looking at McLaren, Honda and Red Bull/Toro Rosso *just for the experience of working under Adrian Newey - who frankly is a god.*

With the future of F1 undecided at the moment It's not a time I'd want to start looking tbh.

Best team I've ever worked with though no longer exists. I miss Prost with his big bent French nose... They had a R&D budget that was enormous *and we ate a large chunk of it for them *

Although best for fun while working for them was McLaren - They look utter professionals and they are - but they can still have fun. Plus Mika was great and would always be happy to have a chat about any changes he wanted rather than just going to his race engineer and saying "Get it sorted out"

Simon/~Flibster

 

[NicktheNorse]

IMHO - Don't go with Renault.

I'm expecting them to announce their departure from the sport at the end of 2007.

Eh? How does that make any sense? Why would a team who looks like they are going to win their second world championship title in a row leave the sport the year after?

Also wouldn't go with Ferrari - but for entirely different reasons *worked with them before - and never, ever again*

Personally I'd be looking at McLaren, Honda and Red Bull/Toro Rosso *just for the experience of working under Adrian Newey - who frankly is a god.*

I'm sure I don't have to tell you, but as a graduate I'm not in any sort of position to actually be able to pick and choose which team I try to go for. Getting a foot in the F1 door is all I'm looking to do atm.

Although best for fun while working for them was McLaren - They look utter professionals and they are - but they can still have fun. Plus Mika was great and would always be happy to have a chat about any changes he wanted rather than just going to his race engineer and saying "Get it sorted out"

McLaren just isn't going to happen - they have the strictest employment regime out of any team. The only way to get a parking permit at Paragon is to have significant F1 experience or do a PhD for them.

I'm gonna go along to the Renault interview with an open (and excited!) mind and give it my best. Hopefully I'll be able to convince the head of the CFD department that I'm exactly what they are looking for. If the job doesn't agree with me I can always leave - and its not as if having F1 Aerodynamics experience on my CV is going to hurt my future endeavours.

Thanks for the words of advice.

 

[Vertigo]

Type 1: Vortex generators that stick out into the free stream = good
Type 2: Vortex generators that dont stick out in the free stream = excellent

Fish scales = Type 2. And yes, they have been used in "aero" drag.

They had a test on Mythbusters a while back to see if a pickup truck created more drag with the tailgate up or down and discovered that it was more efficient with it up as a vortex of air became "trapped" in the load bay area which sort of helped the airflow above it. I presume this was the same effect you're describing?

pedantic: there is no difference with drag in air or water - the principles are all the same - and they fall under fluid mechanics. its just the viscosity that changes.

Yep, not all fluids are liquids but all liquids are fluids. As is glass incidentally!

 

[JRS]

Eh? How does that make any sense? Why would a team who looks like they are going to win their second world championship title in a row leave the sport the year after?

Why stay in it? Renault can't keep funding an F1 effort forever, and since it's highly unlikely that they're selling any more Clios after a World Championship win than they were beforehand....besides, with Michelin about to chip off out of F1 (read: with Michelin leaving F1 in a strop rather than staying and fighting for the rights to be F1's sole supplier when the rules change) they're going to lose one of their major advantages over the Scuderia.

I'm gonna go along to the Renault interview with an open (and excited!) mind and give it my best. Hopefully I'll be able to convince the head of the CFD department that I'm exactly what they are looking for. If the job doesn't agree with me I can always leave - and its not as if having F1 Aerodynamics experience on my CV is going to hurt my future endeavours.

Probably the best way to play it. Good luck!

 

[NicktheNorse]

They had a test on Mythbusters a while back to see if a pickup truck created more drag with the tailgate up or down and discovered that it was more efficient with it up as a vortex of air became "trapped" in the load bay area which sort of helped the airflow above it. I presume this was the same effect you're describing?

Actually no, this effect is different. The use of the word "vortex" in the case of the pickup truck is different to the use for a vortex generator.

You are right though in saying air gets trapped in the bay area. For a pickup with the tailgate up you get a region of recirculation inside the load bay, and its classically defined as an "open cavity flow." My final year project is actually on acoustic emissions from different cavities, so I happen to know quite a bit about this particular field

If you limit yourself to looking at the time-averaged situation, effectively what you have is a dividing streamline between the airflow outside of the bay created by the top "surface" of the recirculation bubble. This does help keep external flow from dipping below the top of the loadbay, and reduces the overall pressure drag compared to the situation of having the tailgate down.

Essentially what you get is this (very simplified!):

However this type of situation does have several other important effects - most noticeably potentially destructive vibrations caused by vortex shedding from the front edge of the load bay, and a dynamic oscillation of what becomes the free shear layer over the top of the load bay. This is all taken into account in the pickup design, so it doesnt really make too much difference to the driver. It'd be pretty uncomfortable to lie inside the loadbay when the pickup is doing 100mph+, you'd feel like your ears were constantly popping!

If the loadbay is covered the drag is much much lower than if its exposed - irrespective of the position of the tailgate.

 

[NicktheNorse]

Why stay in it?

Err because it earns them millions and millions of £ every year!

Renault can't keep funding an F1 effort forever, and since it's highly unlikely that they're selling any more Clios after a World Championship win than they were beforehand.

Financially speaking, the Renault F1 team is completely separate from the French manufacturer. In fact, the F1 team is a British limited company. This is actually the case with most of the teams.

Probably the best way to play it. Good luck!

Thanks

 

[leaskovski]

With the future of F1 undecided at the moment It's not a time I'd want to start looking tbh.

Depends whos side you look at TBH.

 

[kaiowas]

Err because it earns them millions and millions of £ every year!

Please explain.

The manufacturers pump stupid amounts of money into F1 and see next to no return on it. The only reason any of the manufacturers are there is because senior managers have somehaow managed to fool the shareholders into letting them play with the ultimate scalextric set at their expense.

 

[Lagz]

Err because it earns them millions and millions of £ every year!

Sure you dont mean 'lose' instead of 'earn'. I thought all F1 teams ran at a loss?

 

[SDK^]

Eh? How does that make any sense? Why would a team who looks like they are going to win their second world championship title in a row leave the sport the year after?

The same reason they pulled out of supplying engines in F1 after 1997, their engines had been in World Champion winning cars since 1992 but they were a victim of their own success.

The engine was so reliable that the rare failures that did occur got more media and press coverage than the successes.