Apple might be working on an ARM-based console

[HACO]

Source: https://wccftech.com/apple-arm-based-console-development/

Take it with a grain of salt given the source, but it seems like a logical next step for them to enter the console market in the next few years.

They already have a de-facto console (Apple TV), which you can connect wireless controllers to (including Xbox and PS4) and play iOS games. But that's for casual gaming, not serious AAA titles.

In terms of processing power, A12X was more or less at the same level as Xbox One S or PS4 (non-pro version), and next gen consoles are expected to be about 5x faster than that. Apple's GPUs are not there yet, but this product isn't being released this year for sure, and they have a few years to catch up.

Console upgrade cycle is about 7 years, and they do a refresh mid-cycle for the "pro" versions. We might see Apple become competitive around mid-cycle at this generation (2023-2024).

The more important part of it are the titles, whether Apple might buy some game studios to make exclusive content or pay studios to release their AAA titles for Apple platform as well as Windows/Xbox/PS, who knows. They might be looking at a unified gaming platform (desktop, laptop, console, mobile) with their products since they all will be running the same family of chips and Metal. Gaming industry is huge and it's not like Apple to pass up on this opportunity.

More competition can only be good for us in the end.

 

[Shmiler]

Interesting stuff. If they can get third party developers on board then it would have a chance. Apple certainly have plenty of money to throw around..

 

[HACO]

Interesting stuff. If they can get third party developers on board then it would have a chance. Apple certainly have plenty of money to throw around..

Yeah, I mean, they’re making their own movies and TV shows now! They can certainly make their own video games (by commissioning a studio to do it obviously like they do with their tv shows).

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I really doubt it, this is one of those occasions where I just don’t see the gap in the market. We already have PC, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. Do we really need a 5th?

Could I see them repositioning their Apple TV box a bit? Yes absolutely but I just don’t see them making a full fledged console.

Nintendo only get away with charging so much for their low end hardware is because of their IP which people can’t get enough of.

People spend loads on their mobile games but no one associates Apple with ‘gaming’.

 

[HACO]

I really doubt it, this is one of those occasions where I just don’t see the gap in the market. We already have PC, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. Do we really need a 5th?

Could I see them repositioning their Apple TV box a bit? Yes absolutely but I just don’t see them making a full fledged console.

Nintendo only get away with charging so much for their low end hardware is because of their IP which people can’t get enough of.

People spend loads on their mobile games but no one associates Apple with ‘gaming’.

I wouldn't dismiss it so casually, Apple wasn't associated with many things that they swooped in and made themselves a major player very quickly.

The truth is that in the end it's all about the titles. That's why Nintendo are where they are. If they can insert themselves as a 5th major player, they'll have massive advantages over Sony and Microsoft with their control over the entire tech stack (CPU, GPU, OS, hardware, Metal).

It's really about the relationship between them and game developers/publishers. They obviously have to drop the ridiculous 30% fee on App Store sales!

 

[Bug One]

Maybe they could call it the Apple Shield.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I wouldn't dismiss it so casually, Apple wasn't associated with many things that they swooped in and made themselves a major player very quickly.

The truth is that in the end it's all about the titles. That's why Nintendo are where they are. If they can insert themselves as a 5th major player, they'll have massive advantages over Sony and Microsoft with their control over the entire tech stack (CPU, GPU, OS, hardware, Metal).

It's really about the relationship between them and game developers/publishers. They obviously have to drop the ridiculous 30% fee on App Store sales!

I disagree, and I’m not quick to dismiss it.

Apple has previously relied upon disrupting a market. They only gained traction because others massively dropped the ball. But in all of these markets that Apple has exploited some new tech or the market was still very immature and there was space for a new premium offering.

The different is with a game console is that the market is already saturated, extremely competitive and very mature. There also isn’t really scope for a ‘premium’ games and Microsoft and Sony have the market locked up from an IP point of view. Nintendo will carry on doing what Nintendo do regardless.

Apple will not be able to come in and sell a £600 game console without having spent tens of billions on exclusive content for it. But even to spend the money they need to convince developers they are the platform to be on. I’d rather take less money to be on Sony then take a chance with Apple.

Even if they did the chances are it wouldn’t sell either way because customers are already invested into the other two platforms, even Microsoft has had a good kicking in the last generation of consoles.

Consoles rely on a huge install base of users and it will be a tall order for Apple to come in and disrupt that, especially when you start thing about the huge backwards compatible libraries the established players have and exclusive IP.

The only way I can see them getting into this market is by the back door which is the approach they are already taking. They’ve made their existing product stack capable of gaming and they are slowly bringing more premium content to the platform. Some day you’ll see AAA quality games but it will be running on their existing device stack rather than a dedicated games console.

The Apple TV may well change but into an all rounder device with better games support but I can’t see it turning into something like a PlayStation with a strong gaming focus any time soon.

It would be like trying to launch a new mobile platform now when iOS and Android are so mature in a saturated market. Others have tried it and failed dismally.

 

[HACO]

@b0rn2sk8

Good points in general, and I don't have a strong disagreement. I however do see the console market as a market that is ready for a disruption. Microsoft and Sony haven't had real competition in well over a decade and unlike iOS and Android, they have become complacent. Every 7 years they use the off-the-shelf PC parts to refresh their consoles, and wait for another 7 years. There's a reason PC gaming has been getting more and more market share in the last decade. I don't think the disruption is happening in the next couple of years, but eventually, something might happen.

I generally agree though that "just another Xbox" isn't going to be a success for Apple. If they enter, they need to bring a major innovation that we've never seen before, like they did with phones. A new way to play games. That's difficult because everyone has failed at that, VR, Kinect, etc...

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I think it’s a bit short sighted to say Microsoft and Sony don’t have any competition, they are both very competitive with each other.

This is the first year as well that both consoles have been refreshed using a faster version of the same platform. Don’t forget the PS3 was a custom architecture and it was a complete pain to work with.

Don’t be too dismissive of Nintendo either, while they don’t engage with the who has the biggest <insert here> competition they do hoover up a big chunk of the market.

Apples big USP was meant to be AR but that hasn’t taken off in they way they would have liked but they keep pushing it. They might get there one day but if it is AR I doubt you’ll see a console type box attached to it, it will run off your phone.

 

[Squink]

Most tech-aware houses are likely to have a console, music streaming, phones, paid TV services etc, maybe a computer. The trouble is, you can't have a complete unified system made by one manufacturer. Since the phone market is reaching saturation, Apple are branching out, with subscription services being a current focus. Who's to say that down the line they won't aim to be an all-in-one, household solution for entertainment?

Personally, I can't see it happening, but it's interesting to imagine.

 

[HACO]

I think it’s a bit short sighted to say Microsoft and Sony don’t have any competition, they are both very competitive with each other.

This is the first year as well that both consoles have been refreshed using a faster version of the same platform. Don’t forget the PS3 was a custom architecture and it was a complete pain to work with.

Don’t be too dismissive of Nintendo either, while they don’t engage with the who has the biggest <insert here> competition they do hoover up a big chunk of the market.

Apples big USP was meant to be AR but that hasn’t taken off in they way they would have liked but they keep pushing it. They might get there one day but if it is AR I doubt you’ll see a console type box attached to it, it will run off your phone.

Microsoft and Sony do compete with each other, but they're both settled in their positions and this isn't a cut-throat competition. Their upgrade cycles are more or less in perfect sync now. They've implicitly agreed on some rules, use the same tech, and just compete within that narrow area.

PS3/Xbox 360 was different, but that was 13-14 years ago. So not relevant now.

Most tech-aware houses are likely to have a console, music streaming, phones, paid TV services etc, maybe a computer. The trouble is, you can't have a complete unified system made by one manufacturer. Since the phone market is reaching saturation, Apple are branching out, with subscription services being a current focus. Who's to say that down the line they won't aim to be an all-in-one, household solution for entertainment?

Personally, I can't see it happening, but it's interesting to imagine.

Apple is definitely in prime position to offer something like that. Plugging in phones, tablets, computers, music streaming, gaming, TV, smart homes and more into one platform.

 

[Ayahuasca]

It's coming bois, pepper thy anus for £1000+ consoles.

 

[Squink]

It's coming bois, pepper thy anus for £1000+ consoles.

iConsole 1 (1GB RAM, 480Gb Fusion Drive): £1099
iConsole 1 (8GB RAM, 256Gb SSD): £1699
iConsole 1 (16Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD): £2499

 

[HACO]

iConsole 1 (1GB RAM, 480Gb Fusion Drive): £1099
iConsole 1 (8GB RAM, 256Gb SSD): £1699
iConsole 1 (16Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD): £2499

Apple Box (32GB RAM, 1TB SSD): £999

stand to hold it vertically: £2999.99

 

[Feek]

stand to hold it vertically: £2999.99

 

[HACO]

A couple of weeks old, but I just learned today that Apple has released the Metal game development tool for Windows:

https://developer.apple.com/metal/
https://mspoweruser.com/apple-metal-developer-tools-for-windows-10/
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/07/11/metal-developer-tools-windows/

This means you can do a lot of (but not all of) the development work in Windows instead of MacOS. Should be helpful for game developers who generally have Windows machines and can't buy Macs for all their developers.

Their WWDC developer videos also focus a great deal on gaming on Mac, how easy it is to port existing console games to Apple platform, etc etc. Doesn't prove they're working on a console, but does prove that they're beginning to take gaming seriously.

 

[random_matt]

Quite sure their CEO isn't even into gaming.

 

[HACO]

Quite sure their CEO isn't even into gaming.

He has a 2080 Ti is his basement where nobody sees it

 

[Deleted member 209350]

It would just end up being a console to play a bunch of mobile games

 

[Squink]

It would just end up being a console to play a bunch of mobile games

I've read numerous tech reviewers say that Apple doesn't "get" gaming and I've usually dismissed it as hyperbole on the basis that a company can hire in the right people if it's of a mind to do so. However, Apple Arcade to me reinforces the notion that Apple really don't understand gaming. In theory it could be a great service and there are one or two gems, but so many of them are utterly bland. Google Play Pass is a much better effort in what it offers.