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Astrology: Its just silly right?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by KingOfAquitaine, 17 Jan 2006.

  1. KingOfAquitaine

    Gangster

    Joined: 30 Sep 2005

    Posts: 312

    A few days ago was having an idle chat with the gf that somehow ended up on beliefs. I was somewhat shocked to find out she had a belief in astrology, I mean she's never said anything and we both just use newspaper horoscopes to have a laugh. I mean otherwise she's very rational (more so than me; no religious belief and not particularly accepting that paranormal stuff is indeed paranormal.

    So it was odd to find out she believed in something that is, IMHO, completely debunkable.

    You can;'t prove or disprove the existance of God. All you can to is argue and debate. Its all metaphysics and theology. But astrology, its based on concrete things: Stars, planets, aligments and constellations (or as far as I'm aware it is), there's no way that to planets in a row could have any effect what so ever, ok thats just my opinion BUT, since they are physical entities I can be proven wrong, right?

    Anyway to my point. Anyone here care to disagree and prove celestial bodies can affect our lives.

    (ps, moon/tides, comets/cult suicides, & asteroids/wiping out all life on earth don't count)
     
  2. Zefan

    Don

    Joined: 15 Jan 2006

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    Location: Tosche Station

    The planets positions don't take any effect on our lives. Only when people are told that they will change our lives does it happen.

    For instance, in a Horoscope it may say "Today you will be faced with a difficult situation, but due to venus overlapping mars - your planet of strength - you will overcome it". This may lead the person who comes to see a random difficult situation - lets face it they occur every day - to think "Oh this is the situation, must be strong", which they may not have one had they not read that in the morning. SO, astrology DOES affect us, but only because we're told about it/made to believe it (Even if it is on a stupidly low subconcious level).

    My mum swears she goes all emotional/weird on full moons, but tbh she only does when she NOTICES it's full. :rolleyes:

    Z.
     
  3. AJUK

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 14 Nov 2003

    Posts: 10,949

    I do not belive in it at all and anyone who does should seek professional help.

    If anyone can tell me just exactly how a spinning ball of super heated plasma with a nuclear fusion reaction at it's centre billions of miles away can affect me in any other way than a healthy dose of radiation, then I am willing to accept it. Until then, Russell Grant and Mystic Meg can bite me.

    :p
     
  4. conundrum

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 11 Jan 2006

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    Even though it is twaddle go easy on the gf over it and do not mess with her cherished beliefs on the subject. I am sure that we all know lots of Women (I do) that take more than a passing interest in Astrology as it is in the main harmless and can be a good talking point for couples etc.

    Twaddle for fun is what I say m8
     
  5. Visage

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    Im not ocnvinced it is harmless. The notion that our fate is somehow pre-ordained can be very damaging, as it removes the ntion of self determination.

    Anything that may lead to someone thinking 'Whats the point in trying to improve my life in a proactive way? My fate is predetermined' is not a good thing.

    I'm not saying that people think this explicitly, but it may occur on a subliminal level....
     
  6. FirebarUK

    Soldato

    Joined: 9 Dec 2004

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    Location: Dorset

    What if she one day says "The moon has realigned with the Sun and capricorn is stroking the bear......I think we should split up, it doesnt look good". ?
     
  7. anarchist

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    What I find funny is when religious people dismiss astrology as false because there is no evidence for it and it seems to non-astrology believers as a load of old cobblers.

    Oh the irony ;)
     
  8. FirebarUK

    Soldato

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    God bless you son :D

    edit > back on topic, would be interesting to see whether she goes that "far" as it were.

    another edit > Is it a case of just her wanting to hear nice stuff, or does she think it has a strong effect on whats going to happen to her?
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2006
  9. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

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    There's an easy solution to explain that. Astrology is supposed to be based on an observed predictive system, the movment and alignments of planets and so on. Unlike most religious beliefs, because Astrology is based on a predictive system, it should be repeatable, and therefore can be tested scientifically in a way many other things can't.

    You can test the validity of an observed predictive system using the scientific method. You get your hypothesis, observe your inputs (the poisition of the planets) and your outputs (events/behaviours in the real world) and you can see if there is correlation.

    This has been done, repeatedly, and failed, again repeatedly. It's not that there's no evidence, it's that there's plenty of evidence that it doesn't work.
     
  10. anarchist

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    As Dawkins said in his programme, the only difference between a religion and the more widely ridiculed astrology type things, is that religions have been around for longer, have spread wider, and so are more embedded in the human psyche. Both seem equally implausible to an "outsider" like me.

    It's mad to think that the position of the planets when we were born can have any effect whatsoever on the way people's lives pan out - especially given that the 12 zodiac signs are an invention anyway (there were 13 originally I think) and change all the time. But having said that it's equally mad to think that God created the earth in six days and created woman from a man's rib etc.

    In my experience I think that is a very large part of it. And the same applies to clairvoyants and the like, I would say.
     
  11. conundrum

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    Well of course you get the zealots who say things like mars at a conjunction of venus etc but in the main most females I know just say it was in the paper or in a magazine and have a laff about it. Of course you always get the fanatics. Find out which one she is ?
     
  12. JimmyEatWorms

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    The only thing I genuinely believe has any effect of humans is the moon. I mean, the moon is able to affect every drop of water in our seas and oceans and the human body is 80% water...so why not?
     
  13. anarchist

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    Tides are caused by differences in gravity between one side of the ocean and the other - due to differences in distance between the earth and the moon at those different points. The human body is miniscule in comparison to the width of an ocean.

    So yes, I guess in theory it's possible, but in reality it isn't... A bit like homeopathy where your pint of water has like one atom of the supposedly medicinal compound in it (or possibly even none). It's too small to make any physical difference to the body, other than possibly a placebo effect.
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2006
  14. KingOfAquitaine

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    Joined: 30 Sep 2005

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    She's not fanatic in anyway, just thinks "there is something going on" really. I didnt press because I get slighly worked up when people make a point I so findementally disagree with ^_^

    Just left it as "oh thats odd, would never figure you for that"
     
  15. KingOfAquitaine

    Gangster

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    Didnt Horizon do a special and showed it didnt work at all??
     
  16. nero120

    Soldato

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    My aunty is an astrologer. When I was born she made a birth chart for me that my parents found when they were clearing out the spare room. I had never read it but they gave it to me to read. It's quite unbelievable how 'accurate' the chart is. Admittedly, it is a chart that predicts personality traits so it is going to be open to interpretation, but I hold impartiality high on my list of priorities and on the whole the chart was very accurate.

    I do not know why the celestial bodies and our birth date determine some degree of who we will become, but to be honest it is not surprising. We are after all tied in to the same system as the rest of the universe, why would it be surprising to find out that we are linked it it in more ways than simply following the laws of physics? Astrology has been practiced for thousands of years and is a system of observation - 'someone born at a particular time seems to be more likely to be like this', and as more observations are made it becomes more detailed. I do not regards tabloid astrology as valid as that is simply a money making cop out. But I do know that my aunty got me down pretty well on that paper, even determining physical weaknesses (not that I have many). I'd say that from what she wrote, there is no way it is simply guess work. The majority of what she wrote was specific and accurate and the chances of most of it being true if it were all guesses is slim.

    People who dismiss it outright are as bad as people who claim their religion is completely correct, and are as arrogant. Any who thinks they have this universe figured out enough to confidently dismiss this phenonmenan is severly delusional in my opinion.
     
  17. nero120

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    People have no how much of an influence the universe can have on us, just because it is not obvious in our tiny sphere of awareness does not mean it doesn't exist. To affirm or discount this belief would be premature, but I am simply shocked at how closed peoples minds are, especially in the 21st century.
     
  18. AJUK

    Man of Honour

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    Yep, the 21st century and can you believe that people are still worshipping stars? ;)
     
  19. nero120

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    What, the celestial kind or the celebrity kind?
     
  20. AJUK

    Man of Honour

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    Both probably! :D