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ati opengl drivers publicly slammed - story

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by TALON1973, 8 May 2006.

  1. TALON1973

    Mobster

    Joined: 28 Jul 2004

    Posts: 4,881

    Location: llanelli , south wales

  2. BubbySoup

    Mobster

    Joined: 22 Nov 2003

    Posts: 2,846

    Location: Cardiff

    Does anyone care about OpenGL anymore, especially with DX10 just around the corner set to revolutionize us all (wallets included).
     
  3. speeduk

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 3 Mar 2003

    Posts: 7,503

    Location: Canterbury

    Edit - didnt read article fully (it is inq afterall).
     
    Last edited: 8 May 2006
  4. Mekrel

    Soldato

    Joined: 2 Aug 2004

    Posts: 6,954

    Location: Buckinghamshire

    Errr may help if you read the link as it's on about ATi's OpenGL reliabilty and precision and not speed.

    3D Nature look to be a buisness who work with 3d rendering.

    So it's more on about ATi's rendering cards rather than gaming cards I would have thought. Probably a different drive team that work on those drivers maybe?

    Since moving to ATi around 5.8 catalyst, I can say the only bad driver is 6.4 which is the latest.
     
  5. Zefan

    Don

    Joined: 15 Jan 2006

    Posts: 30,710

    Location: Tosche Station

    Looks like tosh to me.
     
  6. LoadsaMoney

    Caporegime

    Joined: 8 Jul 2003

    Posts: 29,696

    Location: In a house

    Yup ATi finally sorted the OpenGL on the x1k series using the ringbus memory controller, when it first appeard ATi were beating Nvidia in it, but now Nvidia are back on top through improvements in later driver releases, but even so the gap is still nothing but a couple of frames as you can see above, its not poor at all now, its just the same as "This game is faster on an Nv card by about 3fps", and this one is faster on an ATi card by about 3fps".

    Nvidias D3D is worse, look at how in OpenGL ATi are only 5 frames behind, yet in D3D poor Nvidia are getting absolutely hammered by 25 frames or more, lets have an artice from D3D ppl slamming Nvidia, as ATi may be 5 frames slower in OpenGL, but its nowhere near as bad as getting hammerd by over 25fps. :eek:
     
    Last edited: 8 May 2006
  7. SteveOBHave

    Soldato

    Joined: 31 Mar 2006

    Posts: 6,588

    Location: Sydney Australia

    Agreed, because all of us who have used or currently use ATI cards have had bad experiences with their drivers and/or gameplay *sarcasm* :cool:

    It doesn't really bear that much relivance to gamers... nothing to see here... :D
     
  8. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 31,267

    Read the article, this has absolutely nothing to do with speed but rendering problems in OpenGL with all cardfs and all drivers.

    Read ahbout it here:
    http://www.3dnature.com/ati.html
     
  9. speeduk

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 3 Mar 2003

    Posts: 7,503

    Location: Canterbury

    Well maybe the thread title should be reworded. I assumed this was gaming opengl performance.
     
  10. LoadsaMoney

    Caporegime

    Joined: 8 Jul 2003

    Posts: 29,696

    Location: In a house

    Are these rendering probs that us gamers can see, as ive never seen any probs at all running OpenGL games, even Doom 3 looked the same as it did on an Nv card. :confused:
     
  11. james.miller

    Capodecina

    Joined: 17 Aug 2003

    Posts: 19,292

    Location: Woburn Sand Dunes

    performance is related to quality is it not? otherwise we'd all be running with lod-10.


    and im sorry, but you cant say ati have fixed their problems by using a programmable memory controller. nvidia dont NEED one and they are just as fast. ATi havent fixed anything at all, they have mearly used a workaround. a workaround that requires a custom program for every piece of software out there.
     
    Last edited: 8 May 2006
  12. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 31,267

    http://www.3dnature.com/ati.html

    This is nothing about speed, it is a bout several serious problems in all OpenGL drivers nad for all ATI gfx cards. Just listen to some of you hark on about "catalyst 5.8" or "ever since the X1800" "or "the magical ringbus". Read the article and then comment.


    • "all past and current ATI Catalyst drivers for all ATI Radeon series display cards" have critical bugs that "render the hardware unusable".
    • ATI has been aware of the problems since 2005 but has not fixed the most critical issues, has not announced an ETA for fixing them, or even acknowledged them publicly in their Known Issues for current releases.
    • The two critical failures are referred to as "VSYNC spinlock" and "compressed SGIS_generate_mipmap failure". Both are documented extensively on the OpenSceneGraph web site:
      http://www.openscenegraph.org/osgwiki/pmwiki.php/Tasks/OpenGLConformance
      complete with screengrabs and sample code to reproduce the problem.

    Joining 3D Nature in their protest of ATI's neglect are numerous luminaries of the realtime 3D visualization industry:

    Fredrik Ahl, Scalo AB, www.scalo.se
    Don Burns, Andes Computer Engineering, www.andesengineering.com
    Carlo Camporesi, Institute of Technologies Applied to Cultural Heritage, Italy
    Jan Ciger, OpenGL developer
    Ben Discoe, project lead, "Virtual Terrain Project" www.vterrain.org
    Murray G. Gamble, Director of Modeling & Simulation, Aerospace and Cognitive Engineering (ACE) Laboratory, Carleton University
    Roger James - CTO - Virtual Outlooks Ltd.
    Gert van Maren, Head of Development, K2Vi Virtual Reality Software, www.k2vi.com
    Robert Osfield, Project Lead, OpenSceneGraph, www.openscenegraph.org
    Gordon Tomlinson, Consultant, www.3dscenegraph.com
    James A. Zack, President, Xtra-Spatial Productions, www.spatialexperts.com

    [​IMG]

    Basically, it doesn't effect games much but anyone that does a bit of 3dSmax will have serious problem with ATI accoridng to that article.
     
  13. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 31,267

    It wont effect games much if the developers are aware of the issues with the drivers. This stuff isn't widely used in games, mostly modeling etc.
     
  14. TALON1973

    Mobster

    Joined: 28 Jul 2004

    Posts: 4,881

    Location: llanelli , south wales

    i don't start many threads.........................sniff :( i was bored in work and it was a quick glance at an article . didn't think to much about thread title .... but then again newspapers just make them up to grab peoples attention anyway ;) :D
     
  15. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 31,267


    Ther is nothing worng with the thread title, it is accurate. The problem is some people too easily defend ATI and go hyper if anything bad is said. The real argument is that this shouldn't effect games much but that point was ignored.
     
  16. SteveOBHave

    Soldato

    Joined: 31 Mar 2006

    Posts: 6,588

    Location: Sydney Australia

    Agreed - it's just people who don't read the article before opening their gobs... :rolleyes:
     
  17. speeduk

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 3 Mar 2003

    Posts: 7,503

    Location: Canterbury

    Ok OK I am sorry! I though it was another bash ATI/OGL thread (like so many before it).

    Feel free to hit me with as many non lethal objects as you want.
     
  18. HEADRAT

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 21,032

    Location: Cambridge, UK

    Agreed, interesting article and some oh too obvious and typical knee jerk reactions ;)

    Only if I don't have to use my PPU as it kills my FPS ;)

    HEADRAT
     
  19. TALON1973

    Mobster

    Joined: 28 Jul 2004

    Posts: 4,881

    Location: llanelli , south wales

    hey ive got an ATI card myself ... last nvidia card i had was a 5900 xt.

    just bringing a story , nothing more :)
     
  20. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 31,267

    A faceful of haddock coming right up! :p