Poll: Austrian Grand Prix 2020, Spielberg - Race 1/?

[Mr Jack]

First race of the season. I also think they should cut down on the Free Practice sessions for the double headers. Two sessions on Friday then qualifying only on the Saturday. Give the lower formulae longer on track. No way do they need like 4 hours of track time to prepare when they've done hundreds of laps already this weekend.

The extra practice sessions give teams time to try options that could close the gap from last race. Plus conditions may change.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Although initially I thought so many practice sessions for double headers would be pointless, looking at many teams reliability I think they and we need them.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Crap decision to penalise Hamilton there. He'd left room, he didn't change his line, Albon drove into him and span... Yet at the same time Norris bounced off of Perez whilst driving down the inside and that was absolutely fine? Don't like the inconsistency there.

Massively enjoyed watching Vettel screw up again. Amazing how he seems to spin whilst on the inside of collisions all the time now, when you'd expect it to be the guy on the outside being knocked into the spin!

 

[Mr Jack]

Certainly looks like he is to me. If not at the apex then it is right after. It certainly isn’t “late in the corner”. Albon was far enough ahead to be hit on the rear wheel, he didn’t have to move to avoid contact, it was on Lewis to avoid contact and he didn’t. I don’t see how anyone could argue against a 5 second penalty for that

Here's the apex:



The two cars are almost completely alongside each other, with Albon ahead by about the diameter of a wheel. With the cars alongside each other, the inside driver is allowed to follow a normal racing line, but ensuring the car attempting the overtake has at least a car's width on the outside. What makes this unusual is the amount that Albon gets ahead in the next half second, bringing his car to here:



Immediately before the impact. But look: there's clear track between Albon and the white line. Hamilton has left him space! And that's all that he's required to do in a situation like this. Albon caused the accident by bringing his car onto too tight a line and into the trajectory that Hamilton would inevitably take round the corner. It's unfortunate that the on-board for Albon doesn't seem to have been working during this race so we can't see it from his point of view, but Hamilton's onboard shows nothing amiss: he's on full lock, looking along the track, and taking his car round on a line that leaves fair space on the outside.

I think the thing that leads people to think differently about this is the amount faster that Albon was. Usually in a case like this you wouldn't see this amount of speed differential, and so Albon being well ahead at the impact point leads people to think that he was well ahead through the move and would thus have the right to the racing line, but he wasn't so he didn't. Instead he had the right to be left space and he was.

 

[Mr Jack]

Crap decision to penalise Hamilton there. He'd left room, he didn't change his line, Albon drove into him and span... Yet at the same time Norris bounced off of Perez whilst driving down the inside and that was absolutely fine? Don't like the inconsistency there.

Norris was well alongside Perez on the entry to the corner. That one was entirely Perez's fault:



I don't think they're really comparable.

 

[PinkFloyd]

I'd still say they were comparable in that they were both collisions that could have been avoided either by the driver on the outside not turning in, or the guy on the inside backing out. Don't get me wrong - I'm happy Norris didn't get punished here, but it was a clumsy collision between the 2 drivers. Meanwhile Hamilton got penalised for leaving space and driving a smooth line!

I'd call both racing incidents undeserved of any penalties!

 

[Garido]

I found this funny



credit; chris henrich

 

[Garido]

Both drivers are entitled to fight for the position. To me Alex had done enough to secure the position and the penalty seems fair.

My only gripe is, consistency (both in terms of decision and punishments).

 

[Mr Jack]

I found this funny

Your image doesn't seem to be working?

 

[Garido]

Your image doesn't seem to be working?

hopefully it works now?

 

[Greboth]

Not intentional but undoubtedly Hamilton's fault, it's more a case of Hamilton not wanting to accept he was beaten at that point, trying to push the limits of the space he had available and then getting caught out by Albon's much faster exit speed which caused their wheels to touch. What Hamilton should have done is realised that he was beaten, slowed down enough to keep to the tighter line he was forced onto without encroaching inside Albon's wheelbase and then tried to get it back later.

Out of interest how much space should have Hamilton left so you don't consider that he was "trying to push the limits of the space"? Considering the amount of space clearly left as can be seen on screenshot posted by Mr Jack.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Funny thing is, if he had let albon through in points terms he would have been much closer to bottas (since albon would easily win), even ignoring the time penalty. I still think he left enough room. Once again the rules of engagement seem to have changed this year. I do grow tired of this sport sometimes. At least it was an entertaining race.

 

[Mr Jack]

Funny thing is, if he had let albon through in points terms he would have been much closer to bottas (since albon would easily win), even ignoring the time penalty.

I'm surprised Mercedes didn't order Bottas to let Hamilton through to try and ensure he stayed ahead of Norris; it would have made no difference to Bottas' finishing position and delivered more points for the team. Mind you, I was certainly surprised by how quickly Norris was able to close the gap so perhaps Mercedes were too.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I'm surprised Mercedes didn't order Bottas to let Hamilton through to try and ensure he stayed ahead of Norris; it would have made no difference to Bottas' finishing position and delivered more points for the team. Mind you, I was certainly surprised by how quickly Norris was able to close the gap so perhaps Mercedes were too.

Agreed on both points. I though there was no way Norris was catching them - shows how much Mercedes must have turned those cars down, along with the hard tyres. Surely it was still safer to let Hamilton through, he was never going to haul 5s over bottas. Mercedes made many blunders that cost them the 1-2. Next weekend will be interesting with these issues they seem to be carrying.

 

[Slam62]

Personally I'd just prefer it if Albon and Hamilton hadn't collided, I think Hamilton could have avoided the collision. Albon was being aggressive but so was Hamilton.

 

[Mr Jack]

Personally I'd just prefer it if Albon and Hamilton hadn't collided, I think Hamilton could have avoided the collision. Albon was being aggressive but so was Hamilton.

I'd have rather Albon hadn't ruined his race by hitting Hamilton with a stupid move; but he is young, and hopefully he will learn. I'm pretty sure he would have won the race after Mercedes catastrophic strategy error in not pitting either car for fresh tyres. With Max having tumbled out so early in the race, it's quite hard to judge Albon's pace fairly but he certainly seems to have improved a lot over the long break.

 

[this_is_gav]

I'm not certain a penalty was warranted personally. Both could have avoided it. Hamilton was on the outer groove of the racing line at the time of contact, so I can see why he was penalised. It's a fine line though, and the FIA (usually) have more angles than we do.

I think Hamilton was just frustrated at that point. He could have started second by backing off more in qualifying. He couldn't get passed Bottas when the safety car bunched them up and was getting frustrated with the track restrictions Mercedes placed on both, and then he rather threw away a podium in the latter stages. As mentioned, if Mercedes had let him through, then he would have got at least third even with the penalty. Mercedes themselves threw the podium away as much as Hamilton.

I've not seen Hamilton like that in a race for a while. It wasn't that far off a return to the days vs Rosberg when he thought the whole world was against him.

 

[Mr Jack]

I thought was a really nice video on the Hamilton-Albon incident from Scott Mansell (no relation, I believe):

I still don't agree with his conclusion, or the steward's decision, but it makes it much clearer why people see it that way.

 

[Greboth]

That is an interesting take on the incident and one I hadn’t considered. I guess it comes down to at what point do people consider it becomes a drivers fault. A 50/50 is easy but a 51/49? Is that enough to blame the 51% driver?

Also no, he isn’t any relation.

 

[timmeh]

Good video that. It's pretty much how I saw it and the point I was trying (poorly) to make.