Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Hatter The Mad, 22 Sep 2009.
Perhaps this will calm down the hystericals
Doubtful. Since when have facts and their rational consideration got in the way of a good scare story?
Given that the same loonies ignored the fact that autism rates didn't change whilst vaccination uptake dropped, I doubt it'll make much difference to the type of folk who think there is a link.
As Ben Goldacre once said, "You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into."
That's a wonderful quotation Oli. I'd not heard it before.
Personally I feel MMR vaccinations should be compulsory. What right does someone have to endanger a babies life?
Dolph reminded me of it the other day by quoting it, I didn't realise that it was Goldacre who first said it (so the internet says anyway and who's to argue!)
I think we had a lengthy discussion about this a few months back, but I'm inclined to agree
Personally I am not so sure. Not a huge fan of giving the government the right to forcefully medicate anyone without a court order.
"Forcefully"? You mean "with force", as in "against someone's will"?
My daughter had her compulsory vaccinations. I think I would have noticed if force had been involved. It wasn't.
Sorry typo, meant forcibly. As in against someone's will.
Well, that would probably take us back to the days of smallpox epidemics within a few short years, so I really don't think it's a good idea.
Good hygiene standards would prevent a lot of infectious diseases being spread in the first place (closed sewers made a huge difference, for example). As a whole, people here have poor diets and lack of exercise which in turn affects their overall health - making them more susceptible to illness. I don't think there's just one magic bullet to fix everything.
You're threading a fine line here.
It should be compulsory only if you want the child to interact with other children. If your child is home schooled or otherwise, and does not come into much contact with others, then a parent should have that choice.
Although i dont buy into the MMR causes autism angle, I do still believe that we live in a free country. Free to have control over what we do, think and how we control our own bodies.
compulsory vaccination is the thin end of a very BIG wedge
Why would it? We don't have a forced vaccination process at the moment and we aren't exactly tripping over massive epidemics.
But we might without a nanny state to make us do things under threat... It's vital we expand the state as much as we can to prevent it happening. I mean, just think of the children who could be harmed if we don't...
We're not talking about forced vaccinations; we're talking about mandatory vaccinations. "Mandatory" is not the same as "forced." And yes, the UK does have at least one mandatory vaccination that I know of: the HPV jab. No, mandatory vaccination does not mean forced vaccination (exemptions are still offered on the basis of religion, for example). No need to get your knickers in a twist.
w00t! Second straw man of the thread (RDM beat you with "forced vaccinations"). Congratulations.
Mandatory vaccination does not equate to "expanding the state." But you know that already, don't you? You're just trolling, as you so often do.
Look, I enjoy a laugh as much as the next man, and I'll be the first to admit that your anti-modernist, free market Luddite rantings are amusing for the first five minutes.
But as the logical fallacies begin to accumulate and the unsubstantiated rhetoric ceases to entertain, people begin to tire of the suggestion that we'd all be better off if we lived in some sort of 18th Century anarchist dystopia. So please, do shut up and let the rest of us get on with the 21st Century.
Is there a penalty involved if you do not meet the exemption criteria? If there is, then it is forced.
You don't think putting penalties for not doing something the state wants is 'expanding the state'? Well, it's a viewpoint I suppose, not a logical one, but a viewpoint non the less.
i think we should perhaps be a little bit sympathetic towards parents/family of autistic children who believe the mmr jab has caused their loved ones autism rather than call them "hystericals" and "loonies" ect.
dr andrew wakefield (and lancet) and his flawed study is mostly to blame for the situation, and also the conspiracy theorists didnt help either by claiming the government was hiding facts and lying, and they were willing to sacrifice a few casualties for the greater good.
as a parent of an autistic child i never believed the jab was to blame, simply because my son was clearly autistic before he had the jab but i have met a few parents of autistic children who believed that the jab was to blame and i certainly dont think they are loonies for thinking that. they just need something to blame because lets face it, there is a big mystery surrounding autism, they dont really know what causes it, why it happens, and there is no treatment or cure ect. many other illnesses and disabilities can be pinpointed to a certain cause but not autism
What exactly is the difference?
It isn't mandatory.
One year olds do not belong to any religion. Parents endangering their children's lives because of their supernatural beliefs is unacceptable.
As much as I'm against the nanny state in general, MMR vaccinations are something that should be mandatory.
You endangering the child's soul because you have different beliefs is just as bad in the eyes of some, especially given that the whole thing is simply based on expressions of faith by both sides.
Your opinion on the validity of someone else's belief should have no more influence on them than their opinion of your belief does on you.
What reduction in social harm does mandatory vaccination achieve that a good education program cannot?
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