AV Amp, Speakers & Cabling Help needed

[Conanius]

Hi Everyone,

As per another thread, we've had a look round today at what sound bars and the like are out there.

The Sonus play bar with the added sub is ok, but just felt like colossal money for 'ok'. We checked out a Bose Cinemate 120 system, and that felt far better, but its still £1000 for a speaker under the tv and hidden amp. I think we can do better for less.

I like the idea of getting a dedicated amp, something like the Sony 1040 - http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-receivers/sony/strdn1040/sony-strdn1040

...a decent pair of front speakers, like the Monitor Audio BX2 Bronze - http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-speakers/monitor-audio/bronze-bx2/moni-audio-bx2-oak

... and then a separate sub http://www.richersounds.com/product/subwoofers/monitor-audio/bronze-bxw10/moni-audio-bxw10-oak

Without shopping around, thats £249.99 (Amp), £249 (Stereo Speakers) and then £449 (Sub), so about £950 all in.

Granted, we need cables on top of that, but I get the feeling we'd have a higher quality solution, and something we could make more use of and build on in the future.

Now. I'd appreciate a view on that equipment list, but I also need to sort doing the cabling. I want it all hidden, but I need help on working our what bits I need to order, and where I can order it all from please.

- I presume for the speaker faceplates I just need to order speaker wire and two faceplates - the amp is going to be right by one of the speakers, so I won't need to hide the wire - Reasonably priced recommendations for that cable would be great.

- I don't know what faceplate and cable I need for the sub. Help needed here !

- I know I need two HDMI faceplates, but I've got no idea what cable i need to connect the two, what do i need.

If with all of the above you can link me to items, that would be hugely appreciated.

 

[.:SAmSuNG:.]

When researching I had a similar budget for sub and speakers.

I ended up with

Dali Zensor 3's
Bk Gemini mk2.

Not sure on the sub you linked but I came to the conclusion the Dalis where better than the BX2's. I would buy the speakers first and see if you really feel you need a sub.

 

[Conanius]

When researching I had a similar budget for sub and speakers.

I ended up with

Dali Zensor 3's
Bk Gemini mk2.

Not sure on the sub you linked but I came to the conclusion the Dalis where better than the BX2's. I would buy the speakers first and see if you really feel you need a sub.

Thats going to be the plan. I'll do the wiring for the sub at the same time though, as we're having solid oak flooring put down and I don't fancy trying to rip it all up at a late date just to run a sub cable.

 

[.:SAmSuNG:.]

I think everyone is going to say go try some out at a local shop if you can. I personally couldn't but more than happy with what I have now.

 

[Conanius]

Yeah, the hardware I'm less worried about at the moment. Its sorting out the cabling and faceplates as if I'm going down that route I need to order them today/tomorrow....

 

[lucid]

I think the value of faceplates for speakers is debatable. Particularly if it's only one speaker that's being catered for. If the idea is to hide cable, then having it terminate to some 90mm x 90mm plate with red and black banana plugs sticking out kind of defeats the objective.

Also, with a sub connection, the potential introduction of another ground connection when the sub is already grounded via it's mains cable can potentially cause ground loop issues.

For AV cables between sources, amp and TV, then I'd recommend sinking some trunking in to the wall and finishing with brush plates.

The reason for this is future-proofing and to make installation a bit easier. Put in some trunking large enough, and cut the backboxes with big enough access, and you'll be able to remove and add cable as standards change. Who knows what you might need with a new TV of the future, or where the cable entry points might be. Pre-terminated cables have a habit of either being a bit too short or too darn long.

Terminating cables behind a faceplate - particularly HDMI plugs can be a bit tricky. Getting the plug ends to fit on the backbox without either bending the cable savagely or putting undue stress on the faceplate rear connections takes some juggling. A straight through cable coming in to and out of the brushplates has no such problems.

The only one I would recommend terminating is power. Try to keep that spaced away from signal cables by at least 9"/24cm.

For sub cable thats dead simple to conceal have a look at either QED Performance Mini or this BT3002 which is very similar but costs less than 1/3rd.

Speaker cable, Van Damme Blue is plenty good enough without breaking the bank: decent cross section, not too many strands, solid copper rather than inferior copper coated steel (CCS) or copper coated aluminium (CCA) and not too much money.

As for cables..... the TV requires power, TV signal (aerial cable) and at least one HDMI from the amp to the TV. The rest depends on the type of TV. You might consider Ethernet cable if it's a smart TV; satellite coax if it has Freesat; or maybe some additional AV cables if the amp doesn't support cross conversion/up conversion of AV to HDMI. Sound back from the TV tuner can be routed either by Optical or via HDMI if the TV and amp both have the ARC feature. If the amp doesn't have HDMI pass through, but your main TV source is a Sky box or Freeview/Freesat PVR, then you might want to think about a second HDMI cable or direct audio connections from the tuner box to the amp.

With the exception of speaker and sub cable, most other interconnects will be free hanging behind the equipment.

 

[Caged]

Seeing those HDMI cable ends hanging in the building dust without any end caps on makes me sad

 

[lucid]

Not all electricians are as careful as you'd like.

 

[Conanius]

Lucid, if I go for trunking and faceplates that are brushed, how do I stop 'losing' a cable or pull a fresh one through ?

 

[lucid]

There's enough friction to prevent cables falling in generally.

Pulling an extra cable.... it is either done at the same time as removing in old one (tape the heads together like two train carriages and pull the now through with the old), or you install a draw string and pull through with that. Remove the face plates when pulling cable to make it easier.

 

[Ice_Black]

I think the value of faceplates for speakers is debatable. Particularly if it's only one speaker that's being catered for. If the idea is to hide cable, then having it terminate to some 90mm x 90mm plate with red and black banana plugs sticking out kind of defeats the objective.

Also, with a sub connection, the potential introduction of another ground connection when the sub is already grounded via it's mains cable can potentially cause ground loop issues.

For AV cables between sources, amp and TV, then I'd recommend sinking some trunking in to the wall and finishing with brush plates.

The reason for this is future-proofing and to make installation a bit easier. Put in some trunking large enough, and cut the backboxes with big enough access, and you'll be able to remove and add cable as standards change. Who knows what you might need with a new TV of the future, or where the cable entry points might be. Pre-terminated cables have a habit of either being a bit too short or too darn long.

Terminating cables behind a faceplate - particularly HDMI plugs can be a bit tricky. Getting the plug ends to fit on the backbox without either bending the cable savagely or putting undue stress on the faceplate rear connections takes some juggling. A straight through cable coming in to and out of the brushplates has no such problems.

The only one I would recommend terminating is power. Try to keep that spaced away from signal cables by at least 9"/24cm.

For sub cable thats dead simple to conceal have a look at either QED Performance Mini or this BT3002 which is very similar but costs less than 1/3rd.

Speaker cable, Van Damme Blue is plenty good enough without breaking the bank: decent cross section, not too many strands, solid copper rather than inferior copper coated steel (CCS) or copper coated aluminium (CCA) and not too much money.

As for cables..... the TV requires power, TV signal (aerial cable) and at least one HDMI from the amp to the TV. The rest depends on the type of TV. You might consider Ethernet cable if it's a smart TV; satellite coax if it has Freesat; or maybe some additional AV cables if the amp doesn't support cross conversion/up conversion of AV to HDMI. Sound back from the TV tuner can be routed either by Optical or via HDMI if the TV and amp both have the ARC feature. If the amp doesn't have HDMI pass through, but your main TV source is a Sky box or Freeview/Freesat PVR, then you might want to think about a second HDMI cable or direct audio connections from the tuner box to the amp.

With the exception of speaker and sub cable, most other interconnects will be free hanging behind the equipment.

What size was your plastic trunking for brushplates did you use? when you cut the backboxes, did you add rubber around it? if so which one.

 

[lucid]

The brush plates are the same size as single- and double-gang electrical sockets. These are standard UK sizes. They'll fit to the plastic dry-lining boxes or the metal back boxes depending on what you use to suit your wall construction.

Trunking: Get the biggest you can fit or cut/chop out for. Mini Trunking (search for it on Google) comes in a range of widths and depths in rectangular or square profiles. The biggest is 38mm wide x 25mm deep. If you broaden the search just to trunking then you'll find larger sizes. RS-online has Planet-Wattohm mini trunking at 50mm x 20mm.

There is no direct coupling/mating fit between mini trunking and electrical back boxes. You have to cut the boxes to suit. You won't be able to fit a rubber grommet to a custom-made hole in a metal back box. However, since all the items being connected by the cabling are either earthed or double insulated, and your back boxes won't be carrying 220V AC mains, then it really shouldn't be an issue. You won't (or shouldn't) be putting twin & earth cable in the same conduit or back boxes.

 

[Ice_Black]

The brush plates are the same size as single- and double-gang electrical sockets. These are standard UK sizes. They'll fit to the plastic dry-lining boxes or the metal back boxes depending on what you use to suit your wall construction.

Trunking: Get the biggest you can fit or cut/chop out for. Mini Trunking (search for it on Google) comes in a range of widths and depths in rectangular or square profiles. The biggest is 38mm wide x 25mm deep. If you broaden the search just to trunking then you'll find larger sizes. RS-online has Planet-Wattohm mini trunking at 50mm x 20mm.

There is no direct coupling/mating fit between mini trunking and electrical back boxes. You have to cut the boxes to suit. You won't be able to fit a rubber grommet to a custom-made hole in a metal back box. However, since all the items being connected by the cabling are either earthed or double insulated, and your back boxes won't be carrying 220V AC mains, then it really shouldn't be an issue. You won't (or shouldn't) be putting twin & earth cable in the same conduit or back boxes.

I only need single gang for brush plate.

Do you know how many HDMI cables approx can fit in for 38mm wide x 25mm deep trunking?

I am assuming you have used 35mm depth gang?

 

[lucid]

Trunking capacity depends on how you're planning to use it and the size of the plug heads, surely? It will also be more limited where the run has bends. Tip: Do no more than a 45 degree bends ( and better at just 30 degree) if you hope to pull new cable in the future. You'll have a real hard time pulling past a single 90 degree bend.

Back box depth is whatever suits the wall; but yes 35mm or deeper makes sense since you have to accommodate a cable bend of using connection plates. It's less critical if using brush plates.

 

[theone8181]

I only need single gang for brush plate.

Do you know how many HDMI cables approx can fit in for 38mm wide x 25mm deep trunking?

I am assuming you have used 35mm depth gang?

Bear in mind if you have to pull a hdmi cable through, the connector is quite big compared to the cable diameter.

 

[Ice_Black]

Trunking capacity depends on how you're planning to use it and the size of the plug heads, surely? It will also be more limited where the run has bends. Tip: Do no more than a 45 degree bends ( and better at just 30 degree) if you hope to pull new cable in the future. You'll have a real hard time pulling past a single 90 degree bend.

Back box depth is whatever suits the wall; but yes 35mm or deeper makes sense since you have to accommodate a cable bend of using connection plates. It's less critical if using brush plates.

I found a decent rare size from a local DIY shop.

It is 50mm width and 25mm depth mini trunking. I think it should be good enough for 3 HDMI cables and a soundbar cable.

What screws should I use to mount trunking on brick wall? Then it will be plastered over.

 

[lucid]

There's no need to go OTT with the screw fixings. I tend to pin with a few strategically placed screws just to hold the trunking in place, but most of the 'holding' work is done with some kind of grab adhesive such as NoMoreNails.

For fixings, use either yellow or red masonry plugs and the appropriate diameter screws. Yellow plugs are the smaller of the two. The hole in the brickwork is 5mm, so use a 5mm diameter drill bit. The plugs are around 25mm in length, so don't choose screws longer than that. The screw diameter is 3 to 3.5mm. (the equivalent gauge is 6 - 8) More info here if you want to go a bit larger and use the red wall plugs. LINK

Put your cables in place before plastering over.