So, he's never had a good teammate is your point?
Poll: Belgian Grand Prix 2020, Spa - Race 7/17
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
So, he's never had a good teammate is your point?
Soldato
Ok yeah, I think we’re saying the same thing. Team orders still limited Bottas in what he could do against Hamilton and yes it would have been the same if the positions were switched.
I get that the team wants to get a result but it does suck when the two drivers at the front can’t race
no, i'm saying he didnt have the option to turn them down
Just seen your winky face on your original post. I'm going to leave this one here...
Lewis's first team was McLaren alongside 2 time WDC Alonso, do you think Lewis could have joined and said .. hmm get rid of Alonso? no
Button was brought into McLaren alongside Lewis.. Lewis > Button, no reason for Lewis to be scared
Lewis is signed by Mercedes alongside Nico who was already there, Lewis had no power to say.. ditch Nico
Now Lewis is Mercs top dog, he will have a say over who gets to be his team mate, that is what i'm saying,
and there are some drivers (Max/Charles) that Lewis will not want as a team mate when he can have the likes of Bottas there, who imo isnt in the top 5 drivers on the grid
This is why i'm saying Lewis stating he needs to know if Toto is staying is BS, he wanted/needed Bottas to resign first so he knows where he stands, and possably call the shot over who his #2 should be should Bottas leave
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 45,033
What’s the point, Hamilton can then just use the same mode? Both cars turned up but still equal for no gain.
Caporegime
No, they didn't. All that would have happened is that Hamilton would also have turned up his engine and the two of them would have damaged their engines, and maybe tyres, for no overall gain for the team. Racing another team, sure turn it up and hope they can't do the same, but against your teammate when there's no-one else in close contention? No, it makes no difference to the racing between the drivers, it just costs the team.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 45,033
I think it would have been fair if bottas had DRS and the chance at a pass, but he couldn’t even get into DRS.
Caporegime
IIRC, at that time he was about one and a half seconds behind Lewis. Presumably he wanted to use the higher mode to bring himself into DRS range.
Soldato
Did you miss the radio to bottas telling him not to use the top mode to chase down lewis?
And did you also miss in the interview them saying about team orders?
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 45,033
No, but you’ve chosen to ignore the rest of what we said that makes your point irrelevant.
It amazes me that you don’t understand that both cars have the same engine modes available.
Man of Honour
I can’t disagree; they must have changed more drivers mid season that any other team over the last 20 years (injuries aside)
I can see a scenario where at max 3 of the Red Bull drivers are still there next season; I probably expect Tsunoda to get the jump from F2 into Alpha Tauri next season (also doesn’t harm to have a Japanese driver in for Honda) - but you would assume that its Kvyat getting the chop; he’s been totally outpaced this season.
I can’t see Gasly getting the chop but maybe kept at AT because really Red Bull should be trying to get someone more experienced to help support Max; if they had any sense they would be getting Hulkenburg into that seat; fast, consistent but realistically not on the level of Max; probably more of a Bottas type role.
Caporegime
I honestly don't understand why everyone is so keen on Hülkenburg. He's the very definition of an unremarkable midfielder; his record breaking streak of podium free races speaks for itself. There are better drivers out there, and I'd rather see them get their chances than see Hülk return. I think Red Bull's junior programme is something of a problem for them at this point; yes, they've been great a bringing new talent through but we've also seen them let that talent down at a remarkable rate too and their closeness to so many promising drivers makes it difficult for them to then recruit from outside into their top team. After Ricciardo left, it was obvious they needed someone of quality to replace him but instead - and, yeah, this was somewhat down to the drivers' market at the time - they scrambled in Gasly who was clearly not ready for that seat and then completely failed to support him. It seemed obvious that Red Bull had no faith in him from early on and he really struggled. Albon, even less prepared, and without even the same grounding pre-F1, has predictably failed to perform. Kvyat is an odd one; he was brilliant in that Red Bull seat, even beating Dani Ric over the season, but he's been guff since.
Bringing Gasly back surely makes no sense, but if they're not willing to look outside the Red Bull "family" then he's their only choice.
Soldato
for what it's worth, i'm going to throw my 2p's worth into the hat here.
It's obvious RB can keep up there with the Mercs..................it's just that it needs the likes of Max driving to do it. In my opinion there is only one other driver as good as Max currently in F1 and that is Leclec. He needs to seriously consider if it's worth staying with Ferrari or just bail out and move to RB. I'm 100% shure if he was to talk to RB they would grab him with open arms. I'm also 100% Max would love true competition between himself and his team mate.
It's obvious RB can keep up there with the Mercs..................it's just that it needs the likes of Max driving to do it. In my opinion there is only one other driver as good as Max currently in F1 and that is Leclec. He needs to seriously consider if it's worth staying with Ferrari or just bail out and move to RB. I'm 100% shure if he was to talk to RB they would grab him with open arms. I'm also 100% Max would love true competition between himself and his team mate.
Man of Honour
Its not going to happen; (certainly not immediately) can you imagine the cost of buying him out of his Ferrari contract? I suspect there’s very few get out clauses in that contract as well (especially given how Ferrari were performing when he signed!)
Personally I think the only bigger name driver that could potentially end up at Red Bull next year is Vettel and I know its debatable whether he’s still a top driver or not; I don’t think he’s nowadays on Max’ level but in a good car; back in a familiar team I reckon he could at least be Bottas to Max
Soldato
Your forgetting that Alonso walked away from both Ferrari and Mclaren when under contract, in fact loads of drivers have over the years. If a driver or a team don't want to be together both are well capable of letting go, contract or no contract.
Soldato
This is certainly true. Any contract even with options and clauses can be set aside immediately if both parties agree to it. All a contract does if govern the relationship between the two parties. If both parties in agreement, then they can do anything they please (within the law) with their contract. Some on the forum seem to forget this and see a contract a something written in stone and terminating the contract as a 'bad' thing.
This is why I'm not sure given how much of a dog the Ferrari was going to be, that Seb didn't seek to sit out a season. Especially this season with COVID. I could imagine citing "...wanting to be with his family in these difficult times etc... etc..."
There have been signs this season of Leclerc's frustration. Not so much with the speed of the car, but with Ferrari's crap strategies. I can only see that building this season, and by the end of next season after two years of a crap car, might serious be considering his future. Hard to imagine given he signed until 2024, but will he have faith that Ferrari can do anything decent with the new spec on 2022?
BTW, other than the fact that he is young, I don't think Leclerc can even be mentioned in the same breath as Max. He's no-where near him. He went fast in a fast Ferrari, beating (but not destroying) a Vettel that had seen his performances fall year after year.
P.S for **** and giggles, I'd love to see Vettel and Alonso in the same team. Imagine the drama.
Commissario
Not a very interesting race.
Max summed it up nicely “boring”
Max summed it up nicely “boring”
I don't think a driver with a Ferrari contract is going to walk away given that everything is up for grabs with upcoming rule changes. It wasn't that long ago that Red Bull were in the doldrums, and Ferrari was the only competition to Mercedes. The only team worth leaving Ferrari or Red Bull for would be Mercedes, and even then there's no guarantee the new rules are going to give them a dominant position like they have now, even it it's a strong possibility.
Soldato
That was pretty dull apart from the crash.
Renault did well. RB screwed Albon by putting him on the Mediums.
Ferrari were just awful.
Renault did well. RB screwed Albon by putting him on the Mediums.
Ferrari were just awful.