Poll: Belgian Grand Prix 2020, Spa - Race 7/17

[deuse]

No, but you’ve chosen to ignore the rest of what we said that makes your point irrelevant.

It amazes me that you don’t understand that both cars have the same engine modes available.

It's you that don't get it.
Each car has so many overtake modes per race.

Yes both cars have it. That does not mean that one could use the mode and then make a mistake.
That means the other car would catch up...simples really.

“In the morning we agreed and discussed that we obviously have a limited amount of overtakes and that we would try not to use them against each other, or the last one against each other, because there is always the risk of needing it against Max or any other car."


"Bottas: "I don't recall" being told not to race Hamilton before Belgian GP"

 

[deuse]

Hamilton wasn’t allowed to turn up his engine either. They didn’t tell Bottas he couldn’t race Lewis. If they let both cars turn up the engines where does it end? They only have 3 PUs per season (a rule enforced upon them) and unfortunately for everyone watching they need to protect PU life when a 1-2 is in the bag.

"Valtteri Bottas has revealed he "doesn't recall" being told by Mercedes beforehand not to race Lewis Hamilton during the Belgian Grand Prix"

 

[this_is_gav]

2017 and 2018 would very clearly have gone to Ferrari without Hamilton. Another Bottas level job wouldn't have got the job done.

I seriously doubt they would leave Bottas as the lead driver if Hamilton wasn't around, they would have signed another top driver. Verstappen, Alonso or Ricciardo all would have jumped at the chance, and Vettel only signed a renewed Ferrari contract in 2017, so could have been open to moving to Mercedes for 2018, though as you say at that time Ferrari were serious challengers with little signs outwardly that they were about to plummet down the field, so he presumably would have stayed regardless of any interest from Mercedes.

That said I do think Bottas could win over a season with the level of dominance Mercedes are showing, were it not for Hamilton. His head goes down when Hamilton gets too far ahead in a season, but he easily finished second last season, even with his car failure at Interlagos. Verstappen may be ahead of him at the moment, but I doubt many expect that to be the case at the end of the season with the dominance Mercedes have shown thus far, unless Red Bull make some decent improvements. It will all be down to reliability though.

 

[deuse]

Another CT by deuse, what a surprise.

Whats the other CT?

 

[this_is_gav]

"Valtteri Bottas has revealed he "doesn't recall" being told by Mercedes beforehand not to race Lewis Hamilton during the Belgian Grand Prix"

My undering of the radio message was that they weren't to use a certain engine mode against each other, but they were free to race (including using other engine modes).

Nothing in the article you failed to quote contradicts that.

 

[deuse]

My undering of the radio message was that they weren't to use a certain engine mode against each other, but they were free to race (including using other engine modes).

Wolf has now said that he meant that both drivers was to keep the overtake mode to use against max only ...lmfao...

 

[Mr Jack]

For sure Hamilton is quicker but as Mr Jack also mentioned - If Hamilton wasn't there Mercedes would still be winning.

Actually, I realise I got my sums wrong. I accounted for Bottas getting extra points, but not Max. Remove Hamilton, and you have 4 wins and two 2nds for Max vs. 3 wins and three 2nds for Bottas. With Albon being so potato, Mercedes might be ahead if their second driver was closer to Bottas's skill.

I'm pretty sure you could put any of the F1 drivers in the Merc and they would be winning too. My point is you have to question Mercedes spending $50m(?) per year for Hamilton when they would win with drivers on a much lower salary.

I'm pretty sure you couldn't. It depends on where you rate Bottas, but I think he's in the better half of drivers on the grid. Not as good as Ricciardo, for example, but better than the likes of KMag, Grosjean, Pérez or (at this stage in his career) Raikkonen. Bottas is behind Max on points, so I think you'd need one of the better drivers to be ahead of Red Bull. Last year, Mercedes were stronger I think (although they had more competition since Ferrari still had their good engines), and pretty much any of the better drivers could have got there. But look at '17 and '18. I'm pretty sure that almost any other driver would have lost to the Ferraris those years. Bottas was 3rd in '17 well behind and an embarrassing 5th in 2018.

Mercedes don't know what kind of season it's going to be before it begins when they're choosing drivers. Maybe it's a season like 2019 where they're towering over the opposition, or maybe it's a season like 2018 where Hamilton makes the difference between 5th and 1st. They're paying for the best driver in order to make sure that they can win regardless of what kind of season it is.

Another thing to consider is the brand value of a driver like Lewis. He brings a lot of sponsor interest, and marketability to the team. That's important to any team but especially to one like Mercedes that is partially a marketing exercise for their more important road car division.

 

[Mr Jack]

I seriously doubt they would leave Bottas as the lead driver if Hamilton wasn't around, they would have signed another top driver. Verstappen, Alonso or Ricciardo all would have jumped at the chance, and Vettel only signed a renewed Ferrari contract in 2017, so could have been open to moving to Mercedes for 2018, though as you say at that time Ferrari were serious challengers with little signs outwardly that they were about to plummet down the field, so he presumably would have stayed regardless of any interest from Mercedes.

Yeah, I agree, but this was in the context of whether Hamilton is worth the money. Bring in another top driver and they'll demand similar levels of pay. Bottas himself is estimated at an $8m salary so he's hardly getting chickenfeed.

That said I do think Bottas could win over a season with the level of dominance Mercedes are showing, were it not for Hamilton. His head goes down when Hamilton gets too far ahead in a season, but he easily finished second last season, even with his car failure at Interlagos. Verstappen may be ahead of him at the moment, but I doubt many expect that to be the case at the end of the season with the dominance Mercedes have shown thus far, unless Red Bull make some decent improvements. It will all be down to reliability though.

I won't be surprised either way. Bottas may have finished 2nd last year, but he was 5th and 3rd in the years before that. He's not like Rosberg who was constantly at Hamilton's heels.

 

[this_is_gav]

I'm pretty sure you couldn't. It depends on where you rate Bottas, but I think he's in the better half of drivers on the grid. Not as good as Ricciardo, for example, but better than the likes of KMag, Grosjean, Pérez or (at this stage in his career) Raikkonen. Bottas is behind Max on points, so I think you'd need one of the better drivers to be ahead of Red Bull. Last year, Mercedes were stronger I think (although they had more competition since Ferrari still had their good engines), and pretty much any of the better drivers could have got there. But look at '17 and '18. I'm pretty sure that almost any other driver would have lost to the Ferraris those years. Bottas was 3rd in '17 well behind and an embarrassing 5th in 2018.

Note of interest on 2018 - Bottas would have left Baku ahead of Hamilton in the championship barring the unluckiest of punctures. Granted Hamilton had his own bad luck that day with the headrest (and Vettel barging his way out of contention), but Bottas would have finished well ahead of him on pace regardless were it not for the Red Bulls and Force Indias inherent magnetism to their respective sister cars.

Bottas never really recovered from that loss of points and his form deserted him. He was unlikely to challenge over the season anyway, but it clearly hit him hard. A bit like Hamilton when he went through prolonged spells of poor form in his McLaren days.

 

[pacegod]

Whats the other CT?

Pretty much any thread you're in. Particularly about anything US based.

 

[JBeck]

Ok yeah, I think we’re saying the same thing. Team orders still limited Bottas in what he could do against Hamilton and yes it would have been the same if the positions were switched.

I get that the team wants to get a result but it does suck when the two drivers at the front can’t race

I agree, but if Bottas had used it then Hamilton would have done the same to keep him at bay which was my point, hence why use it on each other.

 

[JBeck]

"Valtteri Bottas has revealed he "doesn't recall" being told by Mercedes beforehand not to race Lewis Hamilton during the Belgian Grand Prix"

My undering of the radio message was that they weren't to use a certain engine mode against each other, but they were free to race (including using other engine modes).

Nothing in the article you failed to quote contradicts that.

Exactly this.

If people making statement such as this cannot clearly understand what the radio call means then they shouldn't be quoting them at all.

 

[413x]

I agree, but if Bottas had used it then Hamilton would have done the same to keep him at bay which was my point, hence why use it on each other.

Agree. It's a waste.
Besides you know Hamilton would have got space back

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Quite a spread on the poll this week. It just goes to show the different areas people place value on in F1.

Wolf has now said that he meant that both drivers was to keep the overtake mode to use against max only ...lmfao...

That seems to come as a surprise to you for some reason.

 

[bazzabear]

Wolf has now said that he meant that both drivers was to keep the overtake mode to use against max only ...lmfao...

I'm confused by the doubt here. Surely we're talking about the radio conversation, which was played verbatim on the Sky coverage? Where they specifically spoke about having agreed to not use modes against each other (they did not say they couldn't race), and Bottas replied "I don't remember that being said".

How are we questioning whether that's what they really said, when we heard it directly ourselves?

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Because deuse.

 

[413x]

Quite a spread on the poll this week. It just goes to show the different areas people place value on in F1.



That seems to come as a surprise to you for some reason.

I really enjoyed it. Probably because I'm a Renault supporter.
But midfield was interesting, particularly at end with Norris, albon and ocon

Mercedes and their winning I just don't care about. Everything behind the podium is where it gets interesting

 

[pastymuncher]

I gave it a 3/10, boring as hell. I got rid of Sky the year before last and have been watching the "highlights" on C4 but it comes to something when I start nodding off while watching "highlights". I may give next year a miss and hope that 2022 and the rule changes make things better again, not that any other changes have succeeded.

 

[JBeck]

That seems to come as a surprise to you for some reason.

Because it destroys he's previous claim that Bottas wasn't allowed to use it against Hamilton and proves they were told not to use it on each other, and only each other, not the rest of the field.

 

[JBeck]

Regardless of people misrepresenting facts, the race itself was fairly dire. Renault were impressive, Gasly again, impressive, and Stroll yet again as he has this year showing he's worth a seat in F1.

Ferrari are a disaster and that fuel flow issue hidden away cloak and dagger style, should be challenged legally as they have been nowhere since that 'investigation'. I can't believe their aero team have made such a mess of this year's car alone to create such an embarrassing deficit, nobody does.