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Britons should follow Islamic values, or so it seems

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by pyro, 7 Jun 2006.

  1. pyro


    Joined: 23 Nov 2002

    Posts: 16,167


    Taken from here. And, here is a responce to a complaint letter (not mine).

    Should this website and the people behind it be simply ignored? They most certaintly do not represent the voice of all Muslims, or even the majority. There are Muslims, especially the younger generation, that has adapted to the way of life in England, while still maintaining their faith, and even the more conservative ones do not associate state terrorism and exploitation as a British value.

    I guess it would be like the BNP (it's an example, don't jump on me yeah) making a sticker saying that Islam stands for oppression, sexism, and killing of innocent people. And I am pretty sure that should they do that, there will be more racism and xenophobia accusations, even lawsuits.

    So why is this site up and running when it gives a bad name to both Muslims and British people?
  2. Shackley


    Joined: 4 Aug 2003

    Posts: 3,054

    Barking !

    I hadn't realised that honesty, charity, family values and morality were NOT British values.

    I guess that this (and the BNP) is what one gets from democracy - still, I kinda like it (democracy that is, not religious fundamentalism or ultra nationalism).
  3. ElRazur


    Joined: 15 Mar 2005

    Posts: 10,439

    Location: I am everywhere...

    I think this quite the opposite actually. Muslim are known to invole in all those Britsh Values and NOT in those of Islamic Value...If in doubt look at saudi arabia and Northern part of Nigeria.

    It is very simple, if you dont like it here, go back! period No debate. ....Oh wait we better debate with them or else we **might** get blown up.
  4. @if ®afiq


    Joined: 3 May 2003

    Posts: 6,080

    Are Muslim's the only one's with bigoted sites on the .co.uk domain?

    *edit* To answer your question, as long as they do not promote violent actions then they are they not well within their rights to do so?
  5. ElRazur


    Joined: 15 Mar 2005

    Posts: 10,439

    Location: I am everywhere...

    No, there is your answer and here is my question is that poster/site not bigoted?
  6. crashuk


    Joined: 7 Dec 2005

    Posts: 2,691

    well **** off then go back to your country.
  7. VIRII


    Joined: 24 Jul 2003

    Posts: 30,259

    It does rather fly in the face of the "muslims do not want to change the UK" arguments that are so often trotted out though.
    Clearly some muslims have little or no intention of intergrating.
  8. <Tom>


    Joined: 24 Oct 2005

    Posts: 73

    Then what the hell are hey doing here
  9. Phog


    Joined: 8 Mar 2004

    Posts: 3,187

    Location: Central London

    If they don't like our culture, maybe they should return to their own country to help them remember why they (or their ancestors) left in the first place.

    Edit: For clarification, I'm not implying that they should return to 'their' countries indefiniately. I was saying how they should visit the countries again as a reminder.

    Last edited: 7 Jun 2006
  10. Psyk


    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 8,444

    Location: Leamington Spa

    Maybe we could do with a bit of honesty and charity but I'll politely say no thanks to the rest. What exactly does 'family values' mean? Does it mean women aren't allowed outside or maybe something less stereotypical. Needs to be clarified. Same thing goes for 'morals'. And as for worshipping Allah, just no.
  11. ritcH


    Joined: 5 Apr 2004

    Posts: 479

    Location: London

    That site and what it represents is no different from the BNP, they should be allowed to communicate whatever nonsense they believe because freedom of speech is central to our society.

    Then when normal people come across what they have to say, they will laugh at them and move on. Some people will get angry and write letters of criticism and some people will be afriad and say silly things like "muslims should go back to their own countries" but society is also full of stupid people and we let them speak too.
  12. VIRII


    Joined: 24 Jul 2003

    Posts: 30,259

    Absolutely we should allow freedom of speech. Of course that little luxury would disappear under Islamic rule :)
    I see this rather differently to the BNP. The BNP have no real depth of following, no gel to endear them to the public, yet this group claim to represent Islam. Already we are seeing the Muslims in Forest Gate and the MCB calling for non co-operation with the police over the arrests of these 2 lads. (Their brother was with the mock suicide bomber during the protest marches).
    The BNP don't exactly worry me, they don't blow up tube trains, they are a bit of a joke and they don't have this religious fervour to call upon.
    You can laugh and move on if you like, but I think you understimate the scale of the issue.
  13. ritcH


    Joined: 5 Apr 2004

    Posts: 479

    Location: London

    I'm not sure if the movement of Islamic extremism in this country is larger than the BNP movement - it would be an interesting statistic.

    I personally laugh and move on because I firmly believe that Islamic extremism will never threaten our values, it will only ever act as an example of insanity just as the BNP is an example of the insanity of racism.

    I agree there is a difference between the actions of the BNP and extremist groups. I'm very grateful to our security services for the efforts they make to protect us from unlawful acts including acts of terrorism. But as for this website I see no problem in letting it exist. Sure there is a line though, even for websites, if it starts publishing beheadings or commits other genuine offences then it should definitely be taken offline unless the security services find it useful!

    I don't mind the debate either, I think talking about the issues helps to consolidate an appropriate opinion I just think there is an element of stupidity, particularly when attitudes towards extremism are generalised to ordinary Muslims.
  14. starscream


    Joined: 8 Mar 2003

    Posts: 4,055

    Location: Looking at the internet

    The guy that blew up the gay pub in Soho was a BNP member, and Nick Griffin defended it. Many senior members of the party also have multiple convictions for violent offences. The BNP don't actively promote violence/terrorism of course, but not does this organisation...

    Now don't get me wrong, I find that sticker absurd and inflamitory, but there is a world of difference between lobbying for misguided notions and acts of terrorism. Until there is a proven link between the group and terrorist activity, it is not fair to suggest there is one.

    Much as a disagree with the content, our rights to freedom of speech allow this kind of material to be published.
  15. fini


    Joined: 26 Aug 2004

    Posts: 7,569

    Location: London

    Surely the BNP claim to represent 'real britishness'?

    When you say it flies in the face of the 'muslims do not want to change the UK' argument are you suggesting that the website reflects the opinion of the average muslim in britain? Every race, colour and creed has its nutjobs,,,

    Last edited: 8 Jun 2006
  16. i know nothing


    Joined: 6 Feb 2004

    Posts: 3,347

    Location: Norfolk Broads

    I like the bit in the 'about Us' section of the website where they write:-

    I've fixed it for them:-

  17. VIRII


    Joined: 24 Jul 2003

    Posts: 30,259

    I think you'll find that a very large percentage of muslims will agree in principle with much of what is on that website. Yes.
    Infact some polls on such issues were posted here recently that backed up my view on this.
  18. Cueball

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 24 Sep 2005

    Posts: 1,395

    Islam = the religion of terror.
  19. p4radox


    Joined: 1 Oct 2004

    Posts: 10,767

    Location: Prague

    A very large percentage of followers from any religion might identify with what's being said in that sticker. Replace 'Islamic' with 'Christian' and 'Allah' with 'God' and you've got yourself a fundamentalist Christian sticker. In fact, you wouldn't even have to be a fundamentalist Christian to agree with the values on that sticker.

    The flaw is that 'British Values' are not homosexuality etc, but the liberty to do as one pleases with out directly harming others. This includes freedom of speech so the nutters who make these sites should be allowed to carry on.

    Woah, hold up there. Huge generalisation perhaps? There are nutters in every religion, class and social group.
  20. JimmyEatWorms


    Joined: 18 May 2003

    Posts: 4,686

    Location: Londinium