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Camber and handling?

Discussion in 'Motors' started by AmDaMan, 15 May 2006.

  1. AmDaMan

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,972

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    Hey all, I'm thinking of getting some camber bolts when I get my new tyres and front struts.. Anyway's I'm just wondering if i'm likely to see an increase in handling because sometimes it feels like it's going to let go on corners (yeah it's a slow 1.4 atm, but I mean when I have built the speed up and keeping the revs high)

    I think this might have something to do with the dampers as well as they suck, the mounts, balljoints and bushes are all fine btw.

    At the moment I'm getting a lot of wear on the insides, the outsides still have the prongs on! The wheels are 215/17's so it's not the tracking, it's deffo the camber (tracking was done not long ago)

    So will I notice improved grip? And is it a worth while investment, how does one set the camber (assume it's a garage job), expensive?

    thanks,
     
  2. Trickle

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 1,706

    Location: Sheffield

    Generally increasing the camber improves turn in and general cornering. It may decreace straight line stability.

    Worsening tread levels on the inside will reduce all the above. Increasing camber generally means you will wear more unevenly on the inside, which you already say is a problem.

    Have you already lowered your car and already running too much camber hence the wear? Is this why you are buying camber bolts?
     
  3. penski

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 9 May 2005

    Posts: 20,834

    Location: NE8

    Proper camber:

    [​IMG]

    *n
     
  4. Lashout_UK

    Capodecina

    Joined: 2 Mar 2004

    Posts: 11,810

    Location: SE England

    Case in point :cool:

    Everytime I've had tracking done they've also checked and set the camber, if need be. I assumed it was automatically part of the job, being part of overall tyre geometry. Might not be the case though :)
     
  5. Enfield

    Soldato

    Joined: 8 Nov 2003

    Posts: 7,396

    Location: Hampshire

    215's on a 1.4? What car are we talking about here?

    Surely the standard size tyres on a 1.4 will be about 165's...maybe your suspension isn't setup to cope with large tyres...obviously not all 1.4's have skinny tyres (or do they?) but i'd say the majority do so that may be your problem.

    Did it wear more on the inside with normal sized tyres?
     
  6. kaiowas

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,233

    Location: Castle Anthrax

    I'd say handling is guaranteed to increase by at least 17%

    And how does the fact that you have a certain size of wheel/tyre prevent the tracking from being the source of your uneven wear?
     
  7. AmDaMan

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,972

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    omg @ those cambers! :eek: What does that acctually do apart from wear tyres mega quick?? Surely with the little suface area connecting to the road = less grip? Someone explain.

    The don't check the camber on tracking I don't think, it's not adjustable on most cars is it?

    I'm sure the 1.4's suspension wansn't designed to cope with the 215's (it's a clio) they are compomotives and made especially for this car though.
     
  8. AmDaMan

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,972

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    Right so you don't have a clue then...

    Tracking has been set mate, read the post. If the tracking has been set, and there is still uneven wear on the insides what does that mean? Tracking?!!11 ;)
     
  9. kaiowas

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,233

    Location: Castle Anthrax

    I have more of a clue than you'd give me credit for. I'm well aware that you've had the tracking done but if you read your post you state that your tyre size is the reason that the tracking isn't at fault and then mention an an aside in brackets that you have had it done.

    My first car had just had a brand new steering rack fitted when I got it. It then proceeded to destroy both front tyres in no time. Turned out that the mechanic who fitted the steering rack had set the front toe to X Deg instead of X mm giving way more toe than was needed. Just because you've had it 'done' doesn't necessarily mean it was done properly.

    When you mention your dampers being rubbish, does that mean they're knackered or that their just standard ones and you don't like them? If you've got knackered dmapers there's no point even looking at anything else.
     
  10. AmDaMan

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,972

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    Right sorry about my wording, what I mean't with that is the wider tyres upset the geometry a bit more. The tracking has been done by a good mechanic (although probably not very accurate) as it was the mirror style due to my car being lowered BUT that would not explain why they are still wearing VERY unevenly (it doesn't look like the outside have even seen the road surface).

    The dampers are crap uprated oil dampers as far as i'm aware (DeCarbon), they are either rally crap or leaking or something because it doesn't feel right but like I said, i'm planning on doing the geometry when I get the new struts etc.
     
  11. kaiowas

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,233

    Location: Castle Anthrax

    How far has it been lowered? If it was lowered by quite a lot then that could easily put the camber out enough to cause the tyres to wear unevenly
     
  12. AmDaMan

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,972

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    -35 *i think* could be more but not much more.
     
  13. Cryfreeman

    Mobster

    Joined: 28 Jan 2003

    Posts: 3,382

    Location: Devon

    :D


    [​IMG]


    problem we had was the tires wearing very quickly and actually went off on the day, thinking of dialing some out again and see what improvement we get :)

    while the tires where good we had fantastic turn in though with the least amount of understeer of the hole field
     
  14. gaz1234

    Gangster

    Joined: 29 Dec 2005

    Posts: 229

    Try some spacers to make the wheel base wider - i had a clio 16v with the fronts 15mm wider on each side!
     
  15. Simon

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Oct 2002

    Posts: 23,389

    Location: Berks / Moscow

    No need for camber on the fronts really if you can dial in a load of castor.

    Wint situation then, loads of grip in a straightline as the tyres are flat against the road and on the corners you get camber to help it grip.
     
  16. Berger

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 May 2003

    Posts: 10,434

    Location: Wigan

    I dont think it would improve turn in, as when your driving straight you have a relatively small contact patch and as the car leans, the camber increases thus grip.

    Therefore depending upon your momentum, you would need a level of grip to turn in, increasing dependant on speed among other things.
    A higher level of grip would be acheived at a lower level of camber compared to a higher level. More tyre contact patch on the road when you initially turn the wheels would give more grip and allow the car to turn in faster...

    More camber would give the car more grip when leaning and more on power steering to a certain extend i think.
     
  17. Jonny69

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 3 May 2004

    Posts: 17,669

    Location: Kapitalist Republik of Surrey

    Yaaay, castor for the win!
     
  18. AmDaMan

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,972

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    Is castor adjustable on normal fwd cars?

    What will happen to general tyre wear?

    thanks,