cant believe things in the IT world are this bad

[SiD the Turtle]

Fair point but its a sad fact but if you require a field based employee there isnt time to hold there hand, this may well not apply to all IT Roles but they need to hit the ground running, hard work doesnt come into it if they lack decent basic knowledge and have proven industry experience.

Look at CV's presented by University leavers and those of seasoned IT Engineers and its easy to see why.

Yes i may be hard on University IT education but ive got very good reason to be from a personal point of view.

I do see where you are comming from but let me give you my example. I was employed as my first job out of Uni as a SAN Storage and Backups 3rd line techie. Ask me back when I started what a SAN was and yes, I would only be able to quote the footnote in my Networks course that tells me that it means Storage Area Network. Within a week I did need to 'hit the ground running', but thanks to the learning skills I picked up at uni, I wasn't completely hopeless. Alternatively it comes down to that old cycle. No job without experience, no experience without a job. I was lucky to land in such a job with no experience, but we all have to start somewhere with 0exp and work our way up. Now I have that valuable experience PLUS a degree, I am MUCH more employable comapared to my school leaver friends.

 

[Garp]

Funny, I can't think of many if any jobs less strenous.

Try working in an ISP when you get a Major Service Outage, or similar in other industries. IT peeps do come under pressure routinely. Most company operations rely on the smooth running of the IT infrastructure. If anything goes down it affects the performance as a whole and often results in the loss of earnings. All of which relies on the IT team having skills, and keeping them up to date in one of the fastest moving industries around. If having that kind of responsibilty resting on your shoulders isn't stressful, show me what is?

 

[Spacky]

In regard to this thread and myself moaning about my position, I just landed myself a promotion, not sure how I did it, still checking the name on the paperwork but there we go. Won't disclose the amount but am loving the 37 days annual leave.

 

[brocksta]

Nowadays getting into a good IT job is down to the experience you have. It isnt enough going off to uni and obtain a degree in whatever, as the employer mainly cares about your experience in the job role. Thats why im thankfull that ive managed to get some work in a local college in their network room, as im sure it will benefit me in the future.

 

[D.P.]

http://www.grb.uk.com/vacancies.0.html?

goto graduate jobs, and IT job types.


Most jobs provide pay scale making it nice to search for these purposes. Seems average pay for graduates between 18-25 or so, more in London.


soeme good examples:
grad C++ developer 22-27K london
grad software engineer, 25K, east sussex
software developer, 23-25k surrey
graduate datbase admin, 30-35K, surrey
graduate test & support engineer, 27K, berkshire
software developer, 25-30k


etc. etc.
These are all graduate jobs that you should be able to apply for with a good degree. Don't seem to bad to me.


PS: I'm looking for jobs, pay to me seems to be between 23-27k for my kind of stuff. I've also applied for a wicked PhD which will bay 20,100 + 1-2K all tax free being a student. Heck, in my 3rd year I did an internship in the US which paid $50k/£27k.

 

[crashuk]

Firstly, that's my quote not Crashuk's.

Secondly you don't pay it back all in one go. I still bring home the majority of my pay (minus travel which is a killer).

i know the quote window never came up.

 

[Visage]

Nowadays getting into a good IT job is down to the experience you have.

I disagree. I've spent the last week interviewing graduates for positions in our graduate scheme. Only half the guys/girls we're making offers to have IT related degrees, and all will be on 28k+ basic....

 

[SiD the Turtle]

I disagree. I've spent the last week interviewing graduates for positions in our graduate scheme. Only half the guys/girls we're making offers to have IT related degrees, and all will be on 28k+ basic....

28k? Which company to you work for (if you feel confortable replying)?

On a similar note, a lot of the grads here do not have CompSci degrees. Its more about having a respected degree which shows a good work ethic. (I'd assume)

 

[Visage]

28k? Which company to you work for (if you feel confortable replying)?

I'd rather not. Sorry.

On a similar note, a lot of the grads here do not have CompSci degrees. Its more about having a respected degree which shows a good work ethic. (I'd assume)

Absolutely. I've worked all my life in IT deaspite not having an IT degree.

Lets face it, technologies change every 5 years or so, so the specifics you learnt at the age of 20 are not going to stand you in good stead when you're 50.

Most of the senior developers here could probably still churn out some COBOL or FORTRAN if pushed, yet they also have to stay current with all the latest 'next big things'. Thats why an aptitude for learning, an analytical brain, and a willingness to continue developing are FAR more important than an IT degree.

 

[SiD the Turtle]

Thats why an aptitude for learning, an analytical brain, and a willingness to continue developing are FAR more important than an IT degree.

Very true. But would you say that you can see that someone has this if they have a good degree (of any kind) or will it come down more to interviews and aptitude tests?

 

[bitslice]

Thats why an aptitude for learning, an analytical brain, and a willingness to continue developing are FAR more important than an IT degree.

I totally 100% agree.
permit me to add the "ability to research" too

--- but you probably won't agree with this next rant... ----

I could talk all day about stupid people with degrees.
- but not related to "inexperience" (we all started somewhere) but soul-crushing inability to think.

not to dis anyone who has put in the massive amount of work to get one, because this forum has loads of really clever bods; but it makes you wonder why these mouth breathers are being awarded what should be a benchmark of ability.


.

 

[Mickey_D]

Meh, I turn 38 in a week, work in a construction / industrial environment doing multiple different jobs with multiple different qualifications from fork lift truck driver (certified and insured), welder, electrician, electronics technician, plumber, foreman, etc. and I only make 14K quid. Plus I have to pay for my own medical insurance which comes up to half of that (7.7K quid anually).....


Count yourself lucky you're getting 12K and your medical paid for in a starting position.......

 

[Visage]

Very true. But would you say that you can see that someone has this if they have a good degree (of any kind) or will it come down more to interviews and aptitude tests?

It is hard to say. I personally like to look at a candidates academic record all the wya back to GCSE's.

IMO GCSE's are as different from A-levels as A-levels are from degrees. If someone has a consistent record of acheivement from 14-21 then that, to me, signifies a decent rate of progress and adaptation.

Attitude is a big one as well. I come across a lot of graduates who theink that, having got a degree they've 'made it', and with that comes a sense that they can take their foot off the gas. I try not to be too harsh, as candidates like these remind me of a young Mr Visage , and a bit of attitude is no bad thing....

 

[SiD the Turtle]

It is hard to say. I personally like to look at a candidates academic record all the wya back to GCSE's.

IMO GCSE's are as different from A-levels as A-levels are from degrees. If someone has a consistent record of acheivement from 14-21 then that, to me, signifies a decent rate of progress and adaptation.

Attitude is a big one as well. I come across a lot of graduates who theink that, having got a degree they've 'made it', and with that comes a sense that they can take their foot off the gas. I try not to be too harsh, as candidates like these remind me of a young Mr Visage , and a bit of attitude is no bad thing....

That's fair enough. And true I met a fair few other grads who thought 'look at me, I've got a 1st, employ me!'. I have a lowly 2:2 and (with hopefully not too much pride) flattend some of of the first-ers in interviews. Granted, with a 2:2 I'm not going to get into Accenture, but I do feel that I am in a job level and pay level that does reflect my skills.

 

[D4VE]

Not at all. You can rent a flat in Hackney for less than 400 quid a month (including bills & council tax), and thats within cycling distance of the City.....

Is it a complete dump though?

 

[Sp00n]

Is it a complete dump though?

What... Hackney? Yea, it is

 

[triggerthat]

Very true. But would you say that you can see that someone has this if they have a good degree (of any kind) or will it come down more to interviews and aptitude tests?

Hey mate,

I will be in the process of applying for placements in the next few months and I was wondering if you should shed some advice when it comes to assessment days. I have a 'finalised' CV of which could do with a looking at by someone like you considering you have been through the entire process.

What's your email address? Any help would be appreciated.

K0534663 @ kingston dot ac dot uk

 

[Visage]

Granted, with a 2:2 I'm not going to get into Accenture

I wouldnt be so sure - they may say otherwise in their recruitment stuff, but the rules are bo no means set in stone.

As a new graduate (with a 2:2) I got a job as an IT consultant with IBM Global Services - which are in exactly the same marketplace, jobs wise, as Accenture and the other big consulting companies.

 

[Visage]

Is it a complete dump though?

Hackney's a bit hit and miss - nice bits and bad bits.

My point was that living in london on such a wage is not impossible. You may not be living in a suite at the Dorchester though...

 

[SiD the Turtle]

Hey mate,

I will be in the process of applying for placements in the next few months and I was wondering if you should shed some advice when it comes to assessment days. I have a 'finalised' CV of which could do with a looking at by someone like you considering you have been through the entire process.

What's your email address? Any help would be appreciated.

K0534663 @ kingston dot ac dot uk

Email is in trust if you want to chat, however CV wise I'm not sure how much I could help as I was told mine let me down but my assessment and interview recovered for me!

Assessment-wise, just ask for any advice, however the best bet I found was reading advice on the forums of good old Doctor Job especially for experiences of specific assessment centres that people have already been through. Watch out for trolls there though ('I didn't get into x company, therefore x company suxxx azzz'.