Cheap IPS Freesync 27": Dell SE2717H or LG 27MP59G-P ?

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Hello there

I'm interested in a cheap 27" IPS monitor with Freesync. I dont mind about 1080p at 27", i have a deep desk, i can place it more than 3 feet away if i have to, but it's got to be IPS , Freesync, and rather large.

My budget does not stretch at all beyond 250€ and since it's got to be big (27"), Freesync and IPS, I narrowed the search down to these two monitors for around 200€:
-Dell SE2717H
-LG 27MP59G-P

The Dell Monitor has a TomsHardware review here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dell-se2717h-27-inch-ips-freesync-gaming-monitor,4859.html As for the LG, i don't really see a "professional" review anywhere because the monitor is fairly recent.

I'll be using this for casual gaming of AAA titles: think GTA V, Mafia 3, Rise of The Tomb Raider, Witcher 3, Resident Evil 7, etc. I'll also be watching some TV conected to it, Animes, a couple of Movies.

Which one you guys think should have better picture/motion quality overall?
 
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I don't know about image quality, but a few comparison points that would go in LG's favour:

- wider FreeSync-range (40-75Hz vs. 48-75Hz)
- DisplayPort-connectivity
- higher specified default refresh rate (75Hz vs. 60Hz) (<-- though not sure how accurate those figures are)

Then again, LG also has a thinner chassis. While this can indeed be a positive aspect to most people, it CAN also result in a higher chance of backlight bleed. This is because the frame isn't as sturdy, so bending around the contact points is possible.
 
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Thank you for the advices.

What are the benefits of Display Port vs HDMI? They are both digital and can carry the max ammount of pixels the monitor can support right? The only thing i can see it useful is that it's easier to change sources (i'll have a PC and a HDMI TV box conected to the monitor - was thinking of just pluging off the PC whenever i wanted to use the TV).

The dell is also 75hz, with freesync enabled.
The chassis thinness doesn't matter to me, i had no clue thinner monitors were more prone to backlight bleed.
 
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FreeSync over HDMI is a relatively new thing I think, DisplayPort is the standard connector for monitors these days. Also bear in mind that neither one has a high enough FreeSync range (max >= 2x min) for Low Framerate Compensation to work, which means any dip below the minimum refresh rate will result in stutter and tearing. The LG has the advantage here since in most cases you don't want to dip below 40 Hz in any circumstance anyway.
 
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Hi NateCordova, Just wondering how you went with your monitor choice? Sorry to dig this up, but there still isn't much info/many opinions on a google search.

To throw in some info for anyone out there finding this page - I purchased the LG 24MP59 24" IPS free-sync monitor. The menu systems and joystick button under the centre of the bezel are nice, and the stand looks nice for a gaming monitor. The major downside for me is that it has quite a lot of IPS glow - the sort that washes out the screen as you move your head. Under normal use with something on the screen its not to bad, but games with mostly black loading screens are where it really shows up. The monitor also wobbles a lot when typing on the keyboard. My last monitor was a Dell U2311H and it was an amazing screen - I only upgraded to go LED and for free-sync now that I have an RX470 video card.

I am also asking, because I am ready to go ahead with a purchase of a Dell SE2717H for both an upgrade on screen size to 27" and *hopefully* better build quality. I had a quick look at the Dell S2718H which was a little extra $, but the "Dell HDR" seems to be more of a sales gimmick than anything like the *real* HDR. For sake of the 48-75 refresh rate - I have read that someone has modified the monitor drivers had had the refresh as low as 36-60hz, and went 38-60 to be sure. I'm hoping that 40-75 would then be an option, if not - I'll settle for 38-60.

Cheers!
-Adam
 
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Hi NateCordova, Just wondering how you went with your monitor choice? Sorry to dig this up, but there still isn't much info/many opinions on a google search.

To throw in some info for anyone out there finding this page - I purchased the LG 24MP59 24" IPS free-sync monitor. The menu systems and joystick button under the centre of the bezel are nice, and the stand looks nice for a gaming monitor. The major downside for me is that it has quite a lot of IPS glow - the sort that washes out the screen as you move your head. Under normal use with something on the screen its not to bad, but games with mostly black loading screens are where it really shows up. The monitor also wobbles a lot when typing on the keyboard. My last monitor was a Dell U2311H and it was an amazing screen - I only upgraded to go LED and for free-sync now that I have an RX470 video card.

I am also asking, because I am ready to go ahead with a purchase of a Dell SE2717H for both an upgrade on screen size to 27" and *hopefully* better build quality. I had a quick look at the Dell S2718H which was a little extra $, but the "Dell HDR" seems to be more of a sales gimmick than anything like the *real* HDR. For sake of the 48-75 refresh rate - I have read that someone has modified the monitor drivers had had the refresh as low as 36-60hz, and went 38-60 to be sure. I'm hoping that 40-75 would then be an option, if not - I'll settle for 38-60.

Cheers!
-Adam

Hi adam.

I'll gladly share my experience with the Dell monitor with you.

Pros:
Zero Screen Wobble and Good Build Quality: Absolutely no problems here. It's a sturdy stand. The monitor doens't feel cheap at all. To try, I actually punched my solid mahogany desk (its a very stable desk as you expect) and the screen didnt wobble one single bit. It has really good rubber feet, when i drag it along the table I need to lift it up slightly because it drags, it's got friction. I got some screen wobble when I shoke up my desk like trying to move it out of place, but if your typing makes your desk shake a lot, then i guess your problem is with the desk :p
Colours are really good, you can sense the colour range here. Games with vibrant colours are such a pleasure, my GF loves to watch Disney Movies like Moana on this monitor haha. I was used to TN monitors and VA Tv's mind you, but i've seen other cheap IPS screens and they aren't as good as this. My ipad 2 screen doens't have the same colour vibrance as this monitor and that's a pretty decent screen. I love playing pretty games on this monitor, it makes them justice.
They are very natural, yet, if there's a vibrant colour, you'll definately see it. Even at 5% brightness colours look pretty good.
Screen Uniformity: You know how some smartphone IPS screens look uneven on brightness? This has got no such issue, its pretty uniform.
-» OSD: If all you do on the OSD is change brightness, it's really easy ,it's a 4 physical button row to control OSD and you can set the first 2 for brightness up and down.
-» Size of course.
-» Response time is Okay, it's okay for gaming. I set my overdrive to Fast but you can set it to Very Fast. Thing is, I also watch TV on this monitor (big Sporting Clube Portugal fan here) and on Very Fast i can notice a yellow glow around Football/Soccer players lol. Fast and Very fast feel almost the same in terms of fluidity.
-» 75hz is a noticeable improvement on some more fluid games like Borderlands. But on Games like GTA it's barely noticeable from 60hz
-» Freesync is a god send here as well. I feel sorry for those that bought the 1060 instead of a RX580, because at this budget, freesync is amazing.

Cons:
That damned Freesync Range: Beware if you ever get to 48-52 FPS , game will stutter and look like 30 fps for a second and then go back to normal.
This is especially my main gripe with this monitor. It won't make you suck at games or anything but it can be distracting if it's too often.
In games with highly fluctuating FPS like GTA V, Watch Dogs 2, you'll notice it. Especially Open World CPU Intensive games. Because my CPU is a measly I5 4460 @ 3.4ghz, and My RX580 seems to let the CPU handle a lot of things in some games. This seems to be true because my old HD 7750 had a more stable framerate on GTA V (on lowest settings but high density).

Can you show me how someone changed the drivers for 38-60hz? I'd like that, I really dont notice when i'm at 60 FPS or 75FPS unless it's a game like borderlands or something.

-» Some IPS Glow / Backlight bleed: I'm not sure if it's IPS Glow because I need to move a lot to notice the image go Washed Out but my main problem is dark areas.
In games like Doom, The Evil Within 2, Resident Evil 7 and movies like Sherlock Holmes 2009 (sorry for the example, it's a dark movie) you can notice washed out blacks on the corners, depending on your monitor brightness. This is why my sweetspot brightness is 50-70% at max. Something's can be watchable/playable at 70% brightness which according to TomsHardware is around 200cdm2, but if I go to 100% I notice the washing out on the corners very often. At 50% I dont notice when i'm watching a Non Very Dark Game like Doom or The EVil Within. On those games, I suggest you turn the Gamma/Brighntess Up, and on Dark Movies, Turn up the Gamma.

Other than these issues, i had no other problems whatsoever with the monitor, i'd happily recomend it for the price, it's a no brainer, but really wished to have my freesync range widden.

I cant compare it to the Dell S2718H, got no experience with it. But if it's got some form of HDR, it's got to be a different panel than this, because this panel can't handle extreme deep blacks with high brightness.
 
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Legend! Just placed my order before bed (11pm here in Tasmania, Australia). 15% off ended at midnight, so thank you so much for the long and detailed reply! I'll reply fully with more details tomorrow! I think I've got a photo of the IPS bleed somewhere too.

Cheers!
 
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The build quality sounds a lot like my old Dell screen, which is so good to hear. Some people out there said Dell aren't what they were 5+ years ago, and my U2311H was 6yrs old. And you're right about the desk - I'm temporarily on a small simple desk, which is still reasonably sturdy - but might be bringing out extra wobble in the screen.

Colours of this LG screen aren't as good as my Dell, but that could be down to other factors like the LED backlight, and also the minimum brightness being a lot higher - my old Dell could be dimmed right down with the CFL backlights.

Personally I never noticed an issue with input lag/response time or ghosting with my old dell screen, which was slower and worse in the ufo test than this LG screen, and I believe it was similar in the input lag test (millisecond timer photo).

I also haven't noticed the difference between 60 and 75fps, but *definitely* noticed a difference with Free-sync! It's really hard to go back to a normal screen. I don't *think* I've noticed the stutter below the freesync range.

The chat about the freesync range is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsa...esync_1080p_ips_75hz/?st=jbq5fumh&sh=74766935
A tutorial on using CRU to adjust the freesync range is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...asing_and_decreasing/?st=jbrxd1si&sh=4be87650


The IPS glow problem I mentioned should be in the embedded picture if it works properly...:
y4mPKMTozkKqgBMM5uhb-qIzpztWzkCYw6lRES56cI7lLWaNn_YAZmi_Q0eCOIAJd2VYpRtik6IbQ0r8ktOLbjINtTqCIbNOUurcnKg_MoP9J5LNFARm-bRGTcbxG5d7fD6U7KYTgW4EM18edbouzK_6UqmbStG0bX6Sll_Y7hROwUhgzEdsLxCRemMqu5qzaFq27kLQyA8vTY9BA6hwR4XYA

Reducing the monitor brightness to 0 has mostly resolved the issue - and the monitor is still crazy bright at 0 (at midnight anyway, and I don't bother raising brightness during the day as its bright enough at 0). My old dell screen was nowhere near this bad though, it had a tiny glow from the very corners but you basically never noticed it.

I'll report back when I get the new monitor on the 4th of January and probably set up some side by side photos.

Cheers!
-Adam

edit: let me know if I should make the IPS glow photo smaller or a link instead.
 
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The build quality sounds a lot like my old Dell screen, which is so good to hear. Some people out there said Dell aren't what they were 5+ years ago, and my U2311H was 6yrs old. And you're right about the desk - I'm temporarily on a small simple desk, which is still reasonably sturdy - but might be bringing out extra wobble in the screen.

Colours of this LG screen aren't as good as my Dell, but that could be down to other factors like the LED backlight, and also the minimum brightness being a lot higher - my old Dell could be dimmed right down with the CFL backlights.

Personally I never noticed an issue with input lag/response time or ghosting with my old dell screen, which was slower and worse in the ufo test than this LG screen, and I believe it was similar in the input lag test (millisecond timer photo).

I also haven't noticed the difference between 60 and 75fps, but *definitely* noticed a difference with Free-sync! It's really hard to go back to a normal screen. I don't *think* I've noticed the stutter below the freesync range.

The chat about the freesync range is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsa...esync_1080p_ips_75hz/?st=jbq5fumh&sh=74766935
A tutorial on using CRU to adjust the freesync range is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...asing_and_decreasing/?st=jbrxd1si&sh=4be87650


The IPS glow problem I mentioned should be in the embedded picture if it works properly...:
y4mPKMTozkKqgBMM5uhb-qIzpztWzkCYw6lRES56cI7lLWaNn_YAZmi_Q0eCOIAJd2VYpRtik6IbQ0r8ktOLbjINtTqCIbNOUurcnKg_MoP9J5LNFARm-bRGTcbxG5d7fD6U7KYTgW4EM18edbouzK_6UqmbStG0bX6Sll_Y7hROwUhgzEdsLxCRemMqu5qzaFq27kLQyA8vTY9BA6hwR4XYA

Reducing the monitor brightness to 0 has mostly resolved the issue - and the monitor is still crazy bright at 0 (at midnight anyway, and I don't bother raising brightness during the day as its bright enough at 0). My old dell screen was nowhere near this bad though, it had a tiny glow from the very corners but you basically never noticed it.

I'll report back when I get the new monitor on the 4th of January and probably set up some side by side photos.

Cheers!
-Adam

edit: let me know if I should make the IPS glow photo smaller or a link instead.
Hey Adam,

The pic you posted here seems like my Dell SE2717H at 100% brightness, and as you can see, it's a really noticeable glow/backlight bleed.
My dell at 0% is actually not dim looking at all either. My surroundings seems just as dim as yours.
I use it at 0% for reading articles regarding my thesis, webbrowsing, etc, even youtube videos are fine, but when I go watch a movie or anime i turn it up to 50% or 70% for the entertainment effect and sit on my bed for maximum comfort. I should also add that I have a MediaLight Bias Lighting installed (a 6500k led strip) on the back of the monitor, so it makes the monitor not look too bright. It's comfortable for the eyes. If i had no bias light than maybe 0% might be a little too bright, even with a room lamp.

I hope the Dell isn't too similar to your LG in colours, because i believe there are only a few panel manufacturers, mostly: Samsung (VAs and PLS) and LG (IPS especially).

I will look into the links provided for the Driver stuff.
When you get your Dell, please share your experience, if the colours are better/worse/same, etc
 
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Hey Adam,

The pic you posted here seems like my Dell SE2717H at 100% brightness, and as you can see, it's a really noticeable glow/backlight bleed.
My dell at 0% is actually not dim looking at all either. My surroundings seems just as dim as yours.
I hope the Dell isn't too similar to your LG in colours, because i believe there are only a few panel manufacturers, mostly: Samsung (VAs and PLS) and LG (IPS especially).
That's interesting as I did read the panels for both are likely made in the same LG factory. I am hoping that Dell takes the top cut of the quality control panels, and builds them into a better body/base. I can't remember exactly what effects IPS glow compared to backlight bleed, but there was a difference. I believe backlight bleed can be user repaired by opening the screen and using black tape around the edges of the screen, yet IPS glow is more of a construction and internal issue that can't be easily patched up.

If not, I am mainly buying the Dell 27" screen as I found the 24" to be the perfect desktop use screen, but a touch small for gaming - especially when you want to sit back with an xbox or steam controller for more casual games.

Here is a pic of the LG 24MP59 (left) next to my old faithful Dell U2311H. I can't remember the settings, but I'm sure this was the LG at 0 brightness, and the Dell at my old settings of about 30% (0% on the dell was almost candle light). Excuse the clutter... It was a very busy week.
y4mJY7Fzwv5f0h0PYr6bevQ1V3gQo_jziXL1NvqzJ3O_Rg-NizHzFNPoht4snU2nEU-_BbLAqqMx3T-nG70yVlLJtvsIT24oDHFGM5Gw9tIR7XuPBPEJrqaYSU6skDG9s5z3tNrwvk0THUaEhy6MiF0BjFSedm1ag8xXSmGn6-J61olCkxAoHVVxFo2ZqWjulgauIwYS3jUlUCEIqcnTofRyA

The washed out picture on the left isn't as bad as it looks - that is just the camera exposure. You could notice the difference in colours though. They were more rich and balanced on the old dell, yet brighter and more "pop" on the LG. The other odd difference with the screens was how F.Lux worked (an app that changes the Kelvin colour in stages as you get closer to bed time). F.Lux seemed to work a lot better and more effectively on the old Dell, with the LG monitor just changing colour and not necessarily getting less harsh - this is probably down to the LED backlighting which would have a very different CRI to the fluro backlights.

CRI from memory is a rating of lightbulbs to how "full" the light is by colour spectrum. LED is generally only one colour source of light - say 6500k, yet incandescent lights have a wide range as they are from a burning wire. This is one of the reasons that camera photos indoors under fluorescent lighting has odd skin colours, as the camera is trying to adjust to the odd colour/spectrum. It's a good topic to read up on, and it makes you reconsider buying cheap lightbulbs for your house - especially if you regularly take photos indoors.

For sake of backlighting, I used a lamp on the table (at the time, I was set up on the very sturdy dining table with heaps of space), which also provided nice lighting for the rest of the living room at night time with just a 6w CFL bulb.

I can't seem to find the other photos of my testing/comparison at the time, but for the most part, the LG is still a good monitor for anyone else reading this. The price was right for me to experiment, and it is surely far better in picture quality at slight viewing angles than a TN monitor of a similar price - and the freesync is what concretes the deal (you'll need an AMD Radeon video card which also supports freesync over HDMI). I am mainly writing all of this as I took a step backwards in picture quality from my old faithful and looking to get the best of both worlds. The dell 27" isnt *too* much more expensive - especially when you consider it an investment that will last many years and will be one of the longest lasting computer components in today's 6-month to 1 year upgrade cycle for some people and their video cards just to keep up with the latest games!

More info when I receive the new Dell SE2717H.

Cheers!
-Adam
 
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That's interesting as I did read the panels for both are likely made in the same LG factory. I am hoping that Dell takes the top cut of the quality control panels, and builds them into a better body/base. I can't remember exactly what effects IPS glow compared to backlight bleed, but there was a difference. I believe backlight bleed can be user repaired by opening the screen and using black tape around the edges of the screen, yet IPS glow is more of a construction and internal issue that can't be easily patched up.

If not, I am mainly buying the Dell 27" screen as I found the 24" to be the perfect desktop use screen, but a touch small for gaming - especially when you want to sit back with an xbox or steam controller for more casual games.

Here is a pic of the LG 24MP59 (left) next to my old faithful Dell U2311H. I can't remember the settings, but I'm sure this was the LG at 0 brightness, and the Dell at my old settings of about 30% (0% on the dell was almost candle light). Excuse the clutter... It was a very busy week.
y4mJY7Fzwv5f0h0PYr6bevQ1V3gQo_jziXL1NvqzJ3O_Rg-NizHzFNPoht4snU2nEU-_BbLAqqMx3T-nG70yVlLJtvsIT24oDHFGM5Gw9tIR7XuPBPEJrqaYSU6skDG9s5z3tNrwvk0THUaEhy6MiF0BjFSedm1ag8xXSmGn6-J61olCkxAoHVVxFo2ZqWjulgauIwYS3jUlUCEIqcnTofRyA

The washed out picture on the left isn't as bad as it looks - that is just the camera exposure. You could notice the difference in colours though. They were more rich and balanced on the old dell, yet brighter and more "pop" on the LG. The other odd difference with the screens was how F.Lux worked (an app that changes the Kelvin colour in stages as you get closer to bed time). F.Lux seemed to work a lot better and more effectively on the old Dell, with the LG monitor just changing colour and not necessarily getting less harsh - this is probably down to the LED backlighting which would have a very different CRI to the fluro backlights.

CRI from memory is a rating of lightbulbs to how "full" the light is by colour spectrum. LED is generally only one colour source of light - say 6500k, yet incandescent lights have a wide range as they are from a burning wire. This is one of the reasons that camera photos indoors under fluorescent lighting has odd skin colours, as the camera is trying to adjust to the odd colour/spectrum. It's a good topic to read up on, and it makes you reconsider buying cheap lightbulbs for your house - especially if you regularly take photos indoors.

For sake of backlighting, I used a lamp on the table (at the time, I was set up on the very sturdy dining table with heaps of space), which also provided nice lighting for the rest of the living room at night time with just a 6w CFL bulb.

I can't seem to find the other photos of my testing/comparison at the time, but for the most part, the LG is still a good monitor for anyone else reading this. The price was right for me to experiment, and it is surely far better in picture quality at slight viewing angles than a TN monitor of a similar price - and the freesync is what concretes the deal (you'll need an AMD Radeon video card which also supports freesync over HDMI). I am mainly writing all of this as I took a step backwards in picture quality from my old faithful and looking to get the best of both worlds. The dell 27" isnt *too* much more expensive - especially when you consider it an investment that will last many years and will be one of the longest lasting computer components in today's 6-month to 1 year upgrade cycle for some people and their video cards just to keep up with the latest games!

More info when I receive the new Dell SE2717H.

Cheers!
-Adam
Hi Adam,

You really do know what you're talking about. All the info you said here I already knew, except for the Fluorescent lights having such a low CRI.

My MediaLight Bias Lighting is a 90+ CRI LED Strip 6500K that's dimmable with a remote with 10 steps (10%-100% and even off), and can be connected to your PC so it's only on when you use the PC or TV, pretty cool. This MediaLight is considered budget since it's around 40$ in the US, but i could only buy it in Europe for around 80-90€...

I've also painted my room wall that's behind the monitor to a Neutral Grey (closest I could get was a NCS 2500-N which is around 186-186-184 RGB wise I believe?). I worked at a Paint Shop so I mixed the 2500-N formula and while it looks a bit warmer than it should (comparing to the monitor), it's close enough for me, I'm no photographer but i'm really picky with displays and lights.

Freesync is a GODSEND. I can only feel sorry for the people that bought a 1060 and want to buy a new monitor right now. Not only the RX580 cards are more future proof with more vram, better dx12 and vulkan support, but especially, they allow you have adaptive refresh rate without paying sometimes double the cost for the gsync monitor. And yet we see the ignorance of most consumers, when the RX480 got outsold 5 to 1 (!!!) for the 1060. I wish Nvidia supported Freesync. No wonder AMD targets miners, Nvidia has such mindshare that they'll buy anything that says Nvidia over AMD anyday even if they cost the same, they just trust Nvidia more, and regarding AMD GPU division inferior arquitecture products, bad marketing, i can't really say i'm surprised. I don't mean to start a war here so lets move on.

Anyway, regarding freesync, I'm having issues using the tutorial supplied to work, I suspect it might be the drivers i'm using, i have the Adrenalin 17.12.1. When I try to change resolution on the AMD settings nothing happens at all. Maybe it's got something to do with some suposedly Dell monitor drivers I installed, maybe I shouldn't have. Its like neither CRU or AMD settings can control the monitor. I will leave this at standby for now, will try to fix in a month or two.

I would really like to hear your opinion on the Dell 2717H, because if the panel is EXACTLY the same as the LG, i may consider selling this one and buy the LG, IF i can't fix the freesync range issue ,because it's pretty annoying on some games.
 
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Hello! Very very sorry for the slow reply! I have had the tab open in my browser since, but have been so busy and exhausted to test properly and write up a decent reply!

I did finally test the monitors side by side last week, but that took so long, I ran out of time to write a full post! Anyway, its Saturday morning now and I've had a nice strong coffee!

Now, where to begin... (TL;DR at the bottom)

Resetting both monitors to factory default settings, the Dell looks fairly accurate on white, slightly warm - but comfortably so, the LG is slightly blue which seems harsh to me. I previously configured my LG colours to 50 red (default), 40 green, 40 blue, which comes out close to the default Dell colours. so +1 Dell so far for nicer calibration by default (I'm talking eye comfort, not actual colour accuracy - I don't have my display calibration Spyder anymore, I felt that I could do just as good myself).

The brightness goes a lot lower - just like my old Dell U2311h. I leave the Dell about 30% brightness for internet and email so my eyes aren't burning, up to 50% for gaming. To compare to the LG on 0% brightness the Dell would be about 13% - The numbers seem off, since the dell on 0% looks a lot lower than 13% less, its more like 20-30% less. I had the LG left on 0% for both reading and games, and I often found that late at night reading forums on the LG, I kept wanting to reduce the brightness below 0 as white text was harsh to read, and black text on white seemed like the monitor was a lamp in my face, I ended up reducing the contrast to around 50% to reduce the harshness, yet it was still bright.

The Dell also goes a reasonable amount brighter too defaulting to 75% which is similar to the LG's default 100%. Turning up the Dell to 100% is more like an extra 10-15% brightness.

I briefly went through the Lagom LCD test the other day. I remember having a hard time setting things up on the LG screen - having to tweak all sorts of extra settings the LG had like black levels, gamma settings, power efficiency, etc. and still had a hard time trying to get every test perfect. In the end I think I gave up thinking that I was just splitting hairs, and went with custom monitor settings that looked "right" with text and with games. The Lagom LCD test is a good base to start from as it can identify any faults with your monitor, or any settings that are way out - like gamma. I think the LG worked best with gamma on either OFF or LOW, but its like there needed to be a middle ground between off and low because either setting would skew other tests like contrast. I only briefly went through the tests on the Dell as I didn't want to burn as much time as I did on the LG, and generally felt like everything was accurate out of the box. I'll update you if I go through the test again.

The other things on the Lagom LCD test are input lag - which is basically the delay created by the monitor's image processing and refresh rate combined. The test showed about 1 frame difference, which is technically 16ms I believe (out of 1 frame at 60fps being 16.6ms). I previously did this at 75fps, but just re-did the test on 60 and it seems to be about the same. I also tried all of the response time settings on both monitor menus which made next to no difference. So +1 to the LG here. Personally I have never noticed any problems in games with things like response times or input lag - except for Dead Island 1 + 2 which turned out to be made for controllers, and when using keyboard and mouse, the constant input of wwwwwwww for forward and the mouse movement created input lag and stutter which drove me crazy. I ended up finishing the game with a xbox controller or steam controller which was then perfectly smooth when using a joystick input. It pays to find out if a game is a console port or not. Unfortunately, a lot of them are. The same goes for ghosting, I've never really noticed it or been phased by it, I believe I only ever noticed it in game with a really old 17" LCD when they where first replacing CRT's. Since then, I think it's an outdated concern. I am also far from a pro CS:GO "flick shooter" - so far from it, that my preference for multiplayer games are PVE player vs environment - team vs PC. I've strangely found PUBG to be a great game concept - only that the lag tends to be a real issue.

Back on topic!!

Freesync...

I have not noticed or been paying too much attention to freesync's performance yet. It may be that I have left graphics settings medium-low to maintain a high frame rate at all times. Its really only single player games that have been well drawn that I like to crank up settings and put up with varying framerates. I think I am also quite used to having freesync now. I should really test by turning it off for a few game hours and see if I *really* notice a difference. Disclaimer: I have been having terrible stutter problems for the last year or so which has boggled me so much that I have basically given up on a solution. It doesn't seem to be a freesync issue, its more like CPU or GPU issue where its just locking up for a few microseconds, and then once the frame is drawn and sent to the monitor, freesync displays it immediately. It looks like a stutter, probably because freesync is waiting on the new frame to be drawn. I often see 75fps when this stuttering is happening - most of the time it is while something is panning across the screen. I recorded videos of both monitors side by side doing the AMD Freesync Windmill test. Let me know if you'd like me to upload them - which may show freesync performance - or it might just show my disappointing stutter. Something I did notice is the freesync settings in the windmill test showed lower FPS test settings with only the LG monitor on (45, 50, 55, 60FPS) - which would be from the lower freesync limit - proving that the LG is definitely 40-75. Strangely the minimum test setting of the dell was 55 and not 50, indicating that my Dell might have a minimum that is higher than 48, maybe even 50+. On the Radeon driver software, under Display, if you hover the mouse over the freesync button it shows the LG reporting 40-75, and the Dell reporting 48-75. I have downloaded the nVidia Pendulum test which apparently allows for lower framerates to test manually. I'll have to give that a try later on. so for now, that's +1 LG.

Finally one problem that I, and several others, have noticed - when connecting via HDMI to the Dell and putting the PC to sleep, the Dell reports lost signal with a 5min wait like a disconnected cable - rather than receiving a sleep signal and powering off instantly. I also tested this on a Dell laptop with HDMI which also came up with lost signal, which rules out the RX470 or the cable. I tried another cable to be sure, with same results. Now a similar issue also happened for the LG, but when using displayport, where the monitor would go to sleep properly, but would not receive the wake signal, and would need to be manually turned back on... HDMI with the LG worked perfectly with this RX470. So something in the monitor's programming isn't listening to the HDMI sleep signal. People on the google searches claim that sleep works fine over VGA - but freesync does not, and its 2017/8... VGA should no longer exist, lol. Speaking of which, it was disappointing to see that the Dell shipped with only a VGA cable... the LG on the other hand shipped with a HDMI so that's -1 Dell (sleep problem), and +1 LG for HDMI.

Sorry again for the delay - but as you can see, there was a lot on my mind to unload - which I think has taken me about an hour or more to type, haha.

Quick response to your last post - CRI is new to me, and difficult to find. That LED light sounds fantastic. Greater than 80 is good, greater than 90 is excellent, incandescent and halogen are near 100. The grey wall sounds like a good idea - I'm renting this house, maybe when I buy again. I'll play around with the freesync ranges at some stage in the future, I might even bump it up the to do list, because its... important... haha.

TL;DR. So far, Dell is better quality picture, brightness, and colour wise - I am happier with the Dell. LG is better for gaming and performance with some brightness/colour/gamma tweaking required - it also requires freesync to be activated in the monitor menus. Dell also requires 75hz to be manually selected in the windows control panel - display settings somewhere.

Cheers!
-Adam

edit: now for some breakfast (at midday), then I'll upload some comparison pics later
 
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Hello again! I made some discoveries today.

First was that my trusted monitor HDMI cable which I thought was good, turns out to be cheap and lacks shielding via 5 pins - one of which is for CEC - Consumer Electronics Control. I started on the quest for information when my monitor was flicking off for a second when my LED desk lamp was switched on. I stumbled on the info from google searching which gave a lot of ideas, but it wasn't until someone showed a HDMI cable pin-out and his results (albeit incorrectly numbered). I tested this one with a multi-meter, that I found the problem. Testing all of my cables - even some that I swore were cheap and nasty - are actually better than this one - all others have continuity on the shielding pins. These other cables therefore resolve my issue with the monitor not going to sleep with the PC (the same way that HDMI link can turn on/off your home theatre with the TV). I've taken a nice looking diagram from the internet for a socket which I have reversed the words and numbers to make it relevant for testing cable ends. Just take both cable ends and hold them in a way that you can probe identical pins with a continuity buzzer and check that every pin has continuity - except 18 (which is 5v for extenders and rarely used). The yellow lines indicate the shielded circuits and which wires they shield. I used sharp multimeter probes held (like chopsticks) gently into the tiny squares beside each matching pin - you don't have to push hard to set off the buzzer - otherwise get someone to hold the cables if its a bit tricky. Years of being a mechanic and soldering has given me the technique.

y4mAoI6mNkYWj1w_wBb-sHKXcJ0_oiU07LPsU9leVSumRzNau9n29eX2l2yvvciFWIsQJyFoR0wfZP138TPQjsuNfWuL-idIpQ-SOP3hsL4QZaW06xdG1UqPBzCDA0V09PCba_MsHaiepNPhyP1KcO3hUWifFFEMkbwkUl2fwycYOmrCWh8yxicJ-737bF-omFKpoC2baSCdwzStZpMIRcXuw


After resolving that issue, I thought I'd re-check freesync in case it works smoother and without stutter with a better, and shielded cable. I believe something Windows has changed in the last 6 months or so has ruined the AMD Freesync windmill demo. I found the nVidia Pendulum demo which only allows vsync on or off, and Gsync if available. When that first launches it is around 20fps and a stuttery mess. Once you select an option like 50 or 60fps, its all smooth with vsync on, and tearing with vsync off as you'd expect. I switched the demo to the "Test Pattern" at the bottom of the screen. I then selected the FPS range selection and started entering values around the freesync cut-offs of each monitor. The Dell SE2717h is smooth down to about 55fps and then has slight stutters, and is then pretty choppy by 49fps. The LG 24mp59g however as smooth down to 45fps and pretty choppy and some slight screen flashing below that. I haven't played with CRU Custom Resolution Utility at all yet. It would be interesting to find out if some monitors have better hardware than others - since both of these screens seem to struggle close to their minimum Freesync range. It could however be something to do with the latest windows 10 versions as well. I'm getting tempted to try a temporary install of windows 7 to see if these stutter issues disappear... Current winver is 1709 build 16299.192 (just press windows key and type winver and hit enter).

I'd love to hear your responses and opinions of everything too - are you thinking about the jump to LG? Let me know if there's anything you'd like me to check out or compare for you.

Cheers!
-Adam
 
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Hi Adam,

Thank you for your very detailed response ! Sorry i didn't reply sooner, it's just I'm kinda busy atm. I'll try to summarize :

-I will not trade my Dell because of the minimum brightness of the lg you report. My dell at 0% is already sometimes a bit too bright, though perfectly manageable with bias lighting and a small lamp. I couldnt stand using it at 30% as a minimum though...

- Also, I managed to fix the freesync from 48-75 to 36-60. I couldn't make it 36-75 sadly. It seems Dell is choppy at 52 fps and below stock 48-75. I used the pendulum test as well.
But at 36-60 I cant really tell a difference in gaming as from 75hz. Unless i try really hard to see it. In a game like Doom it's more noticeable but still a load of enjoyable.
However this 36-60 made my ridiculously modded skyrim finally enjoyable as well as GTA 5 and Watchdogs. Stutter no more! (i even upped the anti aliasing without ever reaching the stuttering point of the low freesync.)

To change the range is actually ridiculously easy to do, but instructions online for hdmi are hard to find. Here's how to change freesync range for HDMI:
First set the monitor refresh rate to 60hz on WINDOWS (75hz won't work with 36-60). Then download cru 1.29 or up as it's the only version that supports hdmi freesync. Run it, and below, you see a box with something called detailed blocks (cant recall name exactly, but its the last of the 3 boxes on the right) . Click that and edit. Freesync range should be displayed there. Click that and edit. Choose values. Press OK on cru to close it.
Restart Driver or PC.
This is how Hdmi monitors refresh rate is changed, the tutorial you supplied works on DP and DVI, but Hdmi freesync range is changed on another setting in Cru.

My monitor did 36-60, so far 100% stable and no black frames whatsoever. It couldn't reach 35-60 though, imediate black frames

- Very happy to know my Dell has accurate colors!
- Slightly disappointed at the input lag difference from the LG though. However i rarely play fast shooters now and most of my entertainment comes from anime so for me the dells input lag is pretty acceptable, can shoot pretty accurately in gta5 and doom, good enough for me.
- I got the same annoying no signal for HDMI. I've gotta try your solution, thanks for pointing that out! ItllI help the monitors led lifespan.

Thanks for your input Adam, and hope my input was helpful to you.
Cheers
 
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Hi NateCordova,

I'm very happy to hear that my testing has helped you, just as your advice on the se2717h helped me go ahead with this sweet upgrade!

Thank you for pointing out how easy the CRU tool is. I've downloaded v1.31 to give it a go. So when you say your dell is choppy at and below 52fps, there will be no point trying with CRU to get 40-75 since the hardware is likely the limiting factor already? Saying that reminds me of something I read about overclocking monitors (back before freesync) where you would drive your 60hz monitor as fast as it would go - I believe people reached as high as 75 or 80 on some screens. I believe I also read somewhere about the LG freesync screen, where the monitor ships with freesync off and 60hz capped - you activate freesync in the menu which overclocks/overdrives the monitor to 75hz and also enables freesync. I wonder if you get better and smoother results at 36-60 because the monitor is no longer overclocked to reach 75hz, and is then more stable running at less than 48?

I'm still undecided on which FPS range I want. Its like seeing 75fps in the framerate counter feels good or feels right to me now. When I first set up the LG monitor, 75fps showed me that freesync was enabled and working, some games in the beginning ran at 60 - even though the monitor was set to 75hz in windows with freesync enabled. I can't remember what was happening or what the solution was, but whatever I changed in those games then sent the monitor the 75fps it needed, and also enabled freesync. Stutter free gaming does sound very enticing though - even at the sacrifice of the "extra smoothness" from extra frames in between the normal 60 per second. Better to run smooth, than to run fast I guess!

I should probably just go ahead and set my screen to 36-60 and see if I can even spot the difference. If I cant - well then, ultra settings all round! (I don't think I've noticed any troubles with games obtaining 75fps, or if I did, it was other issues dragging performance down like game optimisation (PUBG))...

Cheers!
-Adam
 
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Quick update. I had a quick play around with CRU v1.31. Seems like I can set my monitor down to 30-60 and it resets the driver ok, but running the pendulum starts filcking black, then eventually a Dell message pops up saying out of timing ranges. Setting it back to 35, I can get pendulum test running that low, yet I am seeing a trend that stuttering starts 2-4fps above the minimum freesync range. ie when CRU set to 40-60, stuttering starts around 42-44. set it to 48-60 and stuttering starts around 50-52ish. So it doesn't seem like its a hardware limitation, rather the way the software controls the hardware - maybe things get a bit hairy close to the minimum range. I'll get on with some games before bed for tonight at a safe 36-60. Tomorrow I might toy around with seeing how low 75hz can go - maybe even 40-75.

Also strangely the first time I set 36-60, I believe it showed exactly that in Radeon display when hovering over the freesync setting. After going below 34, it seems to show a max freesync range of 59hz - even when setting it to 40-60 and when clicking recovery mode and restoring the defaults. Maybe I was used to seeing 48-75, and 48-59 is just what you get when the monitor is set to 60hz. In fact, I think I recall seeing ToasterX writing a reply to someone about the same thing saying that 60hz is technically 59.94hz or something, maybe Radeon software just rounds it down rather than up.

EDIT: turns out the setting had been changed on me in Windows display settings. Was set on 60, then when I checked it later, it was on 59hz - something must have happened when playing with CRU. Also, I did one last reset at 36-60 so that I had the F8 dialogue box open while gaming in case it glitched during the game. Immediately after the reset, the whole screen went like a chequerboard with what was on screen and white squares. I hit F8 and it took a little bit to recover (20-30sec), also had the old mouse cursor stuck on screen. Checking device manager showed an ! mark next to the RX470 - must have been a video card error. I'll try 48-60 first (Fallout New Vegas is hardly an intensive game - haha, I'm sure it wont drop below 60/59fps)

Either way, I'll test it out and see if I notice things being more smooth overall, or if I notice the extra 15fps missing.

Cheers!
 
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Quick update. I had a quick play around with CRU v1.31. Seems like I can set my monitor down to 30-60 and it resets the driver ok, but running the pendulum starts filcking black, then eventually a Dell message pops up saying out of timing ranges. Setting it back to 35, I can get pendulum test running that low, yet I am seeing a trend that stuttering starts 2-4fps above the minimum freesync range. ie when CRU set to 40-60, stuttering starts around 42-44. set it to 48-60 and stuttering starts around 50-52ish. So it doesn't seem like its a hardware limitation, rather the way the software controls the hardware - maybe things get a bit hairy close to the minimum range. I'll get on with some games before bed for tonight at a safe 36-60. Tomorrow I might toy around with seeing how low 75hz can go - maybe even 40-75.

Also strangely the first time I set 36-60, I believe it showed exactly that in Radeon display when hovering over the freesync setting. After going below 34, it seems to show a max freesync range of 59hz - even when setting it to 40-60 and when clicking recovery mode and restoring the defaults. Maybe I was used to seeing 48-75, and 48-59 is just what you get when the monitor is set to 60hz. In fact, I think I recall seeing ToasterX writing a reply to someone about the same thing saying that 60hz is technically 59.94hz or something, maybe Radeon software just rounds it down rather than up.

EDIT: turns out the setting had been changed on me in Windows display settings. Was set on 60, then when I checked it later, it was on 59hz - something must have happened when playing with CRU. Also, I did one last reset at 36-60 so that I had the F8 dialogue box open while gaming in case it glitched during the game. Immediately after the reset, the whole screen went like a chequerboard with what was on screen and white squares. I hit F8 and it took a little bit to recover (20-30sec), also had the old mouse cursor stuck on screen. Checking device manager showed an ! mark next to the RX470 - must have been a video card error. I'll try 48-60 first (Fallout New Vegas is hardly an intensive game - haha, I'm sure it wont drop below 60/59fps)

Either way, I'll test it out and see if I notice things being more smooth overall, or if I notice the extra 15fps missing.

Cheers!

Yeah there seems to be stuttering 2-4 fps from freesync range here as well. Thats why 52 fps feels choppy on stock 48-75. Maybe its due to this monitor beeing one of the first with HDMI freesync

Why dont you try simply increasing the minimum frame by frame from 36fps? The other guy on that forum with a dell se2717H only managed 38-60hz so maybe I got a bit lucky on my panel? Try something like 37, 38, 39 etc. I also used CRU 1.39 beta, but I dont believe that its the reason for hitting a stable 36-60 rather than a narrower range.

PS: dont know if ive told you but i frame cap my games to 2 fps below max refresh rate (58 fps here) using msi afterburner (ive seen a video that concluded that frame capping with amd software added like 12ms of input lag but with afterburner only like 4ms). With a framecap 2 fps below freesync range, you get the best of both worlds: no tearing or lag.

PSS: New Vegas is a hell of a great game, I loved how you could literally kill EVERYBODY or EVERYTHING on the game, made some hilarious moments there. Also the Sierra Madre DLC is just frightening in such a good way. Ill never forget Sierra Madre, it was an experience that really made an impression on me, which is kind of hard to do as im the later part of the 20s and I feel gaming starting to wear off a bit. In comparison, i never made it past 4 hours on fallout3, its just feels empty
 
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