Cheating in multi-player gaming (particularly BF5)

[Quartz]

I've just been watching a video on cheating in BF5 - which I don't play - and it seems immediately obvious to me that BF5 violates one of the basic rules of MP gaming - don't trust the client. All these wallhacks, aimbots, and the like would be utterly useless if the client didn't have knowledge of targets until necessary. If a player is looking in a particular direction, only then does the client check the server for visible enemies, for instance. If a target is on the other side of a wall, then the client gets sent no information on the target's location. And so on.

What am I missing?

 

[~>Dg<~]

cheating isnt new. just enjoy your games. once you start looking more and more into who and why people cheat it just detracts from actually having fun. just accept cheating is in all games . move on.

 

[PiKe]

cheating isnt new. just enjoy your games. once you start looking more and more into who and why people cheat it just detracts from actually having fun. just accept cheating is in all games . move on.

That really isn't the point of the thread, the OP is suggesting why do publishers make it so technically easy to do so.

I think the reason they are coded with the client rather than a dedicated server is because it's cheaper to have peer to peer rather than a dedicated server doing all the work.

 

[Megahurtz400]

That really isn't the point of the thread, the OP is suggesting why do publishers make it so technically easy to do so.

With my knowledge of these things (0) I’d say it would probably just cost more for the developer to make the changes nessecary.

Games are no longer art and made for enjoyment and creative output, they’re a cash cow just like films/music Been that way for the past decade.

 

[VincentHanna]

just accept cheating is in all games . move on.

Not on console, unless the developer has left some exploit in

Modern console games can't be hacked like PC games as they are more locked down.

 

[Bug One]

I've just been watching a video on cheating in BF5 - which I don't play - and it seems immediately obvious to me that BF5 violates one of the basic rules of MP gaming - don't trust the client. All these wallhacks, aimbots, and the like would be utterly useless if the client didn't have knowledge of targets until necessary. If a player is looking in a particular direction, only then does the client check the server for visible enemies, for instance. If a target is on the other side of a wall, then the client gets sent no information on the target's location. And so on.

What am I missing?

I expect that takes more server resources to achieve. Potential lag?

 

[Ayahuasca]

Not on console, unless the developer has left some exploit in

Modern console games can't be hacked like PC games as they are more locked down.

That's a complete fallacy.

There have and still are a number of exploits available across a range of console titles.

 

[Quartz]

I expect that takes more server resources to achieve. Potential lag?

We're talking a round trip of less than half a second, probably less than a quarter of a second if the server is reasonably local. That's around human reaction time.

 

[VincentHanna]

That's a complete fallacy.

There have and still are a number of exploits available across a range of console titles.

On last gen consoles maybe, I know Call of Duty was pretty bad.

Not on PS4 and Xbox One.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Not on PS4 and Xbox One.

GTA V came to mind straight away, I remember being in lobbies where people were shooting these money bags at people.

That's just one example, I know the PUBG radar hack worked on Xbox One also.

It's much less prevalent than on PC as it's usually much more difficult, but to say they can't be hacked is just a lie.

 

[~>Dg<~]

That really isn't the point of the thread, the OP is suggesting why do publishers make it so technically easy to do so.

I think the reason they are coded with the client rather than a dedicated server is because it's cheaper to have peer to peer rather than a dedicated server doing all the work.

its pretty simple. you have studios who make games cheating isnt number one priority. they do third party anticheats. who are under equipt to deal with mass cheats or private paid cheats. cheat makers especially paid ones have big money . so it becomes paid company making cheats vs third party either donation based anticheat or low budget anticheats. thats why cheating increases. also studios arent going to spend millions of potential profit dealing with cheats when they can just keep that money and farm it to third party anticheats. thats why its done. doesnt matter how the cheating is done or how the game is made. cheating will happen. as it pays to do so for the companies that make it.

 

[VincentHanna]

GTA V came to mind straight away, I remember being in lobbies where people were shooting these money bags at people.

That's just one example, I know the PUBG radar hack worked on Xbox One also.

It's much less prevalent than on PC as it's usually much more difficult, but to say they can't be hacked is just a lie.

That video means nothing to me, as A) I don't play GTA5 online and B) it doesn't even show it's running on PS4 - It just says so in the description.

I did find something about PUBG radar hacks, but realistically how many people are doing this? Compared with how many PC gamers use aimbots, wallhacks etc.

The PUBG Radar Tool is a multitude of different software products (some private, some up for sale) that basically uses the accessible packets from your XBOX and the PUBG servers themselves. It is not a "hack", as XBOX's, for all intents and purposes, cannot be modified in such a way to outside software.

It allows the user to use their PC and a program as a go-between "router" to filter out information about the current game session (item locations, player locations, vehicles, etc.) This is accomplished by connecting the XBOX via e-thernet to the PC.

Using a separate screen, the program can give a player basically any advantage related to information.

The chance of coming across a cheater on console is minuscule, the chance of coming across one on PC is pretty likely.

 

[Ayahuasca]

That video means nothing to me, as A) I don't play GTA5 online and B) it doesn't even show it's running on PS4 - It just says so in the description.

I did find something about PUBG radar hacks, but realistically how many people are doing this? Compared with how many PC gamers use aimbots, wallhacks etc.

The chance of coming across a cheater on console is minuscule, the chance of coming across one on PC is pretty likely.

It doesn't matter if you didn't play GTA 5 online, that wasn't the argument I was making and maybe it isn't on PS4 in that video but I've seen it with my own eyes and have no reason to lie when it's evident all over the internet.

It's good to see you've changed your stance in that last sentence though and admitted it is possible instead of saying it can't be done on PS4 or Xbox One.

 

[Minstadave]

We're talking a round trip of less than half a second, probably less than a quarter of a second if the server is reasonably local. That's around human reaction time.

Half a second is massive when it comes to latency, especially in FPS.

My understanding is latency is the biggest issue when everything is done server side.

 

[Quartz]

Half a second is massive when it comes to latency, especially in FPS.

But you still get that latency when you have peer to peer.

 

[Zefan]

But you still get that latency when you have peer to peer.

Not with client-side hit detection. Note: it isn't about reaction times so much as it is about the very nature of FPS games. FPS = tracking targets down sights, almost always leading them using projectile/ballistic shooting mechanics, especially in modern shooters such as the BF series. The difference even a tenth of a second makes when attempting to land a shot that takes twice that time to travel to the target - all the while leading them as they move - is significant. You'd have to lead the target slightly short to land the shot, which ruins the immersion and gameplay mechanics completely. This is why as far as I know most FPS games use client side hit detection.

It isn't such a problem with less realistic games or 3rd person/mmos etc.

 

[SPG]

Well next gen console i am led to believe will be keyboard/mouse from the off. So, aside from a few choice titles, my PC gaming days will be pretty much over, while consoles are not perfect in terms of hacking its more of complication to do,

DEVS for years have not taken cheating seriously enough as it generates income for them BUNGHOLE are a perfect example of this.

Community servers would be nice again, where it was policed by the players and some crappy anti cheat-software that will always be behind the curve.

 

[Quartz]

Not with client-side hit detection.

Ah, that's different. You're relying on the client to be honest, and with cheat software that reliance fails. As I mentioned in my OP, you don't trust the client.

 

[Minstadave]

Ah, that's different. You're relying on the client to be honest, and with cheat software that reliance fails. As I mentioned in my OP, you don't trust the client.

If you don't have some client side role it becomes much harder to do decent hit detection. You can't really win.

 

[Quartz]

If you don't have some client side role it becomes much harder to do decent hit detection. You can't really win.

I played Aces High - an online flight combat simulator - in the days of modems and 300ms pings (the servers are in America) and hit detection was server-side and it worked fine.