Cherry Picked or Left Over ?

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Now, this is a question that has been grating against me for some time now.

And I am seriously thinking about building a new rig either for myself or someone.

So I thought I would ask in this forum of knowledgeable gentlemen.

Many companies(including Overclockers, Scan and many more) sell pre-overclocked bundles and rigs.

To do this, they claim to 'cherry pick' components to use in these rigs. To define 'cherry pick', my understanding of the term is that: company has a selection of components in stock, in their warehouse or wherever. Some of these components will exceed the manufacturers specifications and will readily overclock, sometimes very much so. Others will only work at the maximum rating as set by the manufacturer. From this set of stock they select components, test them on the rig they want to overclock, and from those that readily do overclock they choose to go into the rig.(In practice it will probably be a more sophisticated process with components being separated into tiers; I digress).

The upshot is that there are certain components, which, when tested, are shown not to be able to overclock past the manufacturer's specifications.

The question is : what happens to these components?

I would guess, like most commercial enterprises, these companies seek to get the maximum profit, so in due course sell these components(which they know cannot be overclocked) back to their customers at the standard stock price.

That would mean that buying a stock(non cherry picked, guaranteed overclockable) component from such company, vastly decreases the odds of 'winning the silicon lottery'(which I define as: purchasing a readily overclockable component from a random pool of components for sale). Given the increased(sometimes most likely vastly so) pool of low qualify components in the general component pool this would mean that for some companies, (I would guess) that the odds of buying a stock component which overclocks well is close to zero because of this practice.

CPUs and motherboards are likely to be most affected.

Is my model correct ? Am I missing some pertinent information ?

My purchasing pattern(and more importantly, the recommendations I give to others, is likely going to be affected, and I really would like to know if the model as I have above surmised, is accurate).

My thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer.

Gavin786
 
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prebuilt low overclocked cpu = lost the #siliconlottery and paying the etailer for losing the silicon lottery.
prebuilt high overclocked cpu = paying the etailer over the odds for binning a few hundred chips.

an etailer won't sell a chip that does 5.2ghz and advertise it as a 4.9ghz chip.
if it's advertised as a 4.9ghz chip, it literally is that. you can bet your house that it won't do 5ghz without exotic cooling/crazy volts (or a combination of both).

moral of the story, buy a random chip and DIY.
 
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prebuilt low overclocked cpu = lost the #siliconlottery and paying the etailer for losing the silicon lottery.
prebuilt high overclocked cpu = paying the etailer over the odds for binning a few hundred chips.

an etailer won't sell a chip that does 5.2ghz and advertise it as a 4.9ghz chip.
if it's advertised as a 4.9ghz chip, it literally is that. you can bet your house that it won't do 5ghz without exotic cooling/crazy volts (or a combination of both).

moral of the story, buy a random chip and DIY.

Thank you, I never realized that. So basically most chips(CPU) CAN be overclocked, there is a median point(of overclocking potential) and chips are being sold(and a premium charged) even though they are below that median point; that is that(especially for low binned overclocks) one pays a premium even though the chip is way below the average one would expect buying a stock chip.

So for that reason again it is best to buy a stock chip(from an etailer that does not cherry pick).

Even though the median point(of overclocking potential) is above zero(which I thought it was zero writing the above post), the population will still be skewed towards the lower end because of the cherry picking process ? Only way(in my thinking) that would not happen is if they never put a tested chip back into circulation and sold it as a stock chip.

It is a piece of the puzzle I didnt have before, but still does not answer the question of what happens to a chip that they want to bin that wont go above stocks? Does this actually NEVER happen ?
 
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@Gavin786 it depends on which chip you want to buy of course.
this is an enthusiast forum, so naturally most regulars here will buy a cpu that will be able to overclock. (ie intel -k suffix chips)
there're also cpus that aren't overclockable, so if you're buying those chips, then it makes no difference (ie intel chips without the -k suffix).
AMD ryzen is different in that all their cpus are overclockable. but due to their manufacturing process, it's not very overclockable, hence most (if not all) etailers don't offer binned AMD chips.

So for that reason again it is best to buy a stock chip(from an etailer that does not cherry pick).
Only way(in my thinking) that would not happen is if they never put a tested chip back into circulation and sold it as a stock chip.
ocuk has stated that oem -k chips that they sell aren't binned, if you're going to buy them as a separate item.

Even though the median point(of overclocking potential) is above zero(which I thought it was zero writing the above post)
from silicon lottery (american dates):
As of 2/6/19, 100% of tested 9900Ks were able to hit 4.8GHz or greater.
As of 2/6/19, the top 86% of tested 9900Ks were able to hit 4.9GHz or greater.
As of 2/6/19, the top 39% of tested 9900Ks were able to hit 5.0GHz or greater.
As of 2/6/19, the top 8% of tested 9900Ks were able to hit 5.1GHz or greater.

It is a piece of the puzzle I didnt have before, but still does not answer the question of what happens to a chip that they want to bin that wont go above stocks? Does this actually NEVER happen ?
they get sold as a part of a "pre-overclocked" bundle/system. hence my statement:
prebuilt low overclocked cpu = lost the #siliconlottery and paying the etailer for losing the silicon lottery.
 
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Given the increased(sometimes most likely vastly so) pool of low qualify components in the general component pool this would mean that for some companies, (I would guess) that the odds of buying a stock component which overclocks well is close to zero because of this practice.
Retail packed CPUs are always in sealed boxes.
So you would know if someone opened that to test CPU, possibly putting weaker than average individual into it.

It's bulk/OEM CPUs without own retail package, which could be worser individuals in cases shop sells also binned/overclocked CPUs.


Anyway there's no real world sense in relying or especially paying for overclocking
Despite/regardless of all the hype Intels reach that ~5GHz level only at expense of ridiculous power consumption.
And that difference over default settings boost clocks doesn't give any meaningfull performance increase to give any kind longer usable life before CPU gets old.

It was different decade ago when you could get like 30% extra clock speed...
And without ludicrous power consumption, because CPU wasn't already pushing limits of manufacturing tech to start with.
 
Soldato
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That would mean that buying a stock(non cherry picked, guaranteed overclockable) component from such company, vastly decreases the odds of 'winning the silicon lottery'(which I define as: purchasing a readily overclockable component from a random pool of components for sale). Given the increased(sometimes most likely vastly so) pool of low qualify components in the general component pool this would mean that for some companies, (I would guess) that the odds of buying a stock component which overclocks well is close to zero because of this practice.

CPUs and motherboards are likely to be most affected.

Is my model correct ?

It is somewhat correct. They actually use CPUs that don't bin all that well in the pre-built systems (well apart from those that bin great in very expensive systems, 8-Pack etc). Having been binned, they shouldn't sell them independently and as new. As long as they are advertised as "overclocked to X.XGHz" and can perform at that speed, then if someone really doesn't fancy pressing a few buttons inside the BIOS, they get a little overclock done for them. For someone willing to overclock themselves, then as Tamzzy said: go with random. And Retail version, not OEM, if you want to be absolutely sure.
 
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Not all cpu's are overclockable either so don't get caught up buying a incorrect combination if you are intending to overclock. Some require a certain combination of cpu and motherboard as well.

All of AMD's Ryzen cpu's will overclock and in most if not all boards (not sure about the A320 boards).

Only Intels K series cpu's (9600k, 9700k, 9900k etc) are able to be overclocked and only in a Z series motherboard (Z370, Z390 etc). Memory speed is also limited in some Intel motherboards.

Like EsaT states above, the glory days of overclocking are long gone and today you are lucky to get a few hundred mhz above the boost clockspeed. I have many fond memories of getting anything up to a 100% overclock out of a Intel cpu and sadly that will most likely never be seen again.
 
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I wasn't even into computing back then. I am talking about socket 775 Pentiums and C2D's which I think was the best overclocking platform ever. My first Core2Duo was a 1.8Ghz E4300 (late 2006) that lived it's life at 3.6Ghz. I also had a 1.6Ghz E2140 (launched mid 2007 although I got hold of mine for £6 on Ebayin 2009 for a E5200 review I did on here) that reached a massive 3.6Ghz as well. My first cpu that passed 4Ghz was a E8500 E0 stepping (2008) that easily did 4.5Ghz.
 
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