Colleague sacked for being Racist

Dolph · 3 Mar 2006 at 12:37

dirtydog said:
No matter how unreasonable his complaint might have been?

If your behaviour breached company standards, then yes, even if you believe the complaint to be unreasonable.

Most companies have fairly strict guidelines as to what is and isn't inappropriate behaviour in the workplace. Most companies are also willing to not enforce them in a draconain fashion provided no-one is being offended. If you do offend someone and they complain (and repeated racist or sexist comments will do that) then the company will investigate, and compare your behaviour against their code of conduct.

There is no reason why racist or sexist comments (or indeed pretty much any other -ist or potentially abusive/offensive comment) should be made at work.

Given that the person in question was given a warning and carried on with unacceptable behaviour, termination would seem entirely appropriate to me. (The situation would change if they went straight for a gross misconduct termination rather than warning first)

Visage · 3 Mar 2006 at 12:41

dirtydog said:
No matter how unreasonable his complaint might have been?

Lets say for arguments sake that the original warning was TOTALLY unreasonable.

What does it say about the sacked employee that, despite being warned, he did it again?

dirtydog · 3 Mar 2006 at 12:42

Dolph said:
There is no reason why racist or sexist comments (or indeed pretty much any other -ist or potentially abusive/offensive comment) should be made at work.

What if someone was warned for using the word 'blackboard' or the term 'nitty gritty' for example?

dirtydog · 3 Mar 2006 at 12:43

Visage said:
Lets say for arguments sake that the original warning was TOTALLY unreasonable.

What does it say about the sacked employee that, despite being warned, he did it again?

Without knowing what he said, it's impossible to judge really. He might have said something that most people would find innocuous.

Dolph · 3 Mar 2006 at 12:46

dirtydog said:
What if someone was warned for using the word 'blackboard' or the term 'nitty gritty' for example?

Then you don't use that language in work again. It's not difficult to play by company rules.

Going to work is not a right, it's a mutual contract between yourself and your employer. In exchange for (to a large extent) dictating your behaviour while being on the company payroll, the company gives you a share of their income in your wages.

If you can't deal with the terms of the agreement (whatever that is) or the way they expect you to behave, then change jobs.

I have a pretty big list of things I can't do or say while on the company payroll if I want to keep my job, so I don't say them. It's not difficult.

I'd also be interested to see you cite a case where the above has ever happened.....

dirtydog · 3 Mar 2006 at 12:48

The police have been issued with a whole raft of words and terms they are not allowed to use for fear of being construed as racist, and blackboard & nitty gritty are among them.

Walliam · 3 Mar 2006 at 12:50

Luke15 said:
Come again? lol.

Well, it's a bit OT, but what I'm trying to say is... well... does that include girls?

Sittin on the block mit my ting out possibly sucking on my dad ya'll.... cos I'm a grandad

Rich_L · 3 Mar 2006 at 12:54

dirtydog said:
The police have been issued with a whole raft of words and terms they are not allowed to use for fear of being construed as racist, and blackboard & nitty gritty are among them.

The 'guidelines' in question were the ones issued by the Greater Manchester Police in 2000 here:

http://tinyurl.com/zgvsj

Which unsurprisingly make no mention of either nittygritty or blackboard...I have vague recollections of nittygritty and blackboard coming up every now and then but I can't find any news articles about it being linked to the police.

Luke15 · 3 Mar 2006 at 12:56

Walliam said:
Well, it's a bit OT, but what I'm trying to say is... well... does that include girls?

Sittin on the block mit my ting out possibly sucking on my dad ya'll.... cos I'm a grandad

Please, i dont understand. I said on the previous page, that that was my ethnicity

Also typing like that makes you seem like a plank.

Ironic Namesake · 3 Mar 2006 at 12:57

Lucky we don't get sacked for that here.

We're racist to each other all day long (as a joke, of course)

dirtydog · 3 Mar 2006 at 13:00

Rich_L said:
The 'guidelines' in question were the ones issued by the Greater Manchester Police in 2000 here:

http://tinyurl.com/zgvsj

Which unsurprisingly make no mention of either nittygritty or blackboard...I have vague recollections of nittygritty and blackboard coming up every now and then but I can't find any news articles about it being linked to the police.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1988681.stm

I remember reading an article in the Mail which had a list of the forbidden words and terms - there were perhaps 15-20 as I recall. IIRC they had a photo of the document.

Visage · 3 Mar 2006 at 13:03

dirtydog said:
Without knowing what he said, it's impossible to judge really. He might have said something that most people would find innocuous.

OK, let me give you more concrete example.

Competitors arent allowed to be mentioned on the forums.

If i disagreed with that rule, would that justify me breaking it? No.

If i broke that rule by accident, was warned about it, should i be allowed to break it again? No.

If i mentioned a company that i didnt know was a competitor, and was told 'Dont mention XXX - they;re a competitor', and then continued to mention them, would that be a bannable offence? Yes.

The company makes the rules, the employees are expected to follow them.

If the rules are ambiguous or contentious, as they seem to be in this case, then by all means warn people who transgress, as they may not be aware of where the line is. But once they DO know, its not unreasonable to sack them for it.

dirtydog · 3 Mar 2006 at 13:05

Visage, I take your point, BUT.. if what this person said was totally innocuous then it might have been difficult for him to avoid accidentally saying it, agreed?

Visage · 3 Mar 2006 at 13:06

Rich_L said:
The 'guidelines' in question were the ones issued by the Greater Manchester Police in 2000 here:

http://tinyurl.com/zgvsj

Which unsurprisingly make no mention of either nittygritty or blackboard...I have vague recollections of nittygritty and blackboard coming up every now and then but I can't find any news articles about it being linked to the police.

IIRC Nitty gritty came up about 12 months ago with some 'OMG its PC gone mad' headline, that later turned out to have no basis in fact whatsoever.

In fact the training company that suggested this ban ('Aldridge Training Solutions' IIRC), dont actually exist.

Visage · 3 Mar 2006 at 13:07

dirtydog said:
Visage, I take your point, BUT.. if what this person said was totally innocuous then it might have been difficult for him to avoid accidentally saying it, agreed?

Of course. If you dont know somethiongs offensive it would be ridiculous to sack someone for it.

But once they'd been informed that they shouldnt do it then its reasonable to expect them to abide by that.

callmeBadger · 3 Mar 2006 at 13:13

dirtydog said:
Visage, I take your point, BUT.. if what this person said was totally innocuous then it might have been difficult for him to avoid accidentally saying it, agreed?

thats what the first warning was for.

dirtydog · 3 Mar 2006 at 13:21

callmeBadger said:
thats what the first warning was for.

Yes but if it was VERY innocuous then he might have theoretically accidentally said it even after the first warning. Just a poor example of the top of my head, if you were told never to say "good morning" then it's the sort of thing you might accidentally say. For all we know, the 'racist' thing he said is equally innocuous.

Visage · 3 Mar 2006 at 13:23

dirtydog said:
Yes but if it was VERY innocuous then he might have theoretically accidentally said it even after the first warning. Just a poor example of the top of my head, if you were told never to say "good morning" then it's the sort of thing you might accidentally say. For all we know, the 'racist' thing he said is equally innocuous.

But it was clearly 'un-innocuous' enough to warrant an emailed apology.....

5ingh · 3 Mar 2006 at 13:23

racist or not, the guy has just had enough of whats being said to him and complained about it - whats the problem?

dirtydog · 3 Mar 2006 at 13:26

Visage said:
But it was clearly 'un-innocuous' enough to warrant an emailed apology.....

Sometimes you will apologise for offending someone, even though you yourself thought what you said was fine and you never meant to offend them.

FWIW I am quite sure what he said most probably was racist, I am just playing devil's advocate and saying that it conceivably might have been innocent.