Computer Science Degree - Worth it?

Soldato
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I'd stay clear of a pure CS course without Alevel maths, personally if I where in that situation I'd opt for a 4 year degree with a foundation year.

With respect to lesser well known universities / obscure "IT" type courses - I'd be very careful, I've only come accross one person who I would call capable after taking this route - and to be honest that's more because he has a massive interest in technology.

Although university and course choice are very important, it's no substitute for a real desire to learn more about the subject. Good luck with whatever you choose
 

Ev0

Ev0

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If you just want to go into a support role, 1st, 2nd, 3rd line etc then I wouldn't bother personally, you'll probably get just as far without a degree and have 3 or 4 years jump on than if you had done one :)

But for many other computing careers then I reckon it's worth doing.

DB admin stuff can be very boring but can also be pretty challanging at the same time. Money can be ok as well, I know some Oracle DB admin posts that have paid pretty well in the past.
 
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Skimmed the thread but I'm afraid ANY CS course worth it's salt will require a good knowledge in Maths as you'll be missing some of the things that separate CS from courses that just teach you flash and whatnot

As for the job, I've been a programmer in the mobile industry since I've left uni with a CS degree.
 
Caporegime
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Right, firstly before everyone says how I 'should do what I am interested in', I am interested in and have been interested in computers for some while now (obviously, or I wouldn't be here!). Mainly web design and development however. I briefly looked into these as a degree choice however after a few people telling me that this is not a good career to go into due to the high competition and low pay I have decided to choose otherwise.

I am wondering if anyone here could advise me on whether computer science is a good degree or not to take if I'm mainly looking for something that will open many doors (don't want something too specific that will really limit my career path). Also, anyone that has done a computer science degree, what sort of job have you now got as a result? Sorry for all the questions but i'm just trying to find out at this stage whether or not I should maybe change my plans and study something else broadly related to computers. :p

I always told myself that I didn't want to sit at a desk all day, that I want to be active and obviously.. earn good money however I can't see this being the case in computing! :D

Anyway.. Due to me not having a maths A level, I am quite restricted to the universities that I can attend and at the moment I am looking at Nottingham, East Anglia, Hull, Leicester and Coventry - has anyone attended these universities either to do a different course or to do something computing based and were they a good choice? I am looking for a university preferably that is quite modern (obviously don't want to be using old old tech!) however I know that being picky about the tech isn't a good starting point when choosing a uni :D

So yeah.. in a nutshell, I am wondering if anyone can recommend any good courses/universities and let me know their views on both a CS course in general and post university career prospects.

EDIT: I have been told that database management and such is a good job with good pay however is quite boring! Anyone know anything about this? lol Infact, my computing tutor advised this!

Cheers!


From reading this it seems that you don't actually know what computer science is and that you don't have the required mathematical background. Computer Science is the theoretical research in the algorithmic computation of information. It is field of Mathematics. And it is a Science, not a vocational subject nor an engineering degree. At its heart are questions about what does it mean to compute, what problems are computable, unsolvable or intractable. What is the complexity of algorithms and what optimal algorithms exist. How can processors and computing systems be designed to be faster or more efficient. I attended a Computer Science seminar today, the whole seminar used a giant wooden computer with cogs, wires, etc. The week before I attended a seminar of the computational abilities of Slime Mould bacteria and their ability to solve NP-hard problems in near-constant time due to massive parallelism. I say this just to highlight the fact that Computer Science does not aim to make you a good computer user, or software developer, web designer. Although you may become proficient along the way. To many computer scientists pen and paper is all they ever need. My favourite lectures didn't know how to use powerpoint and gave lectures with chalk and black board.

A good Computer Science degree is an excellent degree that is very sought after. a poor computer science degree has little merit.
From your post I would suggest not to do Computer Science but a more vocational computer related subject that interests you. IF you are interested in web design then study web design. Computer Science wont cover this.
 
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AJK

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Hi Nitrojan,

I think you need to carefully review the modules involved with Computer Science (and related degrees, eg. Computing, Computer Programming, etc.) at the Universities you're interested in, and ensure that the course will suit your skills.

In my opinion, you will find a "pure" CS degree very difficult without a good grounding in Maths (GCSE A grade at least), and without the A-Level you will be missing vital background learning which other students on your course will have done.

(A foundation year may address this issue, but do your research about what this will involve, and how much you will need to learn in the year. If you're going to be covering two years worth of A-Level Maths in one year, that's going to be quite hardcore. Aside from anything else you will be committing to an extra 12 months at University - actually quite a big thing.)

Related degrees such as Computing or Computer Programming might suit your situation better, as they place less emphasis on mathematical concepts such as complexity and algorithm/data structure design, and more on practical (vocational?) elements such as project-based programming coursework.

I took Computer Science at Warwick University between 2003-2007 (3 year BSc with gap). Warwick require Maths A-Level, so maybe this isn't the best example, but the pure CS course I did could NOT have been done without it - about half of the modules you do throughout the course require mathematical techniques, and if you have to catch up on the A-Level learning you'd find yourself behind. I actually did Double Maths at A-Level, and found this to be an advantage as I'd already studied some of the advanced concepts we covered early on in my first year.

In terms of career prospects, these can actually depend more on the University you attend than the course you study. A degree from a "good" Uni (totally subjective here even among employers - ask around) will open more doors than a degree from a "bad" one, regardless of what that subject is. From your list, I've only really looked into Nottingham, but I understand that it's quite well regarded for computer-related courses.

My experience at Warwick was that if you studied a Maths or Computing based degree, you were "encouraged" to apply to a City bank - in hindsight not such a good choice after all, though the salaries at the time were excellent (think £35k+ straight after graduating!) This won't apply to all Unis though; most will have their own "preferred" employment partners presenting at freshers and careers fairs, trying to suck you in......

As for me, I am currently working as Web Developer at the Royal Shakespeare Company. It's not quite £35k, but I don't have to wear a suit, and I get a lot more responsibility than a cubicle-based City graduate. All depends on your personality, and how you feel as you approach your final year of Uni - I can pretty much guarantee you'll feel different then than you do now, everybody does.

OK, my gf has just told me off for typing such a long message and not making her dinner (!!!) so I'll finish up now. Hope some of that might have been useful to you :)

Alex

EDIT: I have been told that database management and such is a good job with good pay however is quite boring! Anyone know anything about this? lol Infact, my computing tutor advised this!

It can be - depends on where you work! (Charities vs. multi-nationals again!) As to whether it's boring or not... tbh, for me databases are a means to an end. If you're the kind of person who enjoys the concepts of relational data management, data integrity, etc... well then it might be perfect for you! ;)
 
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What area of maths is important? I'm going on a similar course (it wanted ABB, but only GCSE B at maths), but havent done maths for years (I did it literally like 4yrs ago and only got a grade b).


:(
 

AJK

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What area of maths is important? I'm going on a similar course (it wanted ABB, but only GCSE B at maths), but havent done maths for years (I did it literally like 4yrs ago and only got a grade b).

Pure is the most important, but depending on which Uni you attend you may well be offered additional (optional?) modules based around Statistics.
 
Soldato
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Did Comp Sci myself and most of my good mates at uni went on to work in fields which have nothing to do with Computing.

:confused: why would people do a CS course if they have no intention of actually going into a computing career??

HijacK ~ I left highschool at year 10, did a btec level 2 in computing along with english/maths instead of year 11, i was apparently allowed to do this because i was in the top sets for everything, expecting As at gcse...

anyway I continued on to level 3 for another two years... (up until last june) only they didn't offer a level 3/4 maths course (I passed the level3 test when I first joined... but still had to do level 2, c grade at gcse... really, really easy)

I've always been a fan of computing; i started building pcs and learning programming languages at 11... so i would assume a university would acknowledge this? or is it a case of just rejecting me for not doing an A level in maths?

i'm looking to do software dev, would anyone know where i can compare courses and their requirements?
 
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Pure is the most important, but depending on which Uni you attend you may well be offered additional (optional?) modules based around Statistics.

When you say pure...... :o



Sorry, it's just I havent done maths for so long. I think some revision could be in order :/
 
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Personally I think some people are still peddling the ideals of the older CS courses out there. CS has evolved as a subject. Partially because of ex-polys, partly because that's what it has had to do as a subject as computing has become more commercial.

Originally, computer science was indeed effectively a branch of mathematics, and at its very core it of course still is, we cant compute if we cant count! However, even the most gothic universities are rapidly realising that people want their CS degree to mean that investment banks want to employ them afterwards.

Also with the advent of high level languages and their rapid progression, gone are the days when a CS degree meant sitting and coding in MC. What in fact has happened is that CS degrees have evolved so that they touch on the basics that used to be the degree as a whole (fundamentals such as maths; logic, MC, electrical engineering etc.) but also promote team work and usage of higher level language, concepts and programs.

Having recently looked at Cambridges syllabus for example, it is comparable to that of Manchester, both of which are more low level but comparable to what I did at Stafford 5 odd years ago!

Maths is a very important part of the computer scientists skill set, it is the very essence of what they do, however, it is now entirely feasible for somebody with little actual grasp of what we term pure maths, to do what the course sets out and then go on to build on this and become a modern computer scientist.

If I can give an example of this evolution, up until 3 years ago the CS degree at Manchester used Z to teach formal logic, they have since dropped this and replaced it with a Prolog based course. Hardly ground-breaking stuff, but 10-15 years ago something like Z would have been classed as an inevitable learning outcome for a CS student, now even the best courses are starting to realise skills such as these are classed as non-essential and subsidiary for the modern CS student.
 
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Caporegime
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I'd stay clear of a pure CS course without Alevel maths, personally if I where in that situation I'd opt for a 4 year degree with a foundation year.

^^^ this tbh.....

Go to a proper uni* and do a decent CS course and it will be worth it.

Attending some half-baked course at some second rate ex-poly might well end up with you working on a helpdesk upon graduation which as someone else has pointed out on this thread is something you can easily do anyway without the need for a degree.

(*having said that out of the ones you've listed Nottingham is usually well regarded - don't know about the CS course specifically though)
 
Soldato
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^^^ this tbh.....

Go to a proper uni* and do a decent CS course and it will be worth it.

Attending some half-baked course at some second rate ex-poly might well end up with you working on a helpdesk upon graduation which as someone else has pointed out on this thread is something you can easily do anyway without the need for a degree.

(*having said that out of the ones you've listed Nottingham is usually well regarded - don't know about the CS course specifically though)

And to counter this argument, I did a CS course at an ex-poly, learned a lot, got a high first, went on to get a scholarship to do an MSc at manchester, which in turn led to a NERC funded PhD.

Stafford gave me, somebody who messed up his A-Levels, the chance to prove myself and get into academia as I had always wanted (but thought I had lost the chance to).

Many people who did the CS course with me at Stafford went on to good jobs with Cisco, MS, Oracle, HP, IBM etc.
 
Caporegime
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Personally I think some people are still peddling the ideals of the older CS courses out there. CS has evolved as a subject. Partially because of ex-polys, partly because that's what it has had to do as a subject as computing has become more commercial.

Originally, computer science was indeed effectively a branch of mathematics, and at its very core it of course still is, we cant computer if we cant count! However, even the most gothic universities are rapidly realising that people want their CS degree to mean that investment banks want to employ them afterwards.

Indeed, CS students want degrees that are going to get them jobs afterwards, ie one that teaches things like software development, web development, database design and networking, along with the more fundamental stuff like systems architecture, I bet most students couldn't care less about the maths other than the binary/hex representation.
 
Soldato
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And to counter this argument, I did a CS course at an ex-poly, learned a lot, got a high first, went on to get a scholarship to do an MSc at manchester, which in turn led to a NERC funded PhD.

Stafford gave me, somebody who messed up his A-Levels, the chance to prove myself and get into academia as I had always wanted (but thought I had lost the chance to).

Many people who did the CS course with me at Stafford went on to good jobs with Cisco, MS, Oracle, HP, IBM etc.

Everyone puts down places and courses like CS without maths requirement and 'not real unis', unless they've been on them, because they think that where they went is better than everywhere else.

The only places I class this to be properly true are Oxford and Cambridge, they are the only real unis in my book...but that's another thread.

I'm at Bournemouth Uni (prev a poly) and find the course is well catered to be able to put me out into the sort of job I'm after...obviously I won't find out fully till I leave and get a job, but I've seen some much worse courses than mine, yet mine will still get put down as it's not CS with maths requirement, it's simply 'C'...although they've now relabled it to 'Software Systems' even if your focus on the course is hardware/networks. :/

EDIT:

Indeed, CS students want degrees that are going to get them jobs afterwards, ie one that teaches things like software development, web development, database design and networking, along with the more fundamental stuff like systems architecture, I bet most students couldn't care less about the maths other than the binary/hex representation.

We cover all that and went quite in depth into binary, hex, oct etc. along with doing loads of maths with them and also loads of architecture studying too... :)
 
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