congestion charge... That will be £20 pls!

[v0n]

why does a single person need a people carrier or a jeep to get to work in central london?

wouldnt a 1 to 1.4litre small hatchback be more suited to the job?

Perhaps because that's the car they have, it's the car they take kids to school with and their dogs for walk to Richmond Park and their scuba diving equipment to sea side on weekends and they just don't feel like buying another car just to get to work hippy style.

 

[Sputnik II]

wouldnt a 1 to 1.4litre small hatchback be more suited to the job?

Personally I think people should be able to drive what car they like and can afford. As for pollution, Cars emissions are lower now than ever and they are checked for emission levels at the MOT. Why should people have to pay £20 more because of the type of vehicle? Bearing in mind that the cost of fuel is around about 80% tax and their gas guzzler uses lots of it, So In effect they are already paying a gas guzzler tax.

 

[Tesla]

If you think Public Transport in London is bad, come to Bristol.

London is pretty much perfection compared to our public transport.

 

[Overlag]

If you think Public Transport in London is bad, come to Bristol.

London is pretty much perfection compared to our public transport.

exactly

it may be overloaded, but at least its THERE.... unlike other towns/cities

 

[divine`]

why does a single person need a people carrier or a jeep to get to work in central london?

wouldnt a 1 to 1.4litre small hatchback be more suited to the job?

So what you are saying is no one should be allowed to drive anything other than small engined hatchbacks around?

Good plan, make this man Transport Minister!

 

[Overlag]

So what you are saying is no one should be allowed to drive anything other than small engined hatchbacks around?

Good plan, make this man Transport Minister!

since when did i say that???

why does someone (1 person) need a jeep or people carrier to drive through central london?

thats what i said.

 

[divine`]

since when did i say that???

why does someone (1 person) need a jeep or people carrier to drive through central london?

thats what i said.

Using that argument though, why does one person need a large executive saloon, why does one person need a high powered sports car etc. etc.

They all take the same amount of room don't they? It's not like a LR Disco takes up 6 times more room than say a BMW 5 series, so if you want to get rid of cars like that in exchange for small hatchbacks surely you would apply the same to any car bigger than a small hatchback?

 

[Freefaller]

London public transport is a joke.

Furthermore Linvingstone point blank ignored the appeals from people about extending the congestion charge zone after sending out a poll / survey to London residents.

The trains are over crowded and overly expensive. They are dirty and not that reliable - it's either too hot, too cold, or there are leaves on the track... The "bendy" busses are pointless and stupid. They should get rid of double decker busses and put more frequent single decker shuttle busses - they would be much much better.

The underground is amazing, but old, over crowded, hot and very very miserable way of travelling.

If I go into London I go by motorbike if I can, or after the CC hours. I do use the train, but I tend to walk as it's so much nicer than being crammed like a sardine.

 

[Overlag]

Using that argument though, why does one person need a large executive saloon, why does one person need a high powered sports car etc. etc.

They all take the same amount of room don't they? It's not like a LR Disco takes up 6 times more room than say a BMW 5 series, so if you want to get rid of cars like that in exchange for small hatchbacks surely you would apply the same to any car bigger than a small hatchback?

my point is you dont need a big powerful car for a simple city drive to work, as you will be in traffic most the time anyway. so yes, you could include saloon cars in that. but then most saloon cars are under 2litres..... cant say that for a SUV?

 

[JUMPURS]

Perhaps because that's the car they have, it's the car they take kids to school with and their dogs for walk to Richmond Park and their scuba diving equipment to sea side on weekends and they just don't feel like buying another car just to get to work hippy style.

Just a few things in general, i neither live in London or ever want to so i dont really care about the congestion charges.
Though i do hate people who think they need an MPV because they have kids! especially when they have a whole 1 or 2 kids! its a joke! When i was growing up mum, dad, bro and i used a Metro quite happily so not really an excuse.
Although my GF, who is Texan, her folks both have masive Pickups yet i say that lol But MPV's just irritate me with these stupid mums who park across all the lanes to drop off their wee sprog whilst some of us are trying to get to work!
People should drive cars they can afford. Not just afford to buy but to run, which means they pay more road tax even more congestion charges. They can't afford it, dont drive it, simple.

Also people say the bendy busses use more polutants. TBH its a bit of a mout point no? Surely it should be measured in CO2 emissions per person? if they cause 1% more CO2 emtions yet carry 10% more people then that is surely good? Also if 1 of those buses means they took 2 Double deckers off the road, then that too is an improvement for the environment.
i don't know the CO2 per person on the bendy buses etc so it might not be the case, but i feel statistics/figures are useless without a context and the above is the context. If its More CO2 per person, then yup get shot of them.

Up here in glasgow they have banned cars being parked Idling, this includes Taxi's etc, do they do this in London? its quite a big fine IIRC aswell, this would also cut emitions.
Ken doesnt want to help the environment, he just wants to pay for their Olympic Games, which no doubt the rest of us tax payers who dont care about it going to London, will still have to shell out for

 

[vodkacokebloke]

NO vehicle makes as many poisonous emissions than Livingstone.

 

[Fr0dders]

In that case the first thing to go should be Citaro bendy buses, as they polute more than any other TFL bus due to their weight. Most registered london taxis have Co2 and NOX figures close to any other 4x4 on the road and equally bad mpg...

but you cannot deny that one single bus with 80 people pollutes far lest than those people in say 60 different cars.

 

[Tesco]

Thats great news if it stops these **** MPV/4x4/people carriers/rangerover type crap in London.

 

[cheets64]

Its London you folk can afford it.

 

[v0n]

Also people say the bendy busses use more polutants. TBH its a bit of a mout point no? Surely it should be measured in CO2 emissions per person? if they cause 1% more CO2 emtions yet carry 10% more people then that is surely good? Also if 1 of those buses means they took 2 Double deckers off the road, then that too is an improvement for the environment.
i don't know the CO2 per person on the bendy buses etc so it might not be the case, but i feel statistics/figures are useless without a context and the above is the context. If its More CO2 per person, then yup get shot of them.

That's the way Ken likes to look at it - the CO2 per maximum number of passengers. However, the truth is, whether they run service on old Volvo doubledeckers, bendy buses or Mercedes single decker small shuttles the statistics are the same. 8 people per mile. It's not that everyone saw bendy bus and decided "I wanna ride on that one". There is still as many passengers as there were in first place, or as many as there would be in old Routemaster if they were still running.

Want to know the numbers?

Volvo B7TL Double Decker
release of co2/km total 1,406g
release of NOx/km total 12.3g
average fuel consumption 54.03 l/100km (approx 5.2 mpg)

Mercedes Citaro Artic (so called bendy bus)
release of co2/km total 1585.7
release of NOx/km total 13.61
average fuel consumption 59.82 l/100km (approx 4.7 mpg)

Honda CRV 2,2 CDTi
release of CO2/km total 177 g/km
average fuel consumption 6.69 l/100km (or 42.2 mpg)

but you cannot deny that one single bus with 80 people pollutes far lest than those people in say 60 different cars.

Well actually, we'll never know as all bus figures are always calculated as empty run. And there is never average of 80 people per every km...

 

[GSXRMovistar]

my point is you dont need a big powerful car for a simple city drive to work, as you will be in traffic most the time anyway. so yes, you could include saloon cars in that. but then most saloon cars are under 2litres..... cant say that for a SUV?

As others have already pointed out you don't need a huge car for a simple run to work in the city but you may need it to do other things.

So are you suggesting that everyone who takes their car to work in the city should also buy a second car just for this purpose?

The congestion charge is a joke, it's yet another excuse to hit the public with another form of cash cow tax.

If Ken really did want to get the cars out of London he would need to take the hit and throw huge amounts of money into Public transport, I so how doubt that all money made from the congestion charge goes into this.

 

[siztenboots]

That's the way Ken likes to look at it - the CO2 per maximum number of passengers. However, the truth is, whether they run service on old Volvo doubledeckers, bendy buses or Mercedes single decker small shuttles the statistics are the same. 8 people per mile. It's not that everyone saw bendy bus and decided "I wanna ride on that one". There is still as many passengers as there were in first place, or as many as there would be in old Routemaster if they were still running.

Want to know the numbers?

Volvo B7TL Double Decker
release of co2/km total 1,406g
release of NOx/km total 12.3g
average fuel consumption 54.03 l/100km (approx 5.2 mpg)

Mercedes Citaro Artic (so called bendy bus)
release of co2/km total 1585.7
release of NOx/km total 13.61
average fuel consumption 59.82 l/100km (approx 4.7 mpg)

Honda CRV 2,2 CDTi
release of CO2/km total 177 g/km
average fuel consumption 6.69 l/100km (or 42.2 mpg)



Well actually, we'll never know as all bus figures are always calculated as empty run. And there is never average of 80 people per every km...

Or London could convert over to electric trams, but that just shifts the pollution out of the city to the powerstation. Nuclear powered busses, like Cyclops, aka The Big Bus

 

[fini]

As a student, my main use of the tube is during non-peak hours. During non-peak hours I have to say the tube is easily the best way to get around and IMHO would be pretty perfect if it was not for the fact that I can pretty much chew on the air down there.

I'm not sure how you'd fix the tube's overcrowding issues though - it's not like trains don't come every minute or so already. More stops really isn't neccesary and, if anything, would slow everything down. All I could think of is building second platforms with express tubes (eg on the Northern Line a tube train that goes straight from Waterloo - Euston). The cost of the tube also seems a little high to me - especially if you're only going a few stops - but I'd be fine to pay even double what I am now for a couple of years if major renovations took place.

The busses are great IMHO. For £1 you can be on the bus for over an hour on some journeys - that's one cheap journey. People always say, yes but it was 70p not that long ago, but what's happened in the last couple of years? All the busses now have CCTV which, I think, is a good thing, and all the busses are now pretty new. Go down to the south coast or something and they're running old clunky busses that are really just a joke on wheels. The one bad thing about the busses is that, once in central london, they are sloooooow and the routes are quite confusing so I only use them in the 'burbs.

My major change to the system? In the style of bus lanes, I'd create lanes for key workers and tradesmen only - the kind of people that everyone says it would be impossible for them to not go by car - electricians, plumbers and hospital, police and firemen staff. I realise that most roads don't have room for three lanes (bus, normal and my new one), but you could always merge the bus lane into my new lane on major routes into London.

fini

 

[Overlag]

The busses are great IMHO. For £1 you can be on the bus for over an hour on some journeys - that's one cheap journey. People always say, yes but it was 70p not that long ago, but what's happened in the last couple of years? All the busses now have CCTV which, I think, is a good thing, and all the busses are now pretty new. Go down to the south coast or something and they're running old clunky busses that are really just a joke on wheels. The one bad thing about the busses is that, once in central london, they are sloooooow and the routes are quite confusing so I only use them in the 'burbs..

fini

i remember paying 60 and 40...... then it went upto 70 for no matter how long the journy was... then 1.20 and now 1.50 thats in the space of....oooh 4 years?

sure they have CCTV but they are often in a right state so i dont really think CCTV does anything.... it just records the little chavs doing it..... it doesnt stop them and chuck them off like a conductor would...

but yes, things have improved a lot. and so has the tube. I remember when the tube was a right sorry state of dirt and grime, with terrible rolling stock.

yes some rolling stock is very old (the district line for a start) and yes they seem to have there fair share of problems like the district line has a 5mph max speed above ground due to "soft" rails in this heat

 

[fini]

It's £1 with an oyster card though - which are free (the £3 is refundable).

fini