*** Cyberpunk 2077 ***
- Thread starter Neil79
- Start date
Associate
You do that m8Guess i just wait for this game to go on sale
I very rarely pay full price for a game unless it a game i really want or if am on holiday from work..
I should've got this out of me earlier, but the delays ****** me off.
I'm heavily avoiding spoilers; however, ages ago CDPR said this'll have some storytelling approaches like Witcher, and I've wondered about that (mainly the first two games hopefully - see spoilered), the cyberpunk genre's high-tech, low-lifeness; and choices, etc.
I kinda like how it was done in Morrowind (a rare decent Kotaku article) plus when you have low rep there are minor gameplay changes and NPCs talk negatively towards you e.g. the guards say things like "We're watching you, scum" (they say that to fresh visitors on the main streets of the chief city
, classic). But I always hope I'm not forced to be another variation of Mr/s Perfect, with a silver spoon stuck up their ass and destiny of being crowned savior of the universe; where we're pretty much always the coolest, everything's always written around us and outcomes always go our way, and that = anti-RP freedom; the powertrip of being on a pedestal with trumpets tooting, birds chirping, and NPCs fawning over the glistening spoon and buttcheeks.
(The size and nature of this paragraph are fine.)
For some semblance of verisimilitude at least, I like keeping chunks of thoroughly negative outcomes. I often favor C&C (choices & consequences) via quest design: More examples of branching...but what about...delayed consequences?
I try to decently appreciate; whether spanning a few interactions; across multiple quests, encounters, environmental changes etc; a very early choice to help/smack/other me at the very end which could be 100+ hours or in expansions/sequels; or any of it being altered by other C&C, roguelike elements, save-import or whatnot - gimme 
. I love complex morality, and some goody-two-shoes choices punished (bottom of spoilered). I prefer companions with stronger spines/self-interest, increased deception (in general), leave to return/encounter later, or just **** off - I'll take them over backbone-deficient spoon-worshippers. As for my looks? Or 1st vs 3rd person? 
character customisation ain't "robust" unless there's different effects, beyond empty comments, to my choices of class, sex, race, age, gear quality/type.. I like the little touch in choosing to watch a spar in Fallout 1's BoS base gives a skill upgrade. I enjoy in games such as Age of Decadence, if you refuse/ignore certain quests, NPCs "do" them and you see consequences from other perspectives, and classes have some unique quests and different story perspectives, bits of reactivity (my fav class is Grifter; never saw a class quite like that). I mentioned AoD due to obscurity, recency and multiple ideas - I'm aware OG, weller-known games have similar, including better done, like NPCs shown questing and better interactions; CP77's origin stories remind me of several games' (like BG2, DAO) so I hope CDPR's are alright. I welcome doses of dead ends too, like in Arcanum (another pretty obscure game) when investigating the origins of prominent gnomes' ogre guards (orc + human slaves) choices cause culprits' seeming missteps but they stay ahead and finally cleverly mock us as we're left emptyhanded....brilliant quest IMO, adds a unique bit of depth; Witcher has simpler dead ends I like (easiest one is a dialog-option death, insta-riddled with arrows). Arcanum also has a spell to resurrect NPCs' ghosts for some useful info and funny dialog. Many other examples of notable C&C, and superior ones I can't concisely describe. Overall, I love such design for the sakes of variety, depth, soul, wonder..!! 
(Spoilery for slivers of W2, one W1 side quest + mod. Nutshell: W1 & 2 are more early-mid HBO GoT than W3 is)
W3 declined or stagnated in a few ways, partly due to the storyline not being suited for the vastly larger maps. I'd say W2's story is the most original overall, making me think CDPR are best with... Well, in W1 they were newbs and apparently unsure how to use the books, but were clearly passionate, resulting in the 2nd-best story I'd say; W2 is furthest away; and W3's story brought it closest to the books and lacks originality and consistency (except for the Bloody Baron, which isn't in the books, strengthening my opinion that CDPR are best with their own ideas, or better inspirations, as the books generally go downhill), maybe due to W3's scope and CDPR internal issues. Aside from certain characters, I heavily mentally focus on side quests, the area W3 generally improved the most IMO. A good chunk of the writing in quests, characters, lore are arguably around the best of the likes of Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate 2 & co, particularly the Baron and Hearts of Stone. W3 has more quests than, say, Skyrim or New Vegas, and W3's quality of quest C&C is generally between those two games, with NV being the best generally there.
On paper I don't care about story length; I'm hoping the reduced length here more-or-less means that if they were to go back and re-do W3's story from scratch and MiB memory-wipes, it'd perhaps be shorter too. Regardless, I've no doubt CDPR are capable of finding the right open-world middle-ground or new things, but we'll see. BTW, I hope CDPR study W3 mods anyway (I use them to e.g. change/remove item levels, fix itemisation (remove all useless items, better performing & looking items/abilities (I favor significant gift/curse +/- including story aspects whenever possible)), and editing out the Ubisoft-esque stuff introduced in W3 that I'd prefer ditched). And last but not least, I want some ambiguous, subversive (etc), non-silver-spoon-stuck-up-the-ass design
. To clarify: I like a subjective-as-hell mix of it all, including instances of variously plain morality, simple outcomes, etc. Cyberpunk games I've played tend to nail the high-tech but often really lack the low-lifeness etc, so I hope CDPR recognise that and, like, non-cringe-ily fit in more of that stuff that I want...yup.
~
The cynical person in me says this game will increase accessibility and streamlining and that I should always wait for price drops, but my crystal ball shows that mofo might slip on a banana skin and fall head-first into my mental basement at release time
I'm heavily avoiding spoilers; however, ages ago CDPR said this'll have some storytelling approaches like Witcher, and I've wondered about that (mainly the first two games hopefully - see spoilered), the cyberpunk genre's high-tech, low-lifeness; and choices, etc.
I kinda like how it was done in Morrowind (a rare decent Kotaku article) plus when you have low rep there are minor gameplay changes and NPCs talk negatively towards you e.g. the guards say things like "We're watching you, scum" (they say that to fresh visitors on the main streets of the chief city
, classic). But I always hope I'm not forced to be another variation of Mr/s Perfect, with a silver spoon stuck up their ass and destiny of being crowned savior of the universe; where we're pretty much always the coolest, everything's always written around us and outcomes always go our way, and that = anti-RP freedom; the powertrip of being on a pedestal with trumpets tooting, birds chirping, and NPCs fawning over the glistening spoon and buttcheeks.(The size and nature of this paragraph are fine.)
For some semblance of verisimilitude at least, I like keeping chunks of thoroughly negative outcomes. I often favor C&C (choices & consequences) via quest design: More examples of branching...but what about...delayed consequences?
I try to decently appreciate; whether spanning a few interactions; across multiple quests, encounters, environmental changes etc; a very early choice to help/smack/other me at the very end which could be 100+ hours or in expansions/sequels; or any of it being altered by other C&C, roguelike elements, save-import or whatnot - gimme . I love complex morality, and some goody-two-shoes choices punished (bottom of spoilered). I prefer companions with stronger spines/self-interest, increased deception (in general), leave to return/encounter later, or just **** off - I'll take them over backbone-deficient spoon-worshippers. As for my looks? Or 1st vs 3rd person? character customisation ain't "robust" unless there's different effects, beyond empty comments, to my choices of class, sex, race, age, gear quality/type.. I like the little touch in choosing to watch a spar in Fallout 1's BoS base gives a skill upgrade. I enjoy in games such as Age of Decadence, if you refuse/ignore certain quests, NPCs "do" them and you see consequences from other perspectives, and classes have some unique quests and different story perspectives, bits of reactivity (my fav class is Grifter; never saw a class quite like that). I mentioned AoD due to obscurity, recency and multiple ideas - I'm aware OG, weller-known games have similar, including better done, like NPCs shown questing and better interactions; CP77's origin stories remind me of several games' (like BG2, DAO) so I hope CDPR's are alright. I welcome doses of dead ends too, like in Arcanum (another pretty obscure game) when investigating the origins of prominent gnomes' ogre guards (orc + human slaves) choices cause culprits' seeming missteps but they stay ahead and finally cleverly mock us as we're left emptyhanded....brilliant quest IMO, adds a unique bit of depth; Witcher has simpler dead ends I like (easiest one is a dialog-option death, insta-riddled with arrows). Arcanum also has a spell to resurrect NPCs' ghosts for some useful info and funny dialog. Many other examples of notable C&C, and superior ones I can't concisely describe. Overall, I love such design for the sakes of variety, depth, soul, wonder..!! (Spoilery for slivers of W2, one W1 side quest + mod. Nutshell: W1 & 2 are more early-mid HBO GoT than W3 is)
I played W1 before the GoT show started, and W2 when the show was hitting its stride. While the games have fantastical elements, adventure and comedy, they retain a fairly grounded, realist spirit that I like/d about GoT. An example is in W2 where in one aspect of the storyline a fellow witcher (voiced by the same dude who played Shagga (YT vid)) is an antagonist and it's not cheaply "good vs bad witcher", and there's a choice and a Biowarian (talkin like an anthropologist n ****) save-import to W3. The best of W2, IMO, is in the branching paths themselves, the two chapter twos and other changes, and several characters mainly there. Randomly I recall a moment where a sorceress giggles at Geralt's puny magic, which I thought was a nice touch (scorcery is largely in cutscenes, tho we do actually deal with them at times, with backup). Oh, and on shagga/shagging...witcher lore says their sex bits literally make skin tingle, and it's joked about like in the cruder romances of W1. There's just this mix of ambiguity, borderline parody at times etc that I find refreshing, especially W1, which I played during a drought of like-minded games.
A less spoilery instance (this W1 mod) is in a side quest where there's an old cultist lair with a portal guarded by a monster (AKA the kidnapped blacksmith's son), and we A) kill monster to save village but blacksmith remains depressed, B) kill an arguably innocent and funny old lady (ex-cultist; her humor almost threw me off), or C) ignore lair = monsters pour out of the portal and slaughter everyone in the area in the last W1-style painted slide. I much prefer such over usual fisher-price choices. W1 & 2 are generally closer to the design of that mod - W3 is comparatively lighthearted in multiple areas from certain series characters to world design/atmosphere.
Also, Witcher has notable delayed consequences, especially the 1st game. I call it "threading" where you'll, fake example: make a choice in the prolog and alter some things there, and then in Ch1 you'll come across someone who wants to kill you or their talking ghost, and then after you've forgotten in Ch7 there'll be a woman offering a quest with a reward of romance or betrayal, again based on your prolog choice, and scattered bits of dialog & clues here and there - W3's "threading" is decent in spots considering its very different scope. A spoilery side-quest example of goody-two-shoes choices punished: the choice whether to accept an elf woman's plea of innocence who's about to be lynched by racist guards, who turn out to be exactly right about her (simple) treachery. Another example has a guy apparently in need of help to clear monsters from his alleged family tomb. Those two quests are in W1 & 2 irrespectively, and W3 has two quests inspired by them, and I'll be on the lookout for that and more in '77
A less spoilery instance (this W1 mod) is in a side quest where there's an old cultist lair with a portal guarded by a monster (AKA the kidnapped blacksmith's son), and we A) kill monster to save village but blacksmith remains depressed, B) kill an arguably innocent and funny old lady (ex-cultist; her humor almost threw me off), or C) ignore lair = monsters pour out of the portal and slaughter everyone in the area in the last W1-style painted slide. I much prefer such over usual fisher-price choices. W1 & 2 are generally closer to the design of that mod - W3 is comparatively lighthearted in multiple areas from certain series characters to world design/atmosphere.
Also, Witcher has notable delayed consequences, especially the 1st game. I call it "threading" where you'll, fake example: make a choice in the prolog and alter some things there, and then in Ch1 you'll come across someone who wants to kill you or their talking ghost, and then after you've forgotten in Ch7 there'll be a woman offering a quest with a reward of romance or betrayal, again based on your prolog choice, and scattered bits of dialog & clues here and there - W3's "threading" is decent in spots considering its very different scope. A spoilery side-quest example of goody-two-shoes choices punished: the choice whether to accept an elf woman's plea of innocence who's about to be lynched by racist guards, who turn out to be exactly right about her (simple) treachery. Another example has a guy apparently in need of help to clear monsters from his alleged family tomb. Those two quests are in W1 & 2 irrespectively, and W3 has two quests inspired by them, and I'll be on the lookout for that and more in '77
W3 declined or stagnated in a few ways, partly due to the storyline not being suited for the vastly larger maps. I'd say W2's story is the most original overall, making me think CDPR are best with... Well, in W1 they were newbs and apparently unsure how to use the books, but were clearly passionate, resulting in the 2nd-best story I'd say; W2 is furthest away; and W3's story brought it closest to the books and lacks originality and consistency (except for the Bloody Baron, which isn't in the books, strengthening my opinion that CDPR are best with their own ideas, or better inspirations, as the books generally go downhill), maybe due to W3's scope and CDPR internal issues. Aside from certain characters, I heavily mentally focus on side quests, the area W3 generally improved the most IMO. A good chunk of the writing in quests, characters, lore are arguably around the best of the likes of Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate 2 & co, particularly the Baron and Hearts of Stone. W3 has more quests than, say, Skyrim or New Vegas, and W3's quality of quest C&C is generally between those two games, with NV being the best generally there.
On paper I don't care about story length; I'm hoping the reduced length here more-or-less means that if they were to go back and re-do W3's story from scratch and MiB memory-wipes, it'd perhaps be shorter too. Regardless, I've no doubt CDPR are capable of finding the right open-world middle-ground or new things, but we'll see. BTW, I hope CDPR study W3 mods anyway (I use them to e.g. change/remove item levels, fix itemisation (remove all useless items, better performing & looking items/abilities (I favor significant gift/curse +/- including story aspects whenever possible)), and editing out the Ubisoft-esque stuff introduced in W3 that I'd prefer ditched). And last but not least, I want some ambiguous, subversive (etc), non-silver-spoon-stuck-up-the-ass design
. To clarify: I like a subjective-as-hell mix of it all, including instances of variously plain morality, simple outcomes, etc. Cyberpunk games I've played tend to nail the high-tech but often really lack the low-lifeness etc, so I hope CDPR recognise that and, like, non-cringe-ily fit in more of that stuff that I want...yup.~
The cynical person in me says this game will increase accessibility and streamlining and that I should always wait for price drops, but my crystal ball shows that mofo might slip on a banana skin and fall head-first into my mental basement at release time
This from Shroud is why some streamers are really annoying...
I mean, if you dont really want to play the game Shroud, if its not your type of thing, then just dont play it? Surely thats really simple logic. Dont play it or feel obliged to play it because Subs/Money, just dont play it. Life is literally too short and nobody should do anything that they dont want to do, he should stop fretting about not streaming it if every other big streamer is streaming it and just focus on streaming the stuff he wants to stream.
I mean, if you dont really want to play the game Shroud, if its not your type of thing, then just dont play it? Surely thats really simple logic. Dont play it or feel obliged to play it because Subs/Money, just dont play it. Life is literally too short and nobody should do anything that they dont want to do, he should stop fretting about not streaming it if every other big streamer is streaming it and just focus on streaming the stuff he wants to stream.
Permabanned
Man of Honour
It's all about exploring the crevices of the city. The density is huge compared to other games like Witcher 3/GTA5 etc. There's things to explore everywhere and from what reviewers have said form their 16hrs with the game, the map won't handhold you the next mission either, it's just a waypoint of interest and it's up to you to go forth and explore and make your own pathway.
To me all these details and map density is more appealing than a massive open map with everything of interest clearly labelled on a map and you simply follow point to point collecting or doing stuff which is why I took a year+ to complete GTA5 as I often got bored of following the map so had to take breaks off the game for weeks on end before getting back into it.
To me all these details and map density is more appealing than a massive open map with everything of interest clearly labelled on a map and you simply follow point to point collecting or doing stuff which is why I took a year+ to complete GTA5 as I often got bored of following the map so had to take breaks off the game for weeks on end before getting back into it.
Soldato
Shroud never said it wasn't his type of game. At the end of the day it's a single player game that will have an ending. There's no reason I can personally think of why anyone will be playing it after a month or so with exception of people who put in a few hours a week here and there. Some people look at this game like it's the next coming of the messiah.
Playing any single player game beyond a month for 8+ hours a day will get boring, no matter how good it is.
Man of Honour
Why do you think people would (should?) be done with it after only a month? There are a handful of life paths you choose each play through and each has its own story and no doubt they cross paths at some point. We already know the Nomad lifepath is at least 175 hours if exploring is included and side quests. Nobody can complete a game of that sort of length from one path in a month let alone all the lifepaths along with multiple directions each path can sway depending on how you do missions, talk to certain people etc - Unless those players have no job and no commitments anywhere else.
You miss my point, my point is why be bothered whether its finished with in a month or a week or 5 months. His words suggested that he would be obliged to play it longer than a month if he hasnt completed by then and thats why he hopes its over in a month (because he doesnt want to HAVE to play it longer than that) , and thats my point, he should play the game (any game) for as long as he finds it fun and once its no longer appealing, stop playing it, not feel obliged to do so because its stream hits. Once a person is playing something because they HAVE to, rather than because they WANT to, they're doing something wrong.
Soldato
His words didn't suggest anything other than the way you have interpreted them. Your taking his "I hope it's dead in a month" which is wildly out of context of what he said in full, and attributing it things he hasn't said. End of the day it's his opinion. Everyone is excited to play this game (including Shroud), a month after release I'm sure most people will have moved on, with exception of my earlier post and the reply by @mrk who'll want to explore every little thing, if it hasn't been done by then.
I don't know why you care so much about what some big streamer or anyone else says.
Christ man, is this the topic of your dissertation or something?
Who?
Although I disagree with almost everything that you ever write on the forums, I must agree with you on this one, it is daft of me to care what some big streamer says, just as its daft of me to care what you ever say. Both the streamer and you are inconsequential and irrelevant and I should treat both as such. I really should learn to dismiss the words and writings of unimportant nobodies and stop giving any weight to what they say. I will endeavour much more to keep that as my mantra and to only pay attention and give credence to people who matter.
A streamer who predominantly plays shooters and thinks he's, to quote Anchorman, kind of a big deal
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Mar 2011
- Posts
- 5,421
Seems highly likely that people will have moved on after a month given the amount of guides and leaks and spoilers etc. already released and people practically planning their entire path through the game months ahead like they're planning the route through Disneyland to make sure they waste minimal time... Each to their own as always but as is typical these days I expect most of the surprise and interesting storytelling to be completely ruined/spoiled for everyone by the end of the first weekend (yes you can avoid it to an extent, but you can guarantee Eurogamer will have their tonedeaf articles that spoil major things in the title/headline, there will be spoiler-y memes everywhere you look etc.)
2020's Dumbledore Dies ?
uh, how?
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Mar 2011
- Posts
- 5,421
Haven't you seen all the articles from the gaming websites? It may be pure clickbait and actually contain nothing of substance but I'd rather experience the game for myself so I've not read them (and so apologies if I'm way off base) but here's one that I saw for example (on Eurogamer I think):
"Here's a full itemized list of every faction in the game, with their backstory, pros and cons of joining each one and our recommendation of which one you should go with"
Again, each to their own, but personally I like the idea of discovering the different factions in a big open world game for myself?