*** Cyberpunk 2077 ***

Soldato
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Just a quick question - I've seen a lot of GTA 5 vs Cyberpunk videos but, as I've never played GTA5 (but know that it's been out for years), I'm wondering if these videos are showing a "like for like" comparison i.e what GTA 5 looked like when it had only been out for 3 weeks vs CP2077 at 3 weeks?

I ask as I suspect the videos are actually showing the current version of GTA 5, after years of patches and development, vs a brand new CP2077?

This has only happened to me once, but my character is primarily a quickhacker. The damaging quickhacks just didn't work. I had to hide then grab to eventually kill it.

Fair enough, just add it to one more glitch to get fixed :D
 
Caporegime
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Just a quick question - I've seen a lot of GTA 5 vs Cyberpunk videos but, as I've never played GTA5 (but know that it's been out for years), I'm wondering if these videos are showing a "like for like" comparison i.e what GTA 5 looked like when it had only been out for 3 weeks vs CP2077 at 3 weeks?

I ask as I suspect the videos are actually showing the current version of GTA 5, after years of patches and development, vs a brand new CP2077?



Fair enough, just add it to one more glitch to get fixed :D

GTA 5 looked pretty good from the outset on PC as it was released on Xbox 360/PS3 in September 2013, then Xbox One and PS4 in November 2014 and then PC in March 2015.

So they had plenty of time to perfect it.
 
Caporegime
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Shoul you encounter this again the quicker "fix" is to use a quickhack with a damage output on them as this seems to reset their invulnerability. I used Cyberware Malfunction but it should work with any that have a damage output (so don't use Ping etc).

I used Contagion and it didn't kill them.

I have discovered a completed OP cyberware hack though. One of the legendary ones I have adds reboot optics to the breach mode. As long as you breach one soldier before you start attacking, they literally all go blind as you start shooting/hitting each enemy.

Playing on hard and could often only take a hit or two. Now they can't even fire at me because they are all blind.
 
Associate
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Just a quick question - I've seen a lot of GTA 5 vs Cyberpunk videos but, as I've never played GTA5 (but know that it's been out for years), I'm wondering if these videos are showing a "like for like" comparison i.e what GTA 5 looked like when it had only been out for 3 weeks vs CP2077 at 3 weeks?

I ask as I suspect the videos are actually showing the current version of GTA 5, after years of patches and development, vs a brand new CP2077?



Fair enough, just add it to one more glitch to get fixed :D
You look at it the wrong way. Lots of games release with bugs and cyberpunk is one of them. GTA V would have had some bugs on release too.

But what is being compared in those videos is basic effects,AI and physics. Those are not bugs they are fundamentally missing from the game or of lower quality than a game from 7 years ago. ~17 if you include gta 3.

9 times out of 10 developers don't completely overhaul their entire game after release. So expecting this to be "fixed" is a long shot but who knows what they have planned maybe another 2 years
 
Soldato
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Can you 100% this game? Is there something I'm missing?

I'm at 90/40/60 on the pause menu right now, and have no side quests available or visible on the minimap. Only things to do now seem to be to buy rides, and "gun for hire"/"Merc needed" jobs on the minimap.
 
Associate
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You look at it the wrong way. Lots of games release with bugs and cyberpunk is one of them. GTA V would have had some bugs on release too.

But what is being compared in those videos is basic effects,AI and physics. Those are not bugs they are fundamentally missing from the game or of lower quality than a game from 7 years ago. ~17 if you include gta 3.

9 times out of 10 developers don't completely overhaul their entire game after release. So expecting this to be "fixed" is a long shot but who knows what they have planned maybe another 2 years

Thing is that 17 years ago when it was GTA3 it was a lot closer to what Cyberpunk is now in these comparison videos, traffic AI was more basic, general AI of peds was more basic, there was no swimming, there was less dynamic things like burstable tires etc. And it's not because that's a super complex technology that we simply didn't have the CPU or GPU technology to deal with at the time, it was just that GTA is a big and complex game full of lots of mechanics and adding more features is a time and thus a money constraint, each iteration of the game can only add so much development. GTAV is a game which I've argued before is probably too complex to make from scratch, it evolved over many many iterations over the years carrying forward technology and development lessons from prior iterations. When we see a GTA VI I'm sure it'll be a further iteration of the same engine which incorporates everything learned and built so far plus whatever else they add on.

Cyberpunk is an open city game being build not from scratch but at least on an engine that really wasn't designed with these kind of mechanics in mind such as large interactions of roads/vehicles/pedestrians etc. These more nuanced things are missing not because of a bug or because the developers are too stupid or lazy, but because to get parity with something like GTA V on features would probably require another 2-3 years of solid development and testing. This is especially true when you consider the relative size of the development teams and budgets of the studios. if we see a string of Cyberpunk games which I hope we do, then I'm sure you'll see large amounts of additional development with each iteration.
 
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Thing is that 17 years ago when it was GTA3 it was a lot closer to what Cyberpunk is now in these comparison videos, traffic AI was more basic, general AI of peds was more basic, there was no swimming, there was less dynamic things like burstable tires etc. And it's not because that's a super complex technology that we simply didn't have the CPU or GPU technology to deal with at the time, it was just that GTA is a big and complex game full of lots of mechanics and adding more features is a time and thus a money constraint, each iteration of the game can only add so much development. GTAV is a game which I've argued before is probably too complex to make from scratch, it evolved over many many iterations over the years carrying forward technology and development lessons from prior iterations. When we see a GTA VI I'm sure it'll be a further iteration of the same engine which incorporates everything learned and built so far plus whatever else they add on.

Cyberpunk is an open city game being build not from scratch but at least on an engine that really wasn't designed with these kind of mechanics in mind such as large interactions of roads/vehicles/pedestrians etc. These more nuanced things are missing not because of a bug or because the developers are too stupid or lazy, but because to get parity with something like GTA V on features would probably require another 2-3 years of solid development and testing. This is especially true when you consider the relative size of the development teams and budgets of the studios. if we see a string of Cyberpunk games which I hope we do, then I'm sure you'll see large amounts of additional development with each iteration.
Ah okay I wait for the next cyberpunk game then. The fact it's even being compared to an almost 20 year old game is embarassing.
What was the Witcher 3? Build on the engine and redesign the map to be set in the future. Replace horses with cars. To hide behind the fact this is their "first" game is also pathetic.

You don't reinvent the wheel and end up with a square shape and say ah it's our first go.
 
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Ah okay I wait for the next cyberpunk game then. The fact it's even being compared to an almost 20 year old game is embarassing.
What was the Witcher 3? Build on the engine and redesign the map to be set in the future. Replace horses with cars. To hide behind the fact this is their "first" game is also pathetic.

You don't reinvent the wheel and end up with a square shape and say ah it's our first go.

Well you'll be missing out on a great game for really dumb reasons.

You've completely and utterly missed the point, which is that it's not their first game, but the first game they've made that requires this kind of technology, and it's something they had to make from the ground up. Games evolve over time and the point of mentioning GTA 3 is that it's evidence that GTA itself evolved over time. Are the earlier version embarrassing because they lacked some of these features? No, they were great games in their own right. OK so why did something like GTA3 lack certain mechanics like say swimming physics/AI or burstable tires. Is it because the technology was too hard, or simulation took too many clock cycles? No of course not, it's just that each feature you make needs time to develop and test and in the real world there's constraints, primarily budget.

If it's true that such big budget experiences cannot be achieved in 1 shot and instead a studio needs to evolve a product over time to get there, then if we all behaved like you, we'd never see anything new. I love GTA V and think it's a masterpiece and guess what, I want to see more competition to that. And if the only way to get that is to support a studio who aspire to build something as large and complex and they need to iterate to get there, then good, I'll support that. And I'll enjoy the iterations for what they are, which for me was about 150 hours so far of solid fun, flawed in some ways but ultimately a unique and extremely impressive experience.
 
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Well you'll be missing out on a great game for really dumb reasons.

You've completely and utterly missed the point, which is that it's not their first game, but the first game they've made that requires this kind of technology, and it's something they had to make from the ground up. Games evolve over time and the point of mentioning GTA 3 is that it's evidence that GTA itself evolved over time. Are the earlier version embarrassing because they lacked some of these features? No, they were great games in their own right. OK so why did something like GTA3 lack certain mechanics like say swimming physics/AI or burstable tires. Is it because the technology was too hard, or simulation took too many clock cycles? No of course not, it's just that each feature you make needs time to develop and test and in the real world there's constraints, primarily budget.

If it's true that such big budget experiences cannot be achieved in 1 shot and instead a studio needs to evolve a product over time to get there, then if we all behaved like you, we'd never see anything new. I love GTA V and think it's a masterpiece and guess what, I want to see more competition to that. And if the only way to get that is to support a studio who aspire to build something as large and complex and they need to iterate to get there, then good, I'll support that. And I'll enjoy the iterations for what they are, which for me was about 150 hours so far of solid fun, flawed in some ways but ultimately a unique and extremely impressive experience.
Oh dear another wall of text to defend the game in comparison to GTA 3. (PS2 era)
I didn't miss the point and I have the game.

GTA evolved over time and every other game that was made in the last 20 years evolved off the back of other peoples work on different types of games.
Unless CDPR work in a complete bubble oblivious to all other advancements in techniques used in games then that is a pretty poor excuse.
Their very own previous game engine had better implementations. The lengths some people go to try to defend the half baked game that was released is mind blowing.

My original post wasn't even an attack on the game. It was an acceptance that the basic features missing are not bugs(their are plenty of bugs too but they are to be expected) but just unfinished parts of the game that may never be fixed unless they do a complete overhaul their game engine.

If we run with your example by the time they have iterated to an acceptable game they will still be 20 years behind the industry standards.
 
Associate
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I think you’ve missed out on some great story telling if you can’t see past the dumb npc’s.

you’ve obviously chosen this hill to die on, but just have a look at how many people are now enjoying this game now that the trial by social media has concluded and the “influencers” have had their 10 mins and 10k views.

City-sim without a story to tell would be worse.
 
Caporegime
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I started playing gta 5 again last night and it's amusing the way people say cyberpunk feels lifeless etc. yet it actually feels far more immersive and alive than what GTA 5 does, regardless of NPCs behaviour. The city in CP feels lived in unlike GTA 5.
 
Soldato
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Just finished exploring the different endings, man some of them are an emotional sledgehammer. Ended up getting really attached to my fem V, haha. Not sure I've played a game before with such varied endings and feelings of consequence for taking decisions.

Story, setting, world building etc all done really well. Fem V voice work was really good. Think this moved the game on in some ways even though it's lacking technically compared to other games. But for me the story and characters trump mechanics etc.

Pretty sure this is my favourite game made so far, I've never sunk this many hours in to a game in such a short space of time and tried to explore all the endings.

What's pretty funny is the almost love/hate divide on this game.
 
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I think you’ve missed out on some great story telling if you can’t see past the dumb npc’s.

you’ve obviously chosen this hill to die on, but just have a look at how many people are now enjoying this game now that the trial by social media has concluded and the “influencers” have had their 10 mins and 10k views.

City-sim without a story to tell would be worse.
I played it and am saving the last few missions to see how they update January/February? As a story driven game it was a good game so far as an open world action adventure or rpg game its fairly poor.

Am I not allowed to point out the parts of the game that are clearly 20 years behind the rest of the world? Or what is your problem with that? Or what do you feel I have missed out on exactly?

Again another jump to defence at the slightest of negative comment.

@DanF I agree to an extent on the love/hate aspect as there are clearly some great parts of the game but there are also so many things that were left half done.


Every game is open to critique, not every comment has to be defended against though. Simply accept that other people can see the corners that were cut to release this game and move on.
Hopefully, they get an opportunity to put it right but they will have a lot of work to do.
 
Soldato
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@DanF I agree to an extent on the love/hate aspect as there are clearly some great parts of the game but there are also so many things that were left half done.

Oh yeah I can completely see this and understand why some don't like it so much. I think you have to really like the characters and story they are telling, then the game is amazing. If you don't and just take it as another game to play and focus more on gaming technicalities then it's got issues. Hopefully they will work on this overtime release some DLC etc. Combined with the modding community it should end up being something pretty special.
 

TNA

TNA

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I think some people just see it black or white and see what they want to see. I mean if you say something positive you are either defending the game or you are an nvidia fanboy. Lol.

I agree with Princess. I have put around 75 hours in and even though it is not as good as I was expecting it has been a lot of fun and has me hooked. Now that I have run out of any missions to do, I am finishing of all the achievements. Only a few games ever get me to do that as I don't tend to give a toss about them.


Pretty sure this is my favourite game made so far, I've never sunk this many hours in to a game in such a short space of time and tried to explore all the endings.

You sir must be the biggest Nvidia fanboy. They brainwashed you so well to say such a thing of a buggy mess of a game that is no way near as good as a super old game like GTA 5. Now please stop defending this half finished game!

:p
 
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Oh dear another wall of text to defend the game in comparison to GTA 3. (PS2 era)
I didn't miss the point and I have the game.

GTA evolved over time and every other game that was made in the last 20 years evolved off the back of other peoples work on different types of games.
Unless CDPR work in a complete bubble oblivious to all other advancements in techniques used in games then that is a pretty poor excuse.
Their very own previous game engine had better implementations. The lengths some people go to try to defend the half baked game that was released is mind blowing.

My original post wasn't even an attack on the game. It was an acceptance that the basic features missing are not bugs(their are plenty of bugs too but they are to be expected) but just unfinished parts of the game that may never be fixed unless they do a complete overhaul their game engine.

If we run with your example by the time they have iterated to an acceptable game they will still be 20 years behind the industry standards.

Wall of text, that's just a cope, your reply is as long as mine was, this is just a weird snipe that's kinda cringe, just stay on point and argue the argument if you care about such things.

The game was never compared to GTA 3 it was compared to GTA V. GTA 3 was only mentioned (by me) in the context of demonstrating that GTA itself as a technology evolved over time, GTA V didn't spring into existence in 1 game. Your attempt to suggest Cyberpunk is comparable to GTA 3 in any meaningful way is transparently wrong, and I think we all get that.

You're conflating evolution of game engines with advancement of features and techniques. And again near the end of your post you do the same thing which suggests you probably lack of the knowledge for how this works in practice. Features or techniques are things which still require specific implementation in code. To take a specific example just because GTA V devs have written an implementation for AI to allow cars to understand a car in front has stopped and then to sample the road ahead to see if it's appropriate to overtake and then attempt to overtake, doesn't mean it magically springs into code all around the world in everyone else's game engine. Their technology is proprietary and licenced to them, if CDPR wants that same feature they have to write it themselves.

The benefit of owning a proprietary engine yourself is that you can iterate on your own technology and improve it over time. You rarely "overhaul" engines, that's the whole point. You take what is there, say basic traffic AI and then you add new additional features like a "cars can overtake blocked roads" feature, which expands the old code to add new abilities for the AI to execute. You really haven't offered your own explanation for why the game is the way it is. You label these things as missing rather than bugs, and I agree. But why are they missing? I contest that it's merely development time, and fundamentally if you understand how businesses work that translates into budget and limited budgets means limited features. It's true for GTA it's true for Cyberpunk, it's true for every other game. There's really no studios spitting out GTA V level games in 1 dev cycle, close analogues like Watchdogs are equally as lacking especially in their first iteration, again it being a game that evolved over time.

This last statement is just wrong. They've made a game which while deficient in some areas compared to say GTA V is certainly much closer to GTA V than to GTA 3, except that they excel in other areas by a significant margin, especially when it comes to graphical effects, the shadows, real time lighting, story telling, character building. They did all this in half the time it took Rockstar to get to GTA V and with significantly smaller studios and smaller overall total budgets.

All I'm saying here is that it's apples and oranges, GTA V is part of a franchise which evolved over time and the sum total amount of time, effort and money that went into evolving that technology is so large that getting parity with it for ANY studio, not just CDPR, is inherently a very hard thing to do in a single dev cycle. And so such comparisons are fundamentally unreasonable.
 
Soldato
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You sir must be the biggest Nvidia fanboy. They brainwashed you so well to say such a thing of a buggy mess of a game that is no way near as good as a super old game like GTA 5. Now please stop defending this half finished game!

:p

:D well the 3090 was helping. But the game didn't need RT to be great.
 

TNA

TNA

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:D well the 3090 was helping. But the game didn't need RT to be great.
Indeed. I honestly can't wait for more content. More so a sequel. Just hope they keep night city and just use the dev time to add and improve what is there and just add new characters and story.

Oh and this time make the main story longer or at least have more cool side quests :)
 
Associate
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I think some people just see it black or white and see what they want to see. I mean if you say something positive you are either defending the game or you are an nvidia fanboy. Lol.

I agree with Princess. I have put around 75 hours in and even though it is not as good as I was expecting it has been a lot of fun and has me hooked. Now that I have run out of any missions to do, I am finishing of all the achievements. Only a few games ever get me to do that as I don't tend to give a toss about them.




You sir must be the biggest Nvidia fanboy. They brainwashed you so well to say such a thing of a buggy mess of a game that is no way near as good as a super old game like GTA 5. Now please stop defending this half finished game!

:p

Except I didn't quote a post to try and convince someone the game is bad/good. I just pointed out the difference between the bugs and engine/design choices or limitations due to time or whatever reason :p

@PrincessFrosty I have no argument to argue here, you are in complete defence mode because people are comparing the game to one made almost 20 years ago.
They are doing it for a reason. I have no idea why you care so much to try explain or make an excuse for why the game fell short in certain areas.

I'll condense my original comment so you don't need to reply in flat out defence of the game as an in depth analysis of 20 years of video games is not required here.
Original Comment:
Lots of games release with bugs these are sometimes inevitable and will get patched.
The reason people are comparing the game to GTA series is because some of the much older GTA games had better implementations of AI, physics,water, character animations, explosions etc.
They are not saying that everything in GTA is better. I think we can end the conversation here.
 
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