1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Do you think satellite set top boxes could do full 1080p 3d?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jooragi, 25 Sep 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jooragi

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 26 Jun 2009

    Posts: 37

    Well I ran out of room on the thread title

    I thought what if satellite set top box companies like in Europe who have SKY HD, could make a new box which supports HDMI 1.4 and has quad coax inputs. Then I wonder if it's possible to send full 1080p blu-ray movies down all 4 coax cables from the satellite dish to this new set top box, would that be possible?

    Then another step, could you double the quality of the blu-ray movie?

    another step further, could you then add 3d 1080p to current quality blu-ray movies?

    Then add 3d 1080p while doubling the quality of blu-ray?

    Could this be done via satellite with a new box featuring what I have just said?

    Now on to the next bit

    I know of satellite internet, some countries have 24 mbps metered downloads. But their uploads are appalling. It takes a while to receive your email, to upload an attachment can take a lot longer. The only way you can have the best experience is if you are prepared to pay a lot of money per month. We are talking anywhere from £150-£1000 per month. So what these customers do with the cheaper system is, they use the 24mbps for downloading movies, but then use a standard 1mbps or more DSL internet connection for emails and uploading attachments.

    Now I have been looking into all these cloud gaming services. www.Gaikai.com www.onlive.com AMD fusion render cloud powered by OTOY software. There is now a new comer called PlayCast www.playcast-media.com which is sending video games to cable set top boxes and IPTV's via H.264 video streams. You only need a cable box that can decode h.264 videos. Very interesting, they just launched a closed beta in Israel and several hundred people are testing the system. They have plans to bring the service worldwide soon. They said that Xbox 360 and PS3 games will be on the service. I guess it will be back cataloged games. I can't see the console manufacturers putting out their latest and exclusive games onto the system. This system would work great in the UK with virgin who offer fiber optic cable services via a set top box. Virgin offer 50 mbps speeds and they have planned 200 mbps soon to offer 3d TV channels via their service. Unfortunately virgin are not in all areas of the UK yet. This is unfortunate as virgin offer their fiber optic broadband for phone calls, TV, internet browsing, downloading etc.

    Now I was thinking about this, for all these cloud gaming services you need a good upload speed because it works using your internet connection to send back the commands from the controller to their data center. So what I thought was, what if satellite set top box companies could offer a cloud gaming service. Your thinking, yeah but satellite uploading wouldn't work because of the poor speed compared to the down speed like I said further up. Well that's why you could send the cloud service via the satellite downstream and send the commands back via your standard internet's upload connection. You see with SKY HD they have an ethernet port on the back and this is for future internet use, when they launch their 3d TV channel they also have plans for a video on demand service like the bbci player that would work through your existing internet connection through the ethernet port. So there you go, sending controller commands shouldn't require too much bandwidth, easily achievable with half to 1 mbps upload speeds. And the satellite could send easily the downstream. Now people like gaikai will be offering 480p cloud gaming to a PC. Onlive are offering 720p to PC and TV via their micro console. I wonder if with satellite we could do full 1080p or even 1080p 3d games with that new set top box idea I mentioned at the start of this thread with the quad coax and hdmi 1.4 connection. Which would easily have enough bandwidth. Now better to this is the fact that there are people complaining that cloud internet based gaming eats your bandwidth up like crazy, not yourt upload, but people are complaining about the download. They say this wouldn'twork for most of the people in the USA who have capped download limits per month. Well then using my idea of doing it through satellite for the download part seems common sense as satellite will have much more bandwidth and satellite companies could offer unlimited monthly downlaad accounts. Even the system could work right now for 480p or 720p games. but I know SKY HD can only do 1/4 resolution blu-ray in 1080i for 2d/3d TV. So perhaps games in 1080i 2d/3d is already possible. I know there was talk of Onlive saying it's entirely possible to do their service over satellite streams. Because they would only need a box that can decode h.264 video, and SKY HD already do this for their sky movies. Gaikai which is internet based is using adobe flash for their cloud internet service for PC use. But said they plan to go to IPTV's and cable set top boxes using h.264 video streams which is the same as what PlayCast are doing as well.

    So as you read all that, can someone technical here answer my questions whether they think it's all possible with current technology or with my quad coax, hdmi 1.4 box setup?
     
  2. Hitman_Leon

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 29 May 2004

    Posts: 4,493

    Location: Tall building nearby

    Think you need to at least split your questions between hifi and home cinema, general hardware and internet and conectivity, at least......
     
  3. jamief

    Soldato

    Joined: 23 Sep 2005

    Posts: 5,402

    Location: Dundee

    The problem with Satellite isn't bandwidth, its latency.
     
  4. mac1st3

    Mobster

    Joined: 14 Jun 2009

    Posts: 4,170

    Location: Southampton

    :eek:Long post is loooooooooooooooooooooong!:rolleyes:
     
  5. Hitman_Leon

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 29 May 2004

    Posts: 4,493

    Location: Tall building nearby

    I gave up reading and just skimmed through, too much information for a friday afternoon :(.
     
  6. Abraham

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 13 Dec 2002

    Posts: 7,646

    Location: Manchester City Centre

    can you have HD to a satellite set top box? yes it's called sky HD. the rest tldr;
     
  7. GravyMonster

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 14,349

    Location: The land of milk & beans

    Wall of text crits you for over 9000. You die.
     
  8. mac1st3

    Mobster

    Joined: 14 Jun 2009

    Posts: 4,170

    Location: Southampton

    *rolls for initiative* nooooooooo!!!!!!!
     
  9. rsatd

    Mobster

    Joined: 17 Jul 2008

    Posts: 2,807

    Location: London

    x_x
     
  10. willhub

    Capodecina

    Joined: 3 Jan 2006

    Posts: 23,267

    Location: MediaCityUK

    I've just got a headache :(
     
  11. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

    Posts: 66,594

    Location: Wales

  12. asim18

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Dec 2006

    Posts: 15,410

    Yeah but TV is only one way communication. Doesn't matter even if there's a few minutes of latency.
     
    Last edited: 25 Sep 2009
  13. jooragi

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 26 Jun 2009

    Posts: 37

    all these cloud gaming services have created algorithms to combat latency, you still get it but it's much lower than you think and people don't notice it.
     
  14. rsatd

    Mobster

    Joined: 17 Jul 2008

    Posts: 2,807

    Location: London

    Ok, I attempted to try to read that again, as stb + 1080p + 3d made no sense, but got killed again by the wall of text... x_x
     
  15. starfighter

    Mobster

    Joined: 4 Aug 2008

    Posts: 4,934

    Location: Manchester.

    Firstly HD sat is 1080i isn't it?

    3D is going to require double the data rate as it is basically 2 channels of video. Unless they half the FPS.

    So it might be possible on Sattelite, yes.

    Internet on satellite is rubbish, it is only going to be used where it is hard to lay cables or put up masts due to its lack of upload and massive latency.

    Games are indeed great but again latency and bandwidth are the issues with cloud computing, it is easier to have a decent graphics card than it is to have a fibre optic connection which is essentially what you need. sub 10ms ping and 100s of MB on tap.

    Sat is good for sending TV 1 way because latency doesn't matter nor does it require any upload unless you have interactive services or OD services, all this stuff will be better done over fibre when we have it.
     
  16. starfighter

    Mobster

    Joined: 4 Aug 2008

    Posts: 4,934

    Location: Manchester.

    There are things they can do to help to an extent, but I still wouldn't want to play against someone on a 10ms ping if I was on 1000ms+ which is what sat will be.

    Cloud computing (gaming) is essentially streaming 1080p video + a few keyboard commands so it isn't impossible on ADSL2+ or cable. It is deffinetly feesable that it will work on these technologies but sattelite is really really bad. Just forget it.


    Yes, sky could enable internet over the satelite but they aint going to as it is better put towards more TV channels as they already bought Easynet and have DSLAMS in a lot of exchanges and the network to back it up meaning they need to sell DSL and phone lines.

    So it is kind of competing against themselves, + it wouldn't competetive on price with DSL, it would be better to increase TV channels and adverts and get more money that way.

    Sat just isn't that suited to internet. not woth the effort in a 1st world country.
     
    Last edited: 25 Sep 2009
  17. elroberto

    Mobster

    Joined: 21 Apr 2004

    Posts: 3,037

    Location: Sunny Wales

    Sky are launching a 3D service utilising their existing HD set-top boxes in 2010.

    There's nothing stopping broadcasts in 1080p, the only reason they stick to 720p and 1080i is to reduce channel bandwidths though I'm sure I read somewhere that some of their movies have been shown in 1080p.

    They do need to seriously address their bandwidth squeezing though. The amount of compression that was noticable on Wednesday night's football was appauling. As I'm paying £10 a month extra for it I'd expect a lot better.
     
  18. jooragi

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 26 Jun 2009

    Posts: 37

    you guys didn't quite get what I am trying to say,

    I am sorry I am not good at explaining things

    What I am saying is, if sky allow you to use your own internet connection via the SKY HD ethernet port, then you could use it to send control commands from a cloud game back to the data center, but get the games video stream from the data center sent down satellite to your SKY HD box. This would be perfect and easily doable I would imagine, they could in fact beat all of the cloud gaming competitors doing it this wasy. The latency would be tiny.
     
  19. dangerstat

    Soldato

    Joined: 15 Nov 2008

    Posts: 5,061

    Location: In the ether

    It's not possible to do this with a half decent number of subscribers with Sky.

    Just imagine it, say 2 million people decide to play one of these streamed HD games. Lets (conservatively) say that each client needs sat<->client bandwidth of 256k (with compression) that's over 480 GB/s bandwidth needed! Now that's fine for fibre but not for a Satelite link!

    The reason Sky works is that each client gets the *same* stream.

    The only via platform would be ADSL or Optical Fibre.

    With your plan it makes no sense, you want to connect a Sky box capable to a standard dial up line to relay the "controls" but the latency would still be aweful? If it was connected to an ADSL line - then you may aswell stream the HD action via the ADSL connection too :confused:
     
  20. BigglesPiP

    Capodecina

    Joined: 8 Mar 2006

    Posts: 13,293

    Location: Near Winchester

    3d 1080p ? LOLWUT?

    The LNB has 4 coax cables for multiplexing, not trunking. Trunking probably would be possible, but I'm fairly sure enough data for good quality 1080p could fit down 1 cable.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.