Draytek Vigor 130 and FTTC SNR setting increased sync

[ChrisD.]

Lower latency is my experience also, it's because the modem and router are integrated in it's same device.

I'm a software engineer, all the companies i've been involved in use Draytek, I personalty use a Draytek Vigor at home, they are one of the best.

Draytek are average at best.

 

[Armageus]

Draytek make very average routers that are usually specified by people who don’t know better or care, because they figure Draytek=Business. They aren’t specifying them because they are good in any particular area, but because they get LTS and are generally the definition of networking mediocrity.

Draytek are average at best.

So what do either of you recommend?

Coming as a Draytek user both at home and at work, I can safely say I specify them (and certainly do care and/or know better), but I'm under no illusion that they are proper enterprise kit - they are at best SME or "prosumer" level, and for that on the whole they just work (and work forever).

I can't think of anything off the shelf that has a similar feature set for similar price (and no - routers that are exclusively command line based don't really count)

 

[Caged]

If you want something that is a router and also has a VDSL modem built in, with the option of being able to do central management of devices, collect statistics and perform firmware updates then Draytek + ACS is one of very few options if you're not at the scale where you can manage your own TR-069 infrastructure.

 

[JasonM]

It's also the continued support Draytek gives, when G.INP was first introduced I had an email chain with Draytek about this, Draytek support were taking my emails and passing them to their software development team.

My Vigor 2860n is now 7 years old, yet only last week Draytek released yet another firmware release. Dispite it's age it's always worked faultless, and will only change that router (to another future Vigor) when I eventually move to FTTP and require faster WAN throughput.

 

[kitfit1]

Draytek are average at best.

As a router, you could well be correct. But as a Modem the Vigor 130 is just about one of the best there is, especially if you have the misfortune to be connected to an ECI cab. Even you know this from your OP in this very thread.

 

[ChrisD.]

As a router, you could well be correct. But as a Modem the Vigor 130 is just about one of the best there is, especially if you have the misfortune to be connected to an ECI cab. Even you know this from your OP in this very thread.

True to an extend but I'd rather have a fritzbox if they did a modem only box. I'm also unlucky to be enough to be on an ECI cabinet.

 

[jamesmacwhite]

Just wanted to thank the OP for the SNR delta tip. I'm connected to an ECI cabinet and found my sync speeds to be at max around 64 Mbps with a SNR of 5/6db. After setting the SNR delta to -50, I got the max of 80 Mbps, but I think DLM has possibly been invoked and banded me but it's still not too bad.

Without changing the SNR delta this is what I got from my sync speeds:

> vdsl status

---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 64156000 bps US Actual Rate : 20000000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 65151016 bps US Attainable Rate : 23977772 bps
DS Path Mode : Fast US Path Mode : Fast
DS Interleave Depth : 1 US Interleave Depth : 1
NE Current Attenuation : 13 dB Cur SNR Margin : 6 dB
DS actual PSD : 1. 5 dB US actual PSD : 1. 7 dB
NE CRC Count : 151 FE CRC Count : 109
NE ES Count : 129 FE ES Count : 65
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 2
ITU Version[0] : fe004452 ITU Version[1] : 41590000
VDSL Firmware Version : 05-07-06-0D-01-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 11 dB Far SNR Margin : 8 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004946 CO ITU Version[1] : 544eb206
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < IFTN >

I flashed the alternative firmware build, given I'm on an ECI DSLAM and it went up to 65 Mbps, but didn't really seem that beneficial. So have since reverted back to the BT firmware build. I then tested the SNR delta change and found I got the full 80 Mbps:

> vdsl status

---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
   Running Mode            :      17A       State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 79995000 bps   US Actual Rate       : 20000000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 82568328 bps   US Attainable Rate   : 24143688 bps
   DS Path Mode            :        Fast    US Path Mode         :        Fast
   DS Interleave Depth     :        1       US Interleave Depth  :        1
   NE Current Attenuation  :       13 dB    Cur SNR Margin       :        1  dB
   DS actual PSD           :     1. 6 dB    US actual PSD        :     1. 7  dB
   NE CRC Count            :       24       FE CRC Count         :      139
   NE ES Count             :       24       FE  ES Count         :       93
   Xdsl Reset Times        :        0       Xdsl Link  Times     :        2
   ITU Version[0]          : fe004452       ITU Version[1]       : 41590000
   VDSL Firmware Version   : 05-07-06-0D-01-07   [with Vectoring support]
   Power Management Mode   : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
   Test Mode               : DISABLE
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :       11 dB    Far SNR Margin       :        9  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : b5004946       CO ITU Version[1]    : 544eb206
   DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < IFTN >

After a couple of days of leaving the SNR delta change set, I believe DLM has possibly dropped me back down to 73 Mbps with an SNR of 3db, compared to 1dB as it was with the initial SNR delta change.

> vdsl status

  ---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
   Running Mode            :      17A       State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 73993000 bps   US Actual Rate       : 20000000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 80554904 bps   US Attainable Rate   : 22634764 bps
   DS Path Mode            :        Fast    US Path Mode         :        Fast
   DS Interleave Depth     :        1       US Interleave Depth  :        1
   NE Current Attenuation  :       12 dB    Cur SNR Margin       :        3  dB
   DS actual PSD           :     0.-2 dB    US actual PSD        :     0.-1  dB
   NE CRC Count            :      411       FE CRC Count         :      241
   NE ES Count             :      272       FE  ES Count         :      137
   Xdsl Reset Times        :        0       Xdsl Link  Times     :        3
   ITU Version[0]          : fe004452       ITU Version[1]       : 41590000
   VDSL Firmware Version   : 05-07-06-0D-01-07   [with Vectoring support]
   Power Management Mode   : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
   Test Mode               : DISABLE
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :       11 dB    Far SNR Margin       :        6  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : b5004946       CO ITU Version[1]    : 544eb206

An average of 70 Mbps is still not bad though, compared to where it was originally. It does remain to be seen if it can stay within those limits though.

 

[Phar]

So @ChrisD. @Avalon what do you guys recommend for the prosumer if Draytek's are average and mediocre?

 

[ChrisD.]

So @ChrisD. @Avalon what do you guys recommend for the prosumer if Draytek's are average and mediocre?

Great first post. I assume you're in no way affiliated with Draytek?

 

[CFC-420]

I use the Vigor 130 + Nighthawk R7800 with my Sky BB. It's been fantastic.
To try this I would need to take it out of bridged mode somehow?

 

[Phar]

Great first post. I assume you're in no way affiliated with Draytek?

Ha, no. Just a long time Vigor 2850 & 2860 owner who thinks (thought?) these were the best prosumer Routers on the market. If they aren't, I'd love to know what is.

I stumbled on this thread when searching for noise profile issues with Drayteks and had to sign up to ask the 'what's better' question.

Edit: I really have found nothing that comes close to features for the price that the Vigor's offer.

 

[JasonM]

My Vigor 2860n is almost 7 years old now, Draytek have confirmed they will support it providing it has a 'heart beat' and underlining technology is still in use, in other words my 2860n will be getting updates until I eventually move to FTTP.

The Draytek routers are just amazing, there just solid and do anything a prosumer or small enterprise could ever want. Draytek customer support is also very good, and they will send your requests to their software developers if necessary.

During lockdown have done many Zoom calls, not a single call was slowed down. This is despite running a home server and sometimes other downloads happening. I only have a 37mbps down / 9.5 mbps upload yet the Vigors QOS and hardware acceleration features always seem to keep network activity running smooth.

 

[westtra]

Hi.
Just got a vigor 130 and out of the box it's connecting quicker than the 7 year old openreach modem I had that seems to have been slowly dropping connection speed from a peak of 58mbs down to 49 the other day

Tried the -50 SNR but would not re connect. Is it a case of change the number until a stable connection is found. Also how do I track drops/connection time etc on the modem? Also do I need to put it in bridge mode as currently connected ok but not in bridge mode.



Type ? for command help

> vdsl status
---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 57441000 bps US Actual Rate : 9192000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 56970768 bps US Attainable Rate : 9192000 bps
DS Path Mode : Fast US Path Mode : Fast
DS Interleave Depth : 1 US Interleave Depth : 1
NE Current Attenuation : 20 dB Cur SNR Margin : 3 dB
DS actual PSD : 7. 8 dB US actual PSD : 13. 5 dB
NE CRC Count : 0 FE CRC Count : 2097
NE ES Count : 0 FE ES Count : 1469
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 1
ITU Version[0] : fe004452 ITU Version[1] : 41590000
VDSL Firmware Version : 05-07-06-0D-01-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 29 dB Far SNR Margin : 6 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004244 CO ITU Version[1] : 434dc01c
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < BDCM >

 

[visibleman]

I can't think of anything off the shelf that has a similar feature set for similar price (and no - routers that are exclusively command line based don't really count)

This is the crux of it. Sure, there are better wireless products and there are better routing products but as an off-the-shelf well priced AIO solution with decent support, they are hard to beat, especially for SME's.

To be honest, those that "hate" on Draytek have typically had very little hands-on time with them and/or have operating budgets that vastly exceed Draytek's target market(s) and try and compare to products/setups that are five/ten times the cost.

So @ChrisD. @Avalon what do you guys recommend for the prosumer if Draytek's are average and mediocre?

It'd certainly be interesting hear what others would roll-out to SME's that is similarly priced and doesn't involve the usual Untangle (ends up being a lot more expensive) or beige-boxing something (just nope).

 

[Orcvader]

Hi.
Just got a vigor 130 and out of the box it's connecting quicker than the 7 year old openreach modem I had that seems to have been slowly dropping connection speed from a peak of 58mbs down to 49 the other day

Tried the -50 SNR but would not re connect. Is it a case of change the number until a stable connection is found. Also how do I track drops/connection time etc on the modem? Also do I need to put it in bridge mode as currently connected ok but not in bridge mode.

Snip

Your SNR is already at 6db so it's pretty low. If you're on an ECI cabinet it will be hard to push that lower, I've tried with mine but little success. Those on Huawei cabinets have better chances of getting 3db.

-50 will cause it to drop by 5db which would result in 1db, which is very hard to stay in sync so I would try -10 first to see how that goes.

EDIT: Whoops, looked at the wrong thing and noticed your SNR is actually at 3db already, you're already at the best SNR you can get if it's stable.

 

[westtra]

Your SNR is already at 6db so it's pretty low. If you're on an ECI cabinet it will be hard to push that lower, I've tried with mine but little success. Those on Huawei cabinets have better chances of getting 3db.

-50 will cause it to drop by 5db which would result in 1db, which is very hard to stay in sync so I would try -10 first to see how that goes.

EDIT: Whoops, looked at the wrong thing and noticed your SNR is actually at 3db already, you're already at the best SNR you can get if it's stable.

street view shows it as a huawei 96/128 cabinet.

Is the speed we get purely down to the line length and not able to be helped by playing with settings?

 

[mid_gen]

So, I've just connected a new Draytek Vigor 130 to replace the Sky broadband bit of plastic.

It's plumbed into an Asus RT-AC66U running Merlin and I got the connection up and running ok.

But I'm seeing a fair bit of packet loss, that I didn't see on the Sky hub

First things to try?

How do I get back into the Draytek web admin now that it's in Bridge Mode?

 

[sideways14a]

Finally got my new edgerouter X connect with my old Dray 130 in pppoe mode - did some of the changes mentioned in the thread and gained about 5 Mb/s
however i now have a great setup with the low power edgerouter being pretty good, standalone managed AP's and pihole going back in along with poe switches and soon to be flightradar 24 node.

Not using much power at all, not like my previous with a 12 core 24thread HP server running the kit, total overkill - this is much better.

 

[sideways14a]

As for getting into the dray once its in bridged mode... its possible but you have to **** about with vlans and all that crap - fine down the line but if you have just got it working its a pita

I would just disconnect it from your lan, plug it into your pc and access it direct to its 192.168.2.x address (which i assume you left it on)

 

[andy_mk3]

So, I've just connected a new Draytek Vigor 130 to replace the Sky broadband bit of plastic.

It's plumbed into an Asus RT-AC66U running Merlin and I got the connection up and running ok.

But I'm seeing a fair bit of packet loss, that I didn't see on the Sky hub

First things to try?

How do I get back into the Draytek web admin now that it's in Bridge Mode?

As above it's a PITA to get working. My sysadmin friend got it set up for me with VLANs.

These are my settings I shared some time ago, I'm using pfSense so will be a little different than your Asus router.

https://imgur.com/gallery/Xykm7Cf