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Drill Rap - innocent or guilty?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Screeeech, 27 Jul 2018.

  1. asim18

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Dec 2006

    Posts: 15,410

    Also it is unfortunate that we have people in society who are scared/anxious of 10 black men wearing balaclavas filming a video in a park and think armed response is appropriate even though NO crime has been committed. Imagine the anxiety these types of people feel just walking around the streets in a quaint village somewhere, let alone London. These are the types of people who will cause a police state because they have been brainwashed so much and feel so much anxiety.

    How can anyone think they would be ACTUALLY carrying a gun whilst parading/filming a video in their local turf/park? I'm not saying these people don't have access to a gun if they need it, but do people really think they are that stupid to parade strapped? They know all eyes are on them if they're loitering around the streets in a pack, they're black!, they're not going to be parading whilst strapped for goodness sake - their aim is to WASTE police time, NOT attract police attention while in possession of a gun! Its really shocking how little people understand criminology as well as general psychology and sociology of gang culture and life in London.

    Meanwhile, growing up in one of the worst boroughs in london, 15 black men are nothing to worry about. I mean is there actually anyone on these forums who has grown up in a community with 50+% black kids and would feel absolutely no anxiety approaching a group of black men?? I seem to doubt it.
     
  2. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: 29 Dec 2014

    Posts: 3,929

    Location: 16509

    To be fair, I assume you read the report? It seems that someone actually contacted the police and made an allegation that one of them might have had a firearm. Bearing in mind this is obviously some sort of gang related *thing* put two and two together - it seems reasonable to think that it might warrant further investigation?

    With the current climate of gang problems, it seems to me (from all I've read) that the police made the right call; Put yourself in their shoes, they're damned if they do - damned if they don't;

    Imagine the outcry if someone had called with a legitimate concern regarding a firearm, and the response from the 999 operative was "It's ok sir - they're probably just making a video" then someone gets shot?
     
  3. asim18

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Dec 2006

    Posts: 15,410


    Exactly. You are right. I'm not saying the police were scared I said a member of public was scared and called the cops and wrongly reported a firearm.

    You're absolutely right that its not down to the cops to say "it's okay theyre just filming a video there's no firearm" it's down to the guy who's scared and watching from his window and wrongly reporting a firearm just because he's assuming they've got a gun just because he's been brainwashed into thinking 15 black boys in a park will have a gun on them.
     
  4. Caracus2k

    Soldato

    Joined: 27 Jan 2009

    Posts: 5,592

    Anyone that thinks it's 'racist' to stop and search a bunch of balacalvaded up youth, likely to be acting in a rather aggressive manner, complete with 'hand pointing' jestures after a member of the public calls police as they are concerned needs to get real.

    Having seen a bit of this 'genre' of music it's clear that it's 'visual' style is one with a rather aggressive, menacing nature.

    A witness seeing such actions being carried out may not be able to properly ascertain whether the balaclava wearing youth are actually in possession of firearms, be they real or imitation, and would be well advised to stay away in any case.

    The police having received such a report have to respond with an armed unit as you can't send unarmed units to incidents where persons are suspected to be armed.

    In actual fact if you think such an incident is racist I suggest that you are actually the racist.

    Because the key issue here is not the ethnicity but the actions of thoose involved .

    Why?.. Well let me give you a personal anecdote to assist.

    Back in the late 90's I was a student in a city that was overwhelmingly white.

    My housemates and I had access to some camo gear, gas masks from being in the TA and thought it would be a good laugh one day to have a mess around in the large garden at the rear of the house we jointly rented.

    Move forward about half an hohr and we were all exhausted from having a right good mess around; playing football, mock fighting and play fighting against each other with some bits of wood we had picked up when suddenly two armed response vehicles worth of police rocked up in our garden.

    Five minutes later and it was all sorted with my housemates and myslef looking a bit sheepish having been told to remember what our actions might look like to observers when we were out in the open.

    My house mates and I were of course all white.

    The metropolitan police, for good reason, instructw people filming in public to notify the police if the nature of the filming is likely to cause an issue.

    https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/f/filming/notify-filming/
     
  5. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: 29 Dec 2014

    Posts: 3,929

    Location: 16509

    Fair enough,

    On the flip side I lived in Elephant and Castle for about 5 years, which is (was before it was gentrified) a very black neighbourhood, in the time I lived there I walked past a number of pools of blood with police cordons around them, saw numerous problems first hand and heard of countless others - most of which were almost always involving black teens/youths in gangs. There were some very frightening people hanging around at night.

    The real eye opener, was when I watched a documentary on knife crime one evening (back in about 2015) that showed large groups of these people hanging around at night, casually in possession of things like zombie knives, airguns and in one case a firearm. At one part of the documentary they're interviewing a bunch of these kids armed to the teeth - the camera panned out and I was absolutely shocked to see they were all stood literally right outside the main entrance to the building I lived in at the time (the Strata tower at Elephant and Castle)

    I'm a pretty strong tough(ish) guy, grew up playing rugby, can defend myself - and have done successfully in the past (I have a criminal record for it), generally there isn't much that frightens me - but these kids knocking about in the streets, like the ones in the video with the balaclavas, I'm not embarrassed to admit that they scare the ******** **** out of me, I wouldn't under any circumstances ever try to take them on if confronted I'd just run.

    I'm not scared of them because the BBC says I should be scared or because I've been filled with propaganda, it's because I've seen first hand what these people get up to and the aftermath, they're scared of nobody, they have no parents, no accountability, the police don't scare them - nothing bothers them.

    When someone calls the police because they have concerns in the manner that was reported, given the climate and the probable nature of the situation - it seems pretty reasonable action to take, when you combine all the factors.
     
  6. dowie

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 29 Jan 2008

    Posts: 51,441

    Indeed. The "dats racist" cries are probably the dumbest response to all of this given the circumstances, especially the reports of a gun, the guys wearing balaclavas and the apparent rise in murders in the capital. I think you've summed it up nicely, they're not going to have sent round Dixon of dock green to a bunch of white guys doing the same thing either. And having seen the videos by the same director where they imitate firearms etc.. it is hardly surprising that a witness might have thought they'd seen one, they certainly tend to act as if they are carrying them.

    IIRC in my local area of London a couple of years ago some white actors had a police raid after neighbours overhead them rehearsing for a play with a scene where a man pleads for his life. I guess if they happened to be black instead then a bunch of idiots could play the race card and ignore the rather more relevant reason for armed police turning up.
     
  7. asim18

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Dec 2006

    Posts: 15,410

    Who said it was racist? I said people were scaref/anxious not racist.
     
  8. asim18

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Dec 2006

    Posts: 15,410

    But let's not forget that many people are racist anyway and would just love to see black people dead and in prisons. Heck I've been studying racists for ages.
     
  9. asim18

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Dec 2006

    Posts: 15,410

    People thinking black youths are all armed need to get real.
     
  10. Snookums

    Mobster

    Joined: 27 Mar 2013

    Posts: 3,423

    Location: Nottingham

    The music doesnt stimulate the violence though. The music is just a way in some cases, they get the violence across but the violence isn’t because of the music it would happen regardless, and you’d be surprised a lot of these “dis” tracks are purely publicity, even if they don’t get along they tend to do it more just for views.
     
  11. Screeeech

    Mobster

    Joined: 29 Dec 2014

    Posts: 3,929

    Location: 16509

    I don't think anyone is saying that, but I think it's reasonable given the evidence, that groups of black youths on the streets of London at night, might be best avoided, because they're more likely to be armed than anyone else.

    I don't think this is being racist - it's common sense and trying to avoid conflict.
     
  12. Caracus2k

    Soldato

    Joined: 27 Jan 2009

    Posts: 5,592

    I didn't name or quote you...

    I'll be clearer about the sort of people I am referring to (from the previously linked bbc article)



    'no reason given for the stop' ...eh how about you were acting aggressively, whilst wearing balaclavas, in public, in July whilst probably imitating the possesion of firearms?
     
    Last edited: 28 Jul 2018
  13. Wang Computer

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 18 Oct 2005

    Posts: 1,592

    Aha, I've been wondered what this genre of music was. I've heard gangs of lads playing it from their phones on the Tube (shortly before I block it out with my noise cancelling headphones).

    US gangster rap was all the rage when I were a lad and I'll admit that I did listen to it. However, with its frank references to murder, drugs, crime and misogyny, I don't think anyone could argue that it was beneficial to society. Quite the opposite. I think the same is true of this drill nonsense.
     
  14. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

    Posts: 66,594

    Location: Wales

    Music doesn't cause violence but this music is a tool used by gangs.

    They threaten specific people and other gangs, brag about crimes etc and publish it.

    The other side responds and sooner or later lyrical statements overflow into violence. It's not judt some people looking to be musicians.

    This isn't "music" for music's sake sigma as I'm sure you know. It's more how gang tags and murals are to art. Yes theyr e drawings but the point is to send a message.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 29 Jul 2018
  15. dacads

    Capodecina

    Joined: 3 Sep 2012

    Posts: 11,069

    Location: Valhalla

    Clearly you've just heard what's popular..
     
  16. ~>Dg<~

    Caporegime

    Joined: 1 Jun 2006

    Posts: 32,790

    Location: Notts

    pacman is a real gangsta probably why it happened.

    main reason drill videos are being took down is violence and repeat violence from some of the videos content.

    for instance one area shows them in another area. saying we on your block we 1-0 up in other words shot killed one of your friends.we aint scared.so anyone seeing this from a rival area then responds shooting one of them.this has been happening.

    so a lot of whats been put in the videos has not been made up but actual instances of whats gone off. thats why many listen to it . cause it is real. there is obviously fake stuff going off but many are real things going off. media people love this. as its real. not a american talking nonsense.

    goverment media is dealing with it poorly.will end up being more popular than ever.
     
  17. dowie

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 29 Jan 2008

    Posts: 51,441

    ^^^ that is pretty much it, the recent crackdown isn't because the police/authorities don't like rap music, it's because there has been a recent escalation in violence attributed to the various dis tracks etc..
     
  18. G-MAN2004

    Caporegime

    Joined: 4 Jul 2004

    Posts: 30,236

    Nah, I'm just an old school US west coast fan. Everything else sounds crap to me, but that's just my opinion.
     
  19. Pawnless Endgame

    Capodecina

    Joined: 10 May 2004

    Posts: 11,354

    Location: Sunny Stafford

    The gov't has labelled numerous 'questionable' genres in the last half century:

    Jazz = drugs
    Psychedelic rock = drugs
    Disco = drugs
    Punk = anarchy
    Early rave scene = drugs
    Britpop = North-South politics
    Jungle = violence
    Garage = violence
    Hard house = drugs

    I've listened to the OP's drill links, and to me, it sounds to me like trap. You see a lot of it on Soundclick. Maybe drill is a regional thing or sub-genre, but it definitely sounded like trap to me. While it's not my cup of tea, I think that the gov't cracking down on in seems a bit heavy handed imo. You would have to ban violent films, violent games and you would also have to ban most of the above genres. What about genres from other countries? Where does it end? The police should concentrate on crimes where there is enough reasonable enough suspicion to warrant arrests, and the gov't needs to draw in younger MPs to get a better view and understanding of the younger generation. This whole surveillance culture and nannying is getting old.
     
  20. ~>Dg<~

    Caporegime

    Joined: 1 Jun 2006

    Posts: 32,790

    Location: Notts

    like any genre unless you follow it or know it then you dont really understand it. its not the music. its what related to the music and the videos.