Drive-by-wire

[andi]

What's wrong with losing the feel of a car? Perhabs drivers just dont like to feel that way and i for once believe it is the same not-wanting-to-lose-the-feel approach towards a car with an auto-gear box.
I honestly think this system has potentials, maybe with time it might pick up.

Feel is how you judge how much grip you have, feel is how you judge the bite point on the clutch, feel is how you can tell how much lock you've got on the steering. You might not realise it, but you use it all the time in driving. In spirited driving, you use it even more, thats why cars like the elise, which has nothing to get in the way of feel, are popular. You could adapt to not having feel, you could develop ways round it, but the thing is, feel is good, why would we want to get rid of it?

Drive-By-Wire has few advantages over the current system, and lots of disadvantages.

 

[NickXX]

Fighter jets and passenger planes get maintained to an impeccable level and have controls built to last and work in an emergency.

If applied to cars the system would be built to a budget and 10 years down the line I wouldn't be confident driving a badly maintained car which might suddenly go haywire on you, just another thing to go wrong in my opinion, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

But the same is true of a mechanical system, if badly maintained, it could fail in many ways. Computer systems on planes have a lot of redundancy built in (i.e. three computers able to do the same job in case of the others failing), and car systems will also be built with a massive degree of scrutiny.

 

[ElRazur]

Fighter jets and passenger planes get maintained to an impeccable level and have controls built to last and work in an emergency.
.

im pretty confindent that the technology will be so cheap that it will be readily available at your local garage. I also think it will be easier to maintain than mechanical part hence less likely to breakdown too.

 

[Vertigo]

There are already many systems on many modern cars which are "fly by wire", i.e. there's no direct mechanical or even electrical connection between the controls and that which they operate.

My throttle pedal is simply a potentiometer with a couple of wires connecting it to the ECU. This makes things like cruise control very simple to implement whereas originally these were mechanical systems where you could feel the effect through the throttle pedal.

One area where "intervention" by the ECU is very evident is with braking. ABS is almost standard these days and ESP/DSC/etc are commonplace. We also have emergency brake assist and brake force distribution systems and Mercedes are pushing the boundaries of automated braking with the new S-class.

Such "fly-by-wire" systems are not merely limited to the major controls either. In my car the light and wiper controls are not directly connected to the lighting circuits and wiper motors but simply send control signals to the ECU which then decides what to do. It does raise the slightly frightening possibility that one day, whilst driving through the rain at night, the computer could go bonkers and summarily switch off the lights and wipers

 

[Steve]

I still get excited when my wipers start and stop on their own

 

[Puzzled]

Our 51 Espace has a computer controlled throttle (thingy mijig), and it's horrible. You push the pedal, and nothing happened!

It's had to go in so many times for them to sort it out, and it's still pretty crap.

I know technology has moved on, but cheaper cars come out of the factory with enough problems. This is just going to cause more hassle, and as it's all controlled by a computer (thingy mijig ) I bet you'll have to take it to a dealer to get anything fixed.

 

[Psycrow]

Our 51 Espace has a computer controlled throttle (thingy mijig), and it's horrible. You push the pedal, and nothing happened!

It's had to go in so many times for them to sort it out, and it's still pretty crap.

I know technology has moved on, but cheaper cars come out of the factory with enough problems. This is just going to cause more hassle, and as it's all controlled by a computer (thingy mijig ) I bet you'll have to take it to a dealer to get anything fixed.

Thats french electronics and can be discounted from a discussion on drive by wire systems

In all seriousness cars are moving closer and closer to drive by wire, as has already been said the majority of systems in your car are at least partially controlled via the ECU with no direct driver connection. Look at something like an EVO8 which has computer controlled everything, if the ECU packed in mid powerslide you would be absolutly cooked.
A full drive by wire system wouldn't be ultra expensive to impliment and not any harder to maintain than a mechanical system (possibly easier since there could be more error coding information available). As time goes on more and more of the cars systems will be taken away from the driver, for the majority of drivers thats probably a good thing!

 

[Ev0]

Loads of cars use fbw throttle nowadays.

My 172 being a mk1 doesn't, but all following models are fbw.

 

[Violent-J]

Can you overclock it?

 

[ElRazur]

Can you overclock it?

That will invalidate warranty and insurance. but then think of all the bhp you will gain....hmm

 

[Lashout_UK]

My dad's Merc has a very strange throttle system, that's part fly by wire (throttle cable connects to an intermediate sensing station, butterfly is driven by a motor later on) and I hate driving it. I'm very, very concious of the delay between pressing the pedal and anything actually happen. It lessened when I cleaned the AFM, but still.

Once you learn to drive the car with it's responses, it's fine - but so, so much less reassuring than the instant throttle response I have in any of my Triumphs. Press, go.

Not press, wait for computers, traction control, ECU to judge wether my inputs are correct and apply results in kind...I prefer it with a cable!

 

[Mickey_D]

One thing to consider with FBW steering and braking -

What controls the electricity in your car? A bunch of lead plates with hydrochloric acid surrounding them in a plastic case. The whole design is older than any poster's parents.

Yes, I'm talking about the battery. And what's the warranty / life expectancy of one of these?

How many of you have had electrical systems just completely cut out on you while driving? *raises hand*

Can you imagine getting in a brown-trouser moment, stabbing the brakes, trying to avoid the deer that just jumped in front of you, and the bloody electrical system takes a **** on you, robbing you completely of steering control and braking ability?




No thanks, I'll stick with my mechanical hydraulic brakes and direct link, gear driven steering, thank you very much!!

 

[siztenboots]

Yep , just look at the gearboxes that have this , how difficult can it be to swap cogs.

 

[Lowe]

Most of the late Clio 172's have throttle by wire rather than a basic cable setup. Guess what one of the most popular mods to gain throttle response is.. Yup, rip it out and put a basic cable in!

 

[ElRazur]

One thing to consider with FBW steering and braking -

What controls the electricity in your car? A bunch of lead plates with hydrochloric acid surrounding them in a plastic case. The whole design is older than any poster's parents.

Yes, I'm talking about the battery. And what's the warranty / life expectancy of one of these?

How many of you have had electrical systems just completely cut out on you while driving? *raises hand*

Can you imagine getting in a brown-trouser moment, stabbing the brakes, trying to avoid the deer that just jumped in front of you, and the bloody electrical system takes a **** on you, robbing you completely of steering control and braking ability?




No thanks, I'll stick with my mechanical hydraulic brakes and direct link, gear driven steering, thank you very much!!

Same arguement could be use for mechanical parts too, drive-by-wire imo is safe, it is just driver worried about change and the need to be in control
DBW will have less turning and mechanical parts with pulleys, etc hence more responsive and less likely to break down (that's my thinking).

 

[Mat]

Freaky...

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/pic.php?imagenum=6&carnum=1105

"Mercedes Benz launched this F200 concept at the 1996 Paris Motorshow. Among the most important innovations on board the F 200 Imagination was a trailblazing control system which permits the driver to control all movements of the car by means of so-called side-sticks located in the interior door trim and centre console of the coupé study. To steer the car, the driver moves the side-sticks to the left or right, for braking, he moves them backwards - and forwards for accelerating. Conventional controls or connecting elements such as a steering wheel, steering column and pedals are not to be found in the F 200 Imagination - all of the driver's commands are transmitted electronically. The experts refer to 'drive-by-wire'."

Full article:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=1105

And another:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1311549,00.html

 

[MrMoon]

my old C3 had FBW throttle and it messed up once and wouldnt let me accellerate they had to change the servo.

my new Mazda 3 sport also has this and so far its ok

 

[Enfield]

I think i'd stick to good old fashioned mechanical bits. I just don't trust computers.

 

[Dogbreath]

How about the driver adapting to the lack of feed back? Or better still get immerson to design a Vibra-steering* of some sort? Seriously i think it is all down to us adapting...

I don't think that adapting to a car with zero steering feedback is a clever or welcome idea. Have you ever driven on ice? It would be the same feeling, only all the time.

 

[Mickey_D]

Same arguement could be use for mechanical parts too, drive-by-wire imo is safe, it is just driver worried about change and the need to be in control
DBW will have less turning and mechanical parts with pulleys, etc hence more responsive and less likely to bring down (that's my thinking).

Direct mechanical control of steering and braking cannot be interrupted by one of the most unreliable components on a car - its electrical system!!

And as for mechanical parts and pulleys, how is the FBW system going to actually move the wheels left to right or apply the brakes? That's right, with a mechanical linkage!! So you're going from a mechanical input to an electrical comms unit to a mechanical output. How many points of failure are there in that system after 100,000 miles belonging to some chav holigan that drives like he stole it?

A lot more than there are in the current system......