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Equal Oppurtunity Forms - Job Applications

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Adam, 26 Jul 2006.

  1. Adam

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 8,954

    What are these all about? I have recieved a couple of these forms following job applications, most state they are optional and bear no influence on the success of the application. Whats the point then?
     
  2. Violent-J

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    PC rubbish
     
  3. Stringy

    Mobster

    Joined: 2 Aug 2004

    Posts: 4,286

    Location: The moon

    So that the bureaucrats have an easy way to count what demographics are applying to their job to see if they're reaching targets...

    edit: or given the ray of light posted below perhaps the complete opposite :D oh my ignorance


    On a different point, what is the point of having targets for recruitment (like in the Police), where they end up only recruiting gay arabian crossdressers as 'they are under-represented and the community can't relate'. I hate positive discrimination, just take the best person for the job!
     
    Last edited: 26 Jul 2006
  4. Visage

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    Its generally so that HR departments can ensure they're giving themselves every possible oppurtunity to recruit the best people for the job.

    To give you an example - if a company is based in an area with a high number of asian residents, but the proportion of asian candidates amongst those who apply for jobs is very low, then the company would probably want to know about this, since there may be some underlying reasons why asians do not wish to work for the company. This , in turn, may mean that they may be missing out on good candidates, thus putting them at a disadvantage.

    Knowing your market is just as important in recruitment as it is in commerce.

    Nothing to do with PC at all - its simply good business practice.
     
  5. Van_Dammesque

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 4 May 2004

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    Location: NE England

    Why? Positive discrimination is discrimination and it is PC BS.
    Having the ability to pick from the cream of the crop and not having (by law) to fullfil an ethnic quota is bad business practice because you can not assemble the best work force (which isn't dependent on skin colour, just people's abilities.) Instead you have to fill a percentage which people who are there for their skin colour and not abilities. (e.g. An asian has been given the job but Jonny whiteman had better qualifications but he has white skin so can't be employed :confused: )
     
  6. Visage

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    Positive discrimination would be if they used the information provided as part of the recruitment process.

    As clearly stated in the OP, in many cases they are both optional, and play no part in the selection process.

    Its nothing to do with PC.
     
  7. Van_Dammesque

    Wise Guy

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    Location: NE England

    So again why do they do it then? If it is not being used then it is a waste of resources and therefore bad business practice. Or it is being used, like the OP said some are optional not all.

    Surely the company; if short of good candidates, will continue to advertise the position until the right candiate is employed, what has that got to do with the colour of the interviewee's skin?
     
  8. Visage

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    But what if the best candidate doesnt apply for the job, due to some unknown cultural effect, for example?

    Can you see how companies would want to know that they may be missing out on a given group of potential candidates as a result of something like that?
     
  9. Adam

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 8,954

    Politics aside, is this something you would normally return? Afterall there is no way they know who has and hasn't returned the application as it is anonymous.
     
  10. Visage

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    Indeed. Every job I've ever applied for that have included such a form have also included a return envelope with nothing on either the form or the envelope to indicate which candidate the form has come from.
     
  11. Van_Dammesque

    Wise Guy

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    Location: NE England

    If it is a cultural effect then it is the candidates individual fault not the company.

    Anyhow, how does ticking an ethnicity box on an application form show correlation with cultural (or other) reasons though? Does the company go out and selectively advertise to the ethnic group? If so then again this is positive dicrimination otherwise the "normal" (ethnic-transparent) advertisment campaign would continue.
     
  12. Visage

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    But if the company can eliminate some unknown effect, and thus attract a wider range of condidates, then their chances of recruiting a high calibre candidate is higher than if the pool from which that recruit is picked is constrained by some unknown factor.

    What they would do would depend on the strength of the correlation, and suggestions as to its underlying cause. It may well be that the company decides that any action to correct the bias would be more harmful than leaving it in place.

    The point is that, without profiling, companies are in the dark as to how good their recruitment process is. And thats very rarely a good thing....
     
  13. Van_Dammesque

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 4 May 2004

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    Location: NE England

    So the company may then go out of their way to specifically advertise or campaign to an ethnic group, is that not positive discrimination? Why not advertise to all i.e. a carpet blanking advertising campaign? Why not advertise for good workers rather than good workers plus a certain skin colour? This would be the case if the company claims not to be discriminating?
     
  14. Visage

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    If a company advertises in, say the Pink Times as well as their usual outlets, is that discriminating?

    Of course not - its making their job oppurtunities known to a group that they may have identified as being under-represented in their interview candidates. It does not imply that a homosexual is more likely to get the job....its simply a matter of ensuring that they get the best possible people to apply for the position, regardless of any other factors.
     
  15. Van_Dammesque

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 4 May 2004

    Posts: 2,208

    Location: NE England

    No, but:
    If a company ONLY advertises in, say the Pink Times as well as their usual outlets, is that discriminating?
    Yes. It is not giving other groups a fair chance, which what I said previously, a carpet advertising campaign is better than directing advertising to a certain group for the sake of others, this is positive discrimination.

    Then if a company advertises to a ethnic group only (e.g. Arab Times (made up!)) then yes it is not advertising in the usual methods (i.e jobcentre or local papers or etc.....).

    You can not infer any correlations with just a tick box on an application form, sure you can speculate until the cows come home and act accordingly with no success. What if that bias was aimed toward non-whites? Would you be still defending the company?

    Why do you need a certain quota of ethnicity or sexual preference at the interview stage? What if the correlations turned out to be deteremental to that group? e.g. Asains apply then they are no good, so the company then advertises to other groups because they think the being asian is a correlation with not being a suitable candidate?
    If you are going to slect a candidate without discrimination at the interview stage, which is what you are suggesting, then why encourage and go to the lengths of advertising to a certain specific sub-group, wouldn't that be a waste of money and bad business sense?
    It strongly suggests that such pooling of information, which is irrevelent to interview stage or the actual job, is going to be used for discrimination (positive or not).