Eurofighter

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Ex Ronin has some very valid points. The F22 is a very impressive aircraft, at that price it should be, but compared to some of the older Sukhoi's, it still only features 2D thrust vectoring as compared to the Russian jets 3D thrust vectoring.

I do believe I read somewhere that ultimately the Typhoon can feature 3D thrust vectoring as well. The MOD have also left the door open for a cannon to be fitted to the Typhoon, should any campaign require it. The Typhoon is a modular design by default.

last but not least, lets not forget that Pilot training is still a very important factor perhaps *the most* important factor, The SHAR vs F15 victory is ample proof of this. The RAF and R-Navy pilots have some of the best training in the world, and that counts for a lot.
 
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last but not least, lets not forget that Pilot training is still a very important factor perhaps *the most* important factor, The SHAR vs F15 victory is ample proof of this. The RAF and R-Navy pilots have some of the best training in the world, and that counts for a lot.

Realistically, the performance envelopes of modern aircraft are so close together that its pilot skill and tactical situation alone that determine the outcome of a fight, although I'm not sure whether Eastern avionics provide any measurable advantage or disadvantage in a mock dogfight.
 
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Ex-RoNiN said:

Canopy was a static test, granted it went wrong but it was no major flaw, as for the structural problems with the wings, is not a problem with the design of the aircraft but the actual structural flaws of the glue, this is a problem for the manufacture of the glue as it would have been rated falsely, thus not a problem for the design of the raptor.

Ok now, got any more flaws?

KaHn
 
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Ex-RoNiN said:
The JSF program is likely to be cancelled if the yanks don't get over themselves and decide to share the source codes with the lead partners - if they don't, the lead partners will pull out, with the British being the first (straw himself has commented on this in the past).

Just posturing I think. I am 99% certain that after this little protest to save face we will accept our biatch role and buy it anyway. I would love to see us abandon the jsf and either navalise euofighter or buy Rafael instead but unfortunately we won't.
 
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KaHn said:
Canopy was a static test, granted it went wrong but it was no major flaw, as for the structural problems with the wings, is not a problem with the design of the aircraft but the actual structural flaws of the glue, this is a problem for the manufacture of the glue as it would have been rated falsely, thus not a problem for the design of the raptor.

Ok now, got any more flaws?

KaHn

Did you read the links properly :confused:

The canopy:

The canopy became stuck in the down and locked position and could not be opened manually after the pilot cycled the mechanism several times, following a pre-flight warning that the canopy was unlocked.

Structural flaws:

The structural flaws were identified after officials discovered cracks during fatigue testing, according to Raptor program office officials.

We don't know the types of tests, but this could mean that the projected elasticity/durability is much less than what was originally envisaged - design flaw.

In the plane’s forward boom, the point where the wing attaches to the fuselage, titanium was not properly heat-treated, according to Doug Karas, an Air Force spokesman.

(Expensive) manufacturing flaw.

In the aft boom, the point where the horizontal tail attaches to the fuselage, officials are planning modifications to strengthen the structure to get the plane through its planned 8,000-hour service life.

Design flaw, if modifications are required just to make it through the planned service life.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Raptor does not r0x0r. :p Did you also read this?

Service officials estimate the Raptor program requires an additional $2.7 billion — including the money needed to fix structural issues — between now and fiscal 2011. More than $600 million of that shortfall would go toward upgrades to the aircraft. About $580 million is needed for military construction because the Air Force had not identified which bases would house the Raptor when the Defense Department put together the fiscal 2007 budget.

The $72 billion program has been in development for about two decades and during that time has seen its share of difficulties. The Raptor has endured years of schedule slips and hundreds of millions of dollars of cost overruns, busting its congressionally mandated budget numerous times.

In 2003, service leaders raided the production budget to cover an $876 million cost overrun due to unexpected testing costs stemming from problems with the aircraft’s computer system.

Yeah damn the Eurofighter, the Raptor is sooooooooo much better and soooooo much better value for money! So far, its one big black hole, and the programs have the same age - both started development in the 80s...

Just posturing I think. I am 99% certain that after this little protest to save face we will accept our biatch role and buy it anyway. I would love to see us abandon the jsf and either navalise euofighter or buy Rafael instead but unfortunately we won't.

The Dutch and the Turks have also expressed concerns. Coupled with the fact that the F35 is too ugly to ever get the license to fly, and considering the huge problems its had in development so far, its not too unlikely a move IMO. Most likely scenario is that the yanks cave in.
 
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Visage said:
We could afford a lot more immigration officials if we didnt spend so much money on an overpriced useless national penis extension.

We could afford a lot more cool toys if we deported all illegal immigrants rather than putting them up in B&B's for years on end.

Guess we both look forward to the day when we can choose where our taxes go.
 
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my god... my mate was telling me that if you are any where near the radio mast on a warrior when its transmitting it can give you radiation burns... also they fitted warriors for the Saudis with some cannon they wanted and if you happen to be at the wrong end of the turrent when it fires you dont have a head left... he told me a few others... but he did say that thank god that the Saudis dont have that good health and saftey

I thought that the Euro Fighter was being fitted the thrust vectoring now to keep up??

and one of the main reasons that we are on aboard with the Yanks is because we have the best engine engineers in the world... Rolls Royce are making the engines for the JSF for VTOL... cause even though we really are not that good at business we kick ass when it comes to design and engineering

Stelly
 
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Mr Bulbous said:
I only wish they had called the Typhoon "the Spitfire" as had originally been suggested.

Would have been near impossible to sell it to the Germans then tho :p

We could afford a lot more cool toys if we deported all illegal immigrants rather than putting them up in B&B's for years on end.

Weren't all 7th of July bombers British, hence the illegal immigrant having no basis in reality :confused:

I thought that the Euro Fighter was being fitted the thrust vectoring now to keep up??

I heard its an option for Tranche 3 aircraft, but I may be wrong.
 
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Visage said:
The americans had a missile capable of jitting a target of 150km+ back in 1974.(The Phoenix)

We've taken 30 years to manage 2/3 of the performance......

It was also so huge that it had to have an aircraft designed around the system, and so hard to maintain it was retired years before the sole aircraft capable of carrying it was.

Sure, thats really an achievement worthy of replication.
 
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Ex-RoNiN said:
The Dutch and the Turks have also expressed concerns. Coupled with the fact that the F35 is too ugly to ever get the license to fly, and considering the huge problems its had in development so far, its not too unlikely a move IMO. Most likely scenario is that the yanks cave in.

Take a look at this

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1148287839455&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

The Americans are trying the same thing with the Israelis. They don't seem too impressed.
 
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Zefan said:
Sorry but this aircraft is and always will be seen as one of the most ridiculous wastes of military funds EVER (Excluding the Polaris). Didn't they admit that it's already stupidly out of date and that it can't fly in rain or something?

I'm confused, are you talking Eurofighter/Typhoon here? Your post is not clear. Of course Typhoon can fly in the rain ... Urban myth overload perhaps?
 
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Mr Bulbous said:
I'm confused, are you talking Eurofighter/Typhoon here? Your post is not clear. Of course Typhoon can fly in the rain ... Urban myth overload perhaps?

I thought that the Typhoon and EuroFighter are the same mate
 
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Ex-RoNiN said:
Would have been near impossible to sell it to the Germans then tho :p

That did cross my mind ;)


Ex-RoNiN said:
I heard its an option for Tranche 3 aircraft, but I may be wrong.

Yup, now you mention it, that's what I heard too, that also fits in with the Typhoon being a long term product and modular design, much more so than the F22 IMHO. lets face it, you cant tack much on to an inherently Stealthy airframe, even underwing pylons ... though the F22 has to bow to this feature if needed, but even then it will never have the versatility of the Typhoons ordnance capability.
 
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Mr Bulbous said:
That did cross my mind ;)




Yup, now you mention it, that's what I heard too, that also fits in with the Typhoon being a long term product and modular design, much more so than the F22 IMHO.


Yet it ended up being called the "Typhoon" another WWII RAF aircraft that almost certainly killed more Germans than the Spitfire.
 
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