Getting a bike, convince the parents....

Caporegime
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Nazbit said:
Nah no one has ever held a motorbike licence in my family before.

I dont know, its a case of do I take my test in the summer, get my licence and ride a 125 for a couple of years commuting to uni etc.

Or:

Do just wait until im 21 and take direct access and buy something bigger?

(and how do I convince my parents that its not as bad as they think)

no one in my family does either ;)

Your not limited to a 125 the only limit is 33bhp. You can get restrictors fitted on bigger bikes (although obviously not a 600 supersport or similar) so you can legally ride then. How about a 400cc trail bike or similar?

EDIT: You will also be able to ride any bike of any size after 2 years (im sure it used to be 3 years) regrdless of weather your over 21 or not.
 
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Soldato
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MNuTz said:
Riding safely doesnt mean that much when the majority of bike accidents are caused by car drivers.

Actually it isnt now, over 52% of bike claims are through riders who crash with no other vehicle involved...

Probably due to the increase in track days, but you can bet there are a lot of unclaimed accidents that are the riders sole fault... none that are a car drivers fault will go unclaimed..

So its probably closer 60% of bike accidents that are the riders sole fault...

:eek:
 
Soldato
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Thats true AMP,

My ideal scenario would be to take the test this summer, ride something small for a year or two. Using it to get to uni and the like, Then after the two years were up buy something bigger (I would be 20 then so I would get it a year earlier).

But this means me getting in to it pretty soon and buying a bike in a few months.

The parents are still a problem though....what do I do?
 
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I know that my uncle had to take a refresher course for his 600cc because he hadnt used one in years, no insurance company would touch him otherwise.

I agree that it stupid that you can take your direct access and jump onto an R1 or similar, i do think there should be a power restriction for at least a year upon completion of your DA. However, at 25 i dont want to spend a year riding a 125 or a 250.

Dr Who, the problem is that if you hit some fuel on the road on a bike you will probably come off. You've also got to take into account things that run out into the road, extreme weather etc. Its very easy to come off a bike. All these things would result in it being a rider only accident, however, how many of those 60% are actually down to rider error (ie, not paying attention or speeding) and not some other force being involved?
 
Soldato
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Motorbikes are just cars with all the safe bits taken out. I wouldn't bother doing motorbiking, its not that u'd be a bad driver, its that people don't see motorbikers. Just because some people haven't had accidents doesn't mean its safe. Take a look at some figures to do with accidents on motorbikes and fatalities, might show something? where can u get figures like this anyone?
 
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Motorcycle Fatalities Increasing: Read the October 2001full report "Fatal Single Vehicle Motorcycle Crashes" (DOT HS 809 360) from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA); a study recently conducted on motorcycle accidents and safety

Here's a summary of NHTSA DOT HS 809 360:

Single vehicle motorcycle crashes account for about 45 percent of all motorcyclist fatalities. More than 38,000 motorcyclists have died in single vehicle motorcycle crashes between 1975 and 1999. The report claims to provide data for insight into possible causes for these fatalities. According to the report, from 1990 through 1999, there were a total of 11,038 fatal single vehicle motorcycle crashes. During that same time period, there were an estimated 294,000 non-fatal single vehicle motorcycle crashes. Of these, an estimated 39,000 involved property damage only and 255,000 involved injuries. Motorcyclist fatalities in single vehicle motorcycle crashes decreased each year from 1990 to 1996, reaching a historic low of 937 in 1996 and again in 1997. In 1998, the fatalities increased to 1,042 (11.2 percent increase); in 1998 and in 1999 they increased to 1,140 (9.4 percent). The overall increase in motorcyclist fatalities from 1997 to 1999 was 203 (21.7 percent).

Report Conclusions: Findings from the FARS (Fatality Analysis Reporting System) data illustrate possible reasons for motorcyclist fatalities in single vehicle motorcycle crashes:

Helmet use among fatally injured motorcyclists below 50 percent
More motorcyclist fatalities are occurring on rural roads
High blood alcohol levels are a major problem among motorcycle operators
Half of the fatalities are related to negotiating a curve prior to the crash
Over 80 percent of the fatalities occur off roadway
Undivided roadways account for a majority of the fatalities
Almost two thirds of the fatalities were associated with speeding as an operator contributing factor in the crash
Almost 60 percent of motorcyclist fatalities occur at night
Collision with a fixed object is a significant factor in over half of the fatalities
Braking and steering maneuvers possibly contribute for almost 25 percent of the fatalities
More riders age 40 and over are getting killed
Almost one third of the fatally injured operators did not have a proper license
1998 Motorcycle Facts:
2,284 motorcyclists died and approximately 49,000 were injured in highway crashes in the United States.
Per mile traveled in 1998, a motorcyclist is approximately 16 times more likely to die in a crash than an automobile occupant. And 3x (times) as likely to be injured.
Head injury is a leading cause of death in motorcycle crashes.
In 1998, 46% of fatally injured motorcycle drivers were not wearing helmets at the time of the crash.
NHTSA estimates that motorcycle helmets reduce the likelihood of a fatality by 29% in a crash.
In 1998, 41% of all motorcycle drivers involved in fatal crashes were speeding.
Nearly one out of five motorcycle drivers (18%) involved in fatal crashes in 1998 was operating with an invalid license at the time of the collision.
Motorcycle drivers involved in fatal crashes in 1998 had higher intoxication rates than any other type of motor vehicle driver at 31%.
In 1998, 500 motorcyclists lives were saved due to helmet usage; 307 could have been saved.

So it's not all doom and gloom :eek: :D

From here: http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/crash.htm

DFT study about motorbike accidents: http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_035422.pdf
 
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Gaygle said:
Motorbikes are just cars with all the safe bits taken out. I wouldn't bother doing motorbiking, its not that u'd be a bad driver, its that people don't see motorbikers. Just because some people haven't had accidents doesn't mean its safe. Take a look at some figures to do with accidents on motorbikes and fatalities, might show something? where can u get figures like this anyone?

You talk rubbish, lad.

Motorbikes are nothing like cars. Go have a go on a motorbike, then you'll see what the fuss is about.
 
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MNuTz said:
Dr Who, the problem is that if you hit some fuel on the road on a bike you will probably come off. You've also got to take into account things that run out into the road, extreme weather etc. Its very easy to come off a bike. All these things would result in it being a rider only accident, however, how many of those 60% are actually down to rider error (ie, not paying attention or speeding) and not some other force being involved?

I think that question has been answered now, but very few of the accidents are down to oil spillage etc...

I am not anti biker, I have been riding bikes since I was 16, legally and illegally, and only got knocked off once (car hit my handle bars on a trail bike forcing me onto a patch of diesel)...

You just cant ignore the facts that a lot of riders DO ride them far to fast....

Very few stick as close to posted speed limits as car drivers (they both exceed, but bikes far greater, I know i did, and I was one of the slower riders in every group I went out in!).

As was said earlier, respect the machine, learn to cancel out survival instincts, treat everyone like a wally, and you can ride one safely...

:)
 
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Gaygle said:
Motorbikes are just cars with all the safe bits taken out. I wouldn't bother doing motorbiking, its not that u'd be a bad driver, its that people don't see motorbikers. Just because some people haven't had accidents doesn't mean its safe. Take a look at some figures to do with accidents on motorbikes and fatalities, might show something? where can u get figures like this anyone?

Judging by what you wrote, Im guessing you have never rode a proper bike before?
 
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Nazbit said:
well this thread was supposed to help me persuade my dad to let me take my bike test and get going on two wheels :eek:

You are 18 you can do WTF you like.

Sure you are living at their house, but you are a big boy, of you go book your lessons.
 
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atpbx said:
You are 18 you can do WTF you like.

Sure you are living at their house, but you are a big boy, of you go book your lessons.

I know, im tempted and if it comes down to that, dont worry, I will.

It would just be easier and more plesant if they were to accept it and give me their blessing, and so I want to try and talk them around first.

If I cant persuade them by the day my summer holiday starts, then im starting lessons anyway, things might get nasty though.
 

Bri

Bri

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Amp34 said:
I think some of you dont get the idea of the direct access test. The whole point of you not being able to do it til you are 21 is that you actually have experience on a motorbike before you get onto a 1000cc Race rep.

MNuTz said:
I agree that it stupid that you can take your direct access and jump onto an R1 or similar, i do think there should be a power restriction for at least a year upon completion of your DA. However, at 25 i dont want to spend a year riding a 125 or a 250.

Yet you can pass your car test & jump into a supercar the next day (funds permitting of course).

Don't say you would never get insurance, I got a quote the other day on a 1980 Testarossa, just out of interest you know. £3500 for a year, not that bad considering I passed my test 6 weeks ago & am 26.
 
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Bri said:
Yet you can pass your car test & jump into a supercar the next day (funds permitting of course).

Don't say you would never get insurance, I got a quote the other day on a 1980 Testarossa, just out of interest you know. £3500 for a year, not that bad considering I passed my test 6 weeks ago & am 26.

Yes i agree there are serious issues with both direct access and car licences, I think its stupid but it does save lives. The government should perhaps put a limit on the type of car you can have to but then it really is becoming a nanny state. Prehaps they should get rid of restricted licences on motorbike too, i dunno. If we carry on this could end up like a mini speakers corner. ;)
 
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Heh I can appreciate where your coming from.

Call me sad whatever but I'm over 30 and a few times I've considered a bike. My parents would pretty much disown me I think if I got one - not worth the agro :) My mum knows me too well and no doubt I would probably kill myself if I got a bike, but my dad rode for years and I think thats where the 'protective' nature comes from.

Good luck in trying to get one - I'm sticking to my tin box for now till I have a mid life crisis ;)
 
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There is no way you are going to sway your parents into thinking bikes are reasonably safe..

I'd try a different tact,
1. explain that it is something you really want to do, and that you are prepared to be sensible about it and know full well the risks involved
2. Show them you have found out what protective gear/training you need, and have budgeted for this.
3. Explaint the financial/time benefits of the bike, and how it will make life easier.
4. Explain that you know why they are against it, but that you do need to be allowed some room to involve a little bit of a calculated risk.
5. Tell them that with proper protective gear, and training, most fatalities are due to reckless riding/improper gear/alcohol, etc, etc, and you can be trusted to not do this type of thing, which greatly reduces your risk.

Whatever you do, don't just say "I'm 18, I can do WTF I like", that's exactly the response you'd expect from an immature spanner who would be a likely road-kill candidate..


I have a mate in work, that is 34, and he still daredn't tell his parents he has a bike due to his Mother openly saying she would disown him, he locks it in the Garage when then come around and hides all his gear.. such is the 'fear' of parents..
 
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Soldato
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Demon said:
There is no way you are going to sway your parents into thinking bikes are reasonably safe..

I'd try a different tact,
1. explain that it is something you really want to do, and that you are prepared to be sensible about it and know full well the risks involved
2. Show them you have found out what protective gear/training you need, and have budgeted for this.
3. Explaint the financial/time benefits of the bike, and how it will make life easier.
4. Explain that you know why they are against it, but that you do need to be allowed some room to involve a little bit of a calculated risk.
5. Tell them that with proper protective gear, and training, most fatalities are due to reckless riding/improper gear/alcohol, etc, etc, and you can be trusted to not do this type of thing, which greatly reduces your risk.

Whatever you do, don't just say "I'm 18, I can do WTF I like", that's exactly the response you'd expect from an immature spanner who would be a likely road-kill candidate..

Thanks, Sounds like good advice.

The thing that I thought of while reading it, lets say I go down that road, show them that I know of the risks and that I know how to minimise them as you say with the correct gear, careful riding etc,

What if I was to plan to do an advanced course after passing, like bike safe or something (dont know if this is any good) but perhaps this would help aswell because again it suggests that I know that there are risks, but want to minimise then and shows I am taking saftey seriously.

What do you think?

Can anyone recomend any advanced courses or post test training that would be good for this.

Cheers
 
Soldato
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Have a look at the Institute Of Advanced Motorists site;

http://www.iam.org.uk/

I'm sure if you were to tell your folks that you would make it a matter of priority to pass their advanced driving test for motorcycles, and maybe that you would not get a bigger bike until you had passed it, it would help sway them.

I've met up with my local IAM mororcycle group and they are a diverse bunch with a common interest and although they ride safely it doesn't eliminate the fun (a good lesson to learn).

As and when you do get a bike my top 2 tips would be;

1) Spend time on clear roads learning the capabilities of both yourself and your bike, and try at all times to ride well within these capabilities. There will be times you want to ride like an idiot, dont do this in the city where there are too many distractions for yourself and other road users to concentrate properly. Find yourself some decent A or B roads for lunacy and learn where the cameras and junctions are.

2) Treat every other road user as a deaf blind homicidal maniac that is out for your blood, always anticipate them doing what you'd least expect and make allowances for this.
 
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