Ghosts - The white floaty things that go oooooooo

[Unseul]

He just said "uhh Science" like that was the be all end all answer as if Science knows everything, does he post any links or anything else? Nope. And who said "uhh Ghosts"?

You'd already been given a link with a perfectly valid explanation for how it can be done. Your response was basically uhh supernatural. These things are not on equal footing. There's no good evidence of the super-natural. This is not a 50/50, maybe it's this, maybe it's that.

 

[Gerard]

You'd already been given a link with a perfectly valid explanation for how it can be done. Your response was basically uhh supernatural. These things are not on equal footing. There's no good evidence of the super-natural. This is not a 50/50, maybe it's this, maybe it's that.

Here we go again, show me where I specifically was given a link? I quoted a post a few pages back which drops me down to the bottom of the page to type a response which then brings me to the last page after submitting it. Maybe something was posted on page 3 or something, I don't know as I was addressing a specific post in the thread about a picture.

 

[Unseul]

Here we go again, show me where I specifically was given a link? I quoted a post a few pages back which drops me down to the bottom of the page to type a response which then brings me to the last page after submitting it. Maybe something was posted on page 3 or something, I don't know as I was addressing a specific post in the thread about a picture.

You quoted it, the link where it was shown how you can easily produce identical effects in the photos, with no special equipment or software.

 

[Gerard]

You quoted it, the link where it was shown how you can easily produce identical effects in the photos, with no special equipment or software.

Which only shows that's a way of duplicating the effect in the picture. It doesn't prove one way or the other that's what happened. So that's not saying "uhh it's definitely ghost" at all.

 

[Unseul]

Which only shows that's a way of duplicating the effect in the picture. It doesn't prove one way or the other that's what happened. So that's not saying "uhh it's definitely ghost" at all.

True, it doesn't. For that we can look at science. We can see that there's no verifiable evidence for ghosts, and plenty for camera trickery. There's no evidence that it wasn't done by the floating pink invisible elephants manipulating each molecule to trigger them in such a way as to form the pattern of a ghostly figure stood in the picture either, and yet neither of us seem to be willing to consider that as a valid option? Why not?

 

[Gerard]

True, it doesn't. For that we can look at science. We can see that there's no verifiable evidence for ghosts, and plenty for camera trickery. There's no evidence that it wasn't done by the floating pink invisible elephants manipulating each molecule to trigger them in such a way as to form the pattern of a ghostly figure stood in the picture either, and yet neither of us seem to be willing to consider that as a valid option? Why not?

Cute post, I take it you've never read through this thread :

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/foru...appened-to-you.18302302/page-45#post-32900953

There may well be explanations for a lot of it, but it's worth a read regardless.

 

[Gray2233]

Well done for quoting a post of mine, but I'm not sure what its relevance is here.

Tony is a very special individual.

Don't get upset when he does weird things, just let it slide.

Surely that all depends on which particular 'God' they believe in.

Stated this earlier myself, ghosts are relevant to Abrahamic under certain circumstances and other stuff such as Buddhism again depending on circumstance.

A number of people like to talk/joke about things they know literally nothing about.

Par the course for some.

 

[Lysander]

Tony is a very special individual.

Don't get upset when he does weird things, just let it slide.



Stated this earlier myself, ghosts are relevant to Abrahamic under certain circumstances and other stuff such as Buddhism again depending on circumstance.

A number of people like to talk/joke about things they know literally nothing about.

Par the course for some.

You have to remember that this is GD, and GD is not looking for the truth, but largely for lolz. I have made some quite serious posts in this thread, most of which have gone unreplied to. Unless GD can rip it apart and cause an 'epic lolz thread', they're not interested.

 

[Gray2233]

You have to remember that this is GD, and GD is not looking for the truth, but largely for lolz. I have made some quite serious posts in this thread, most of which have gone unreplied to. Unless GD can rip it apart and cause an 'epic lolz thread', they're not interested.

I have little experience of GD, but I was leaning toward what you've just confirmed.

I mostly keep to the tech related stuff.

Thanks for the heads up! lol...

 

[Lysander]

It's a lot more complicated than that with these kinds of experiences. We are actually describing over 90% of all the NDE experiences collated in the world. Given the amounts it would be irrational to conclude they were all lying. Furthermore statistical analysis has concluded it would be preposterous to argue this.

The particular type of experience I refer to is referred to as being more vivid than the life of the experiencer from its onset and in a number of cases I've looked at offered corroborating evidence. For example, some experiencers report and describe looking down at their bodies in surgery-having been pronounced brain dead-and described what was done and said by the surgeons and staff. Some have gone on to describe what was seen and heard in an adjoining room involving staff and at least one incident involved someone in theatre actually meeting up with a member of staff who died who asked the person having an NDE to pass a message on to her parents. In this case, the request was mentioned to another shocked member of theatre who confirmed the death of her colleague. The message was given to the parents who confirmed it's veracity along with an apology describing the circumstances which led to the death (of the deceased). More significantly the death of the deceased occurred at the same time the person who was asked to pass the message on was having the NDE so there was no way she could have known through normal means.

Thanks for this, as a result of the talk on NDEs yesterday I started going through some of these, absolutely fascinating, mostly the part about being able to experience the emotions others felt as a result of your own actions in a life review. Makes one think about one's own actions since apparently the emotions felt are so strong that people don't want to go through the review again in the same way, and they permanently alter their behavior after being given a 'second chance'.

This is one of my favourites:

https://iands.org/ndes/nde-stories/iands-nde-accounts/543-all-is-everything-everything-is-one.html

I hadn't just seen what I had done, but I felt and knew the repercussions of my actions. I felt the injury or pain of those who suffered because of my selfish or inappropriate behavior.

For example, four years earlier, a friend and I had gone down town to a nightclub. Once the dancing stopped and the bar closed, they served breakfast. My friend had ditched me. I was alone and in no condition to drive. About 2:30 a.m. a guy came in for breakfast, and I struck up a conversation with him. He was about 23, had just gotten off work, and was very nice. I was deliberately doing and saying anything to get him to agree to drive me in my car to the north end (about 35 miles) so I could be close to home. I invited him to a party, and he agreed. When we got to my friend's house in the north end, I told him to wait outside. I went in and hid, leaving him miles from home and not knowing anyone in the middle of the night. After a while he came to the door sort of pleading to speak with me; my friends shut him out. Fortunately, the friend who ditched me showed up minutes later, and the guy that she pulled up with agreed to give the guy who drove my car a ride back to the nightclub. I never gave this incident a moment of thought after it had happened. But, during the review of my life, I was grieved to see how totally selfish, thoughtless and downright cruel I had been. I felt his complete panic and fear, and his change as he became less trusting. I was sickened. I had such total guilt that I tried to pull my view away. I was being pounded with the fears, pain, injuries, and anger I had caused in others, and the repercussions that had been passed on and on.

[...]

As I waited, I remembered what I had forgotten, which was everything. I was astonished at the simplicity of why, what, who, where...all of it. I knew it all. I remember thinking that it is so weird that we don't remember any of it on the other side. It's so apparent, yet we cannot see it while living in the other form. At that very moment I likened it to an ant that could never perceive a human in its entirety, its complexity, or its completeness, yet we are right there to be seen if only the ant had the capacity.

 

[RxR]

What I found interesting was several cases of sudden fully formed (emergent behaviour) skills that the individual historically did not at all possess, nor possessed even moderate competence in their subparts prior to their sudden fully competent experience of them.

I only came across one case where an individual learnt / possessed a new word as a result. And even then, given the individuals IQ and prior learning of etymology, that new word which he didn't know prior and was communicated (and attributed) to him in that altered state of mind ("adarpercipient") wasn't much of a composition stretch from what he did know.

 

[Lysander]

What I found interesting was several cases of sudden fully formed (emergent behaviour) skills that the individual historically did not at all possess, nor possessed even moderate competence in their subparts prior to their sudden fully competent experience of them.

Indeed, such was the case with my ex-gf as I cited earlier, who started speaking another language while half asleep. There were no prior indications of her ability for bilingualism, but clearly - maybe as a result of the, by then, large amount of East Asian films we had seen, her mind had been able to absorb and process some of that information and apply it, and she was able to access this part of her subconscious when half asleep [I think when we formally learn a language, we just relearn things in a way which our conscious mind can access].

It's like seeing astral spiders, which is terrifying if you ever have, but at that point in time your mind is halfway between states and you are just accessing another part of the universe which you can't normally do. The only advantage of this event happening is that if it happens again you know what's going on and it's far less scary.

I only came across one case where an individual learnt / possessed a new word as a result. And even then, given the individuals IQ and prior learning of etymology, that new word which he didn't know prior and was communicated (and attributed) to him in that altered state of mind ("adarpercipient") wasn't much of a composition stretch from what he did know.

I cannot find any Google entry for "adarpercipient" - can you link to the story or elaborate on it, please?

 

[RxR]

@Lysander Hmm. There used to be a Google search result for that ("adarpercipient") term in 2017 when I interviewed the case. Neither I nor he had ever heard of it either. Google must have adjusted their database. The only online mention I could find of it at the time (via a straight-forward google search) was on a site in India.

It simply means (from that reference) 'far seeing', 'far-sighted'. Which happened to correspond with the description of his experience. Also, he was an analyst by predilection and occupation - you can see the fit of the epithet. The case notes are unpublished (as yet).

 

[RxR]

One case that comes to mind a bit like your girlfriend, Lysander, was that of an individual suffering chronic near-debilitating pain. Who, despite never having had fluid motor coordination nor competent musical time sense (dis-synchrony) - couldnt match a beat (due to a genetic neurological impairment), was suddenly able to dance (while conscious) fluidly without cognitive effort in real time to the beat of a complex composition for more than 3 minutes.

He had had no prior dance training, dance competence, no interest in dance, nor had he received pain or muscle rehabilitation. Obviously, we all see others dance in the media. However, seeing and doing are 2 different things. An interesting thing, he'd never heard the particular music piece before - therefore real time choreography, musical interpretation, and skilled physical synchrony emerged whole in a single instant. An emergent musical motor skill.

Obviously, it also had a therapeutic use. It was a spontaneously appearing contradictory compensatory remedy for an existing impairment.

So where's the ghost-like angle, you may be wondering?

 

[RxR]

...Ctd - the ghost-like angle was that he had a sense/ imagined he was being coached / bodily-moved with his consent in real-time during the dance by a non-present (objectively non-present, invisible) entity. A female, no less, aged 29, from Israel, he'd never known or met, who was also a nurse.

Edit. Why his mind manufactured the invisible-person (sudden invisible helper / invisible friend) association is interesting. Like Nash, the individual was socially isolated, and under significant social stress. We took his report of her claim of being alive, and living at a specific street number address in a specific suburb of Israel with a pinch of salt. Though a quick address check proved the address existed, as you might expect.

He gave her full name. Her surname was Yetzirah, "mind". For those of hebrew-qabalistic numeric semantic interest, age 29, the wisdom of illusion.

Last thing, he also curiously gave us the name of her father, which she insisted he know. It was (if I recall correctly) Yadz (or Yatz) Yetzirah. I interpreted that to mean the plural of "yod": "I", the I's or eyes of the mind.

 

[Kelt]

Two possibilities exist: either there is life after death or there is not. Both are equally terrifying.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Tony is a very special individual.

Don't get upset when he does weird things, just let it slide.

You are a very special individual too.

 

[Akagi]

I think this thread is a contender for best thread title in September.

 

[Lysander]

Two possibilities exist: either there is life after death or there is not. Both are equally terrifying.

I find neither terrifying. I wish I could find Alan Watt's video on nothingness beyond death, but the one I originally viewed was removed from Youtube. But I have found a transcription:

I am absolutely fascinated with what it would be like to go to sleep and never wake up. Many people think it would be like going into the dark forever or being buried alive. Obviously it wouldn’t be like that at all! Because we know darkness by contrast, and only by contrast, with light.

I have a friend, a girl, who is very intelligent and articulate, who was born blind and hasn’t the faintest idea what darkness is. The word means as little to her as the word light. So it is the same for you: you are not aware of darkness when you are asleep.

If you went to sleep, into unconsciousness for always and always, it wouldn’t be at all like going into the dark; it wouldn’t be at all like being buried alive. As a matter of fact, it would be as if you had never existed at all! Not only you, but everything else as well. You would be in that state, as if you had never been. And, of course, there would be no problems, there would be no one to regret the loss of anything. You couldn’t even call it a tragedy because there would be no one to experience it as a tragedy. It would be a simple – nothing at all. Forever and for never. Because, not only would you have no future, you would also have no past and no present.

[...] the state of nothingness makes me think that the only thing in my experience close to nothingness is the way my head looks to my eye, and then behind my eye there isn’t a black spot, there isn’t even a hazy spot. There’s nothing at all! I’m not aware of my head, as it were, as a black hole in the middle of all this luminous experience. It doesn’t even have very clear edges. The field of vision is an oval, and beyond this oval of vision there is nothing at all. Of course, if I use my fingers and touch I can feel something behind my eyes; if I use the sense of sight alone there is just nothing there at all

For life after death, overwhelmingly nearly all the discussion on life after death has been positive - that it is a positive, enlightened, enlightening place filled with love and warmth.

I say nearly all, because:

The doctor rushed in my room, pulled the staples and proceeded to rip open my partially healed gut with his hands. This decisive, brutal action probably saved my life. (Most doctors deserve every penny.) I saw pus fly 2 feet in the air before I passed out, again.

Next thing I know I'm floating above the bed and could see myself lying there gutted as a deer with a brownish goo of pus and blood all over the nice white sheets.

An ethereal being with a no-nonsense countenance firmly grabbed my shoulder and proceeded to take me down a long rough-hewn vertical tunnel. It stunk, was hot and the air was void of oxygen. The sounds of anguish and filthy dialogue are indescribable. We hit bottom and were standing in wiggling worms up to my ankles; the stench and heat, oh the stench.

My eyes adjusted in the blackness and there, what looked like something growing out of the side wall of the cave, was a pathetic, defeated-looking black angel. It must have been there a long time as the mineral deposits encased it almost to the elbows. Its arms were together as if it had been handcuffed. It slowly glanced up at us then looked away. I actually felt sorry for it.

https://iands.org/research/nde-rese...n-visits-hell-hole-after-dying-of-sepsis.html

I have no idea why this man ended up in this place, but seeing as he was in the military, there may be a causal relationship there. It's very difficult to say without speculation though - but murdering a large amount of people might influence the place where one ends up. That said, a lot of people don't want to kill in the military, but we don't know this man's situation so one can only speculate.

...Ctd - the ghost-like angle was that he had a sense/ imagined he was being coached / bodily-moved with his consent in real-time during the dance by a non-present (objectively non-present, invisible) entity. A female, no less, aged 29, from Israel, he'd never known or met, who was also a nurse.

Edit. Why his mind manufactured the invisible-person (sudden invisible helper / invisible friend) association is interesting. Like Nash, the individual was socially isolated, and under significant social stress. We took his report of her claim of being alive, and living at a specific street number address in a specific suburb of Israel with a pinch of salt. Though a quick address check proved the address existed, as you might expect.

He gave her full name. Her surname was Yetzirah, "mind". For those of hebrew-qabalistic numeric semantic interest, age 29, the wisdom of illusion.

Last thing, he also curiously gave us the name of her father, which she insisted he know. It was (if I recall correctly) Yadz (or Yatz) Yetzirah. I interpreted that to mean the plural of "yod": "I", the I's or eyes of the mind.

This is one of the most interesting posts I've ever read on OCUK. What is your profession, are you in music therapy? You must at least involved in health and rehabilitation in some way.

The idea of being "guided" I find interesting. For the last few years I have become increasingly convinced that there are such things as guardian angels and that we all have one. Some of these seem to be 'better' than others to the extent which they 'allow' people to 'hurt' themselves or others - that said, I don't know if that's the right way to term it, it's probably more accurate to say that they decide what level of control to implement based on the life/incarnation decisions that soul has taken. The metric of decision seem to be some universal form of accepted good, but that's about all I can say about that.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me that the Hindus have the idea of karma and maya [the universe as an illusion] correct. I find it difficult to believe that here, in the 21st century, we are the most spiritually enlightened we have ever been. If anything the opposite would seem more appropriate.

 

[Unseul]

For the guy who ended up in a bad place, I strongly suspect that given that smell is often considered the strongest/deepest sense, and he'd just had a ton of pus come out of his stomach, and had the tubes that normally contain faeces, along now with pus, ripped open, that stench would have had a strong effect on what his addled mind was experiencing. I don't think it's chance that he's repeatedly talking about the smell (and he'd no doubt have been feverish too with a lot of rot going on inside his body).