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Gun crime, knife crime, pimps, hoes and drugs

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Merlin5, 8 Mar 2010.

  1. Merlin5

    Capodecina

    Joined: 17 Aug 2009

    Posts: 16,346

    Location: Finchley Central, London

    Why do people insist on being such diplomats, saying it's not a black thing and that it's evenly spread amongst all races? All I ever hear almost every day in the news is some report of a murder or drugs crime which always happen in areas that I know ARE predominantly black. Why do people say that gangster rap is just music and has no influence on what is happening on our streets? What complete BS! Of course hiphop and rap has influenced, and still influences gang crime. Anyone can see that. This whole phenomenon seems to have come from the unfortunate trousers hanging from the knees 'role models' of the US and taken hold of the black kids in the UK. Why is it that by comparison you rarely hear of asian crime? It goes on, sure, but you don't hear of it to the same extent and there's no good reason why it wouldn't be reported. Why is it that asian people work really hard and build businesses just like the jews did and still do, and do well for themselves while black people don't really seem to do much of any great significance? We can't keep blaming being poor as the reason since many people from other ethnic minorities and poverty stricken backgrounds have found their way out, and legally. I'd suggest it's lack of ambition, lack of integrity, laziness and a desire for the quick and easy and illegal route to the bling.

    NO, I would NEVER, EVER support a party like the bnp, not in a million years. I'm simply stating my opinion as this gang culture and prolific incidents of crime anger me. I just want to see the black community as a whole do something that gives me some great admiration for them outside of the 100 metre sprint and freestyling.
     
  2. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 49,589

    Location: Plymouth

    Because most people understand that correlation and causation are not the same thing.

    The problems you describe aren't racial, in the US or the UK, but correlate in a much more causative way across all races with poverty and upbringing dramatically increasing the rates of such crimes.

    The fact that ethnic minorities are over-represented in the high risk crime groupings then becomes the issue.

    That's not being diplomatic or PC, it's understanding what the statistics actually show...
     
  3. Gaidin109

    Mobster

    Joined: 12 Jul 2009

    Posts: 4,878

    I like Gangsta rap, and I am neither black or a gangbanger. The OP is just one big stereotype.
     
  4. Baboonanza

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 10 Nov 2009

    Posts: 1,099

    Location: London

    Because other people aren't racists?

    Crime and deprivation are purely linked to socio-economic factors. I'm no lover of gangster rap, but even that is a result - not a cause - of poverty and lack of opportunity. In this country the biggest indicators of an ethnic groups relative success appear to be when they arrived, how long they've been here, and to the originating culture (I think it's a reasonable generalisation to say that East-Asian culture emphasis things that are useful to sucess in the modern West more than say, sub-sharan Africa).

    Skin colour has no influence on this, and considering the vast difference between the communities of recent North African immigrants and the much older Afro-Carribean residents 'Black' doesn't even make much sense as a label in this country.
     
    Last edited: 8 Mar 2010
  5. The Running Man

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 35,639

    Location: block 16, cell 12

    wow

    are you living in the 1980s or something? i know a good number of hard working people. there are some of african and some of asian descent within that number.

    but if you look around there seems to be a disparity of affect by regional location.

    for example, london is more impacted by certain groups... and the midlands/north by another group completely.

    this is exemplified by areas such as brixton in london and by places like oldham and bradford in the north. completely contrasting local population breakdown but the crimes are usually similar...
     
  6. Gaidin109

    Mobster

    Joined: 12 Jul 2009

    Posts: 4,878

    Where I live the main instigators of criminal activity are young white males, this is because I live in an area with a low minority demographic.

    In areas such as Brixton where the demographic is predominately Black then of course it would show that the majority of crime is perpetrated by black people, and the same with Asians in say, Bradford, for example.

    So as much as I am suprised, I, for once, am in agreement with Nickg.
     
  7. regulus

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Aug 2006

    Posts: 9,880

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    I find it hard offering new thoughts on this as it's been discussed here so many times in the past. I can only echo what Nickg and Baboonanza said.

    To the OP. Is this problem also prevalent amongst black kids/people that live in middle class areas and have employment, relative material wealth and a good future? I'll watch you fumble around for an answer for a few hours before answering the question for you.
     
    Last edited: 8 Mar 2010
  8. The Running Man

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 35,639

    Location: block 16, cell 12

    dont worry, the longer you post, the more it will happen. i play the percentages game!

    i think the real analysis is how frequently crimes are committed and how this is linked to the density of the local population...

    i.e are these areas crime 'hotspots' that offer crime figures far in excess of similar socio economic areas NOT inhabited by ethnic minorities. Thus indicating problems with the people specifically inhabiting them...

    and if there are, what do you do ti fix it? are some local populations 'unfixable' and too fixated with crime/easy money to be rehabilitated to meet the standards of other areas?
     
  9. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Apr 2006

    Posts: 16,414

    Location: London

    It's a long known that Blacks are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime in the country, the police know this fully well. But the police are afraid of saying it because lefty liberals will just yell 'racist' without thinking. Hell, it only took 4 posts in this thread for it to happen.

    Come-on. Every time you hear of a rape or stabbing, the chances are at least 60% that the suspect is black, but they only make up 10% of the population
     
  10. regulus

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Aug 2006

    Posts: 9,880

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    Oh hello you.

    We're discussing WHY this happens, not questioning IF it happens.
     
  11. The Running Man

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 35,639

    Location: block 16, cell 12

    i m not sure about your statistics, they sound made up - but we will never get past racism until we can call people what they are...

    for instance in a boxing match, where 2 fighters are wearing similar coloured shorts but one is white and one is black, why cant the commentator use the physical attributes to distinguish the fighter? because it is seen as racist if he does... yet it could be the biggest differentiating feature...

    one person could be small, one tall.. these are physical appearance differences and the commentator could use them... same with hair colour, or physique...why not skin colour? infact i have heard commentators say that one fighter may look more athletic than another, or be taller, or have a longer reach and use this to describe which fighter they are talking about...

    it is this 'fear' which is holding us back - stopping people from saying and doing things that need to be done. we need to respect that people are different, from different backgrounds - with different outlooks in life as well as differing motivators.

    when we begin to understand this and take appropriate action - without pretending that everyone is actually a clone of someone else, only then IMO can we combat this kind of localised behaviour and racism as a whole.
     
  12. Baboonanza

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 10 Nov 2009

    Posts: 1,099

    Location: London

    1- I'm not even sure this is true nationwide
    2- Ethnic communities are also disproportionatly poor and live in deprived areas, therefor commit more crime. How many times does this have to be said - its not because they are Black, its because they are poor!
    3- The tabloid press much prefer to blow up a story when it's an ethnic minority/immigrant, ensuring that crimes by non-whites get more press coverage
     
  13. The Running Man

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 35,639

    Location: block 16, cell 12

    is that true? i said above we need to compare similar socio economic groups from different backgrounds and see if the crime rates, plus type of crime committed remains consistent amongst them.

    but then you need to look at wider considerations - such as why these areas are disproportionately poor, and is this similarly replicated across different ethnicities..

    for example in this country we have large numbers of different groups:

    Nigerians,
    Pakistanis,
    Indians,
    Eastern Bloc (Ukraine, Poland, Romania)

    do they all live in a similar level of poverty? do they all contribute the same level of crime?

    without distinguishing between them it is a difficult problem to isolate and fix.
     
  14. Baboonanza

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 10 Nov 2009

    Posts: 1,099

    Location: London

    The problem is that this isn't always true in the real world. Maybe in a few decades this will be less problematic, but there are still many people alive who were brought up when racism was acceptable and having these rules is still necessary.

    The police stop and search example is interesting. If the statistics say that most criminals in the area are black, then surely black people should be stopped and search more than white? But given the history of racism in the police a very careful line has to be walked.

    After all, it wasn't long ago that you could be stopped on 'suspition of being black and driving a nice car'. Many would say you still can.
     
  15. Yas786

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 48,694

    Location: All over the world...

    This...i like Rnb, hip hop etc etc..and neither am i black but i iz asian and muslim...go figure eh??...next someone will be telling me that as a muslim i should be stoned to death for listening to such explicit rap lyrics:p
     
  16. Baboonanza

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 10 Nov 2009

    Posts: 1,099

    Location: London

    True, I agree with you. I kind of regret the sentence you quoted, because it's never that simple.

    In this country I would guess that when people refer to 'Blacks' they generally mean people of Afro-Carribean descent, many of whom arrived in the 1950s and settled in places like Brixton. These people arrived poor in a period when Britain's economy was depressed and were subjected to racism that also prevented economic success. Clearly this community does have particular problems, but saying 'it's because they're Black' or even 'it's because they're from the Carribean' just isn't the case.

    As always, the solution to crime is to give people education and economic opportunities. Giving ethnic minorites jobs doesn't go down well with the Right though, and it's more difficult than just giving money to police to chuck people in prison.
     
  17. regulus

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Aug 2006

    Posts: 9,880

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    *empties another bucket of fuel onto the fire*

    Perhaps multiculturalism don't work then?
     
  18. Baboonanza

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 10 Nov 2009

    Posts: 1,099

    Location: London

    Clearly not. Afterall, London had Irish slums in the 1800s and look at the coutry now! Gone to the dogs it has!
     
  19. regulus

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Aug 2006

    Posts: 9,880

    Location: Wellington, NZ

    I'll rephrase. Perhaps black and white don't mix? Who is it that said when two ethnic groups live side by side, one always end up dominating the other?

    PS,

    yes, I'm bored of constantly seeing and having this debate the past 15 years and seeing no change in attitudes, so I'm speaking without watching my words and it wouldn't make a hoot of difference since people have their minds made up on this issue already.
     
  20. Baboonanza

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 10 Nov 2009

    Posts: 1,099

    Location: London

    Unfortunately this seems to be human nature. People naturally like other people that are more like themselves, and while it's easy to see past this on an individual basis it's more difficult with groups. Tribalism in other words.

    As an example, I watched 'My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' last night? (OMG it was awesome :) ), and while I have sympathy for the prejudice they suffer and all the people on it seemed very nice, if a touch dim/naive, I just could not avoid thinking 'oh my god - it's full of chavs!'.

    OTOH, to strive to be better than your animalistic limitations is also human nature, so maybe hope is not impossible.
     
    Last edited: 8 Mar 2010