Hamilton hatred

[fez]

I wasn't trying to make out if you were deliberately misleading people. Just the first post made it seem like she herself was guilty of any wrong doing and I don't think that's fair.

Yeah, from what I can tell, she was completely innocent in the whole thing.

I don't envy the police over there (oh here for that matter) but I do believe we should be holding these supposedly trained individuals to a higher standard than Joe Public. If what is being said about the police not saying who they are is true, in a country full of guns I can't really blame her current boyfriend for firing shots in self defence.

They should be but I think their job is borderline impossible. Hindsight is 20/20 and when guns are involved, you don't have that luxury of benefit of the doubt. There are some very clear cut cases of police being nutters and they should be dealt with severely. The police need to change their MO completely in some areas but it seems like its always been a case of "the job is hard and dangerous but we got your back when you **** up".

Not that I disagree with you (If he was up there with a Vote Labour/Conservative/Liberal t-shirt I'd agree it has no place) but I don't think this was that political. Arrest doesn't mean just lock them up in jail with no trial. But it is crazy that these guys get to walk around free.

I'm not sure. The idea of arresting people and keeping them locked up is due to their danger to society and the danger from these cops is small.

People are citing one reason for disliking him is due to his success. If, or more than likely when, he becomes the most successful, I expect the vitriol to increase tenfold. And whilst these bitter people get all sour and criticise him for; 'weird' fashion, his 'rapper' style, that he hangs around with celebrities or his social views there will be a very good chance he will be sat at the top of all the meaningful statistics for a while.

And that makes me happy.

I think its hard to say why people like or dislike Hamilton. Fantastic driver but I do think hes a bit of a knob. Same for Novak Djokovic. Arguably in the top few tennis players ever but hes is a complete ****. I think its a little oversimplified to say that people don't like him because of his success. In general the most popular sports people are the most well liked. If they aren't then there is usual a reason beyond jealousy.

 

[fez]

Well that's pretty much what the protests are starting with isn't it? That isn't really happening, just the usual 'oh we've had an internal investigation and sacked a few people' - it's only following pressure from the protests that anything else is even being considered, despite a woman being shot 5-8 times after 20+ rounds were discharged into what sounds like her entire house.

Its hard to say because a lot of people will not be happy until anyone remotely involved has lost their job and been thrown in prison.

Some people can't accept that:

A) Some rules are not correct but they are the rules and if someone hasn't broken them they can't be punished.
B) The public don't have all the information and asking the family or the victim for their account doesn't mean they are being entirely truthful or that what they believe to be the truth is the actual truth.

 

[Kenai]

Its hard to say because a lot of people will not be happy until anyone remotely involved has lost their job and been thrown in prison.

Some people can't accept that:

A) Some rules are not correct but they are the rules and if someone hasn't broken them they can't be punished.
B) The public don't have all the information and asking the family or the victim for their account doesn't mean they are being entirely truthful or that what they believe to be the truth is the actual truth.

Until it's actually being investigated as a potentially criminal act rather than an internal work misconduct issue you'll never find any of that out.

Plenty of people won't be happy whatever the outcome, you're right, but people shouldn't need to protest just to get a proper investigation even spoken about in the first place.

 

[pallys]

Watch the disdain ramp up when/if he takes win #92 and title #7

And I can't wait.

Yes haters gonna hate.
He's damned if he does damned if he doesn't.
He knows that too and he actually doesn't care anymore what people think, there was a time he did and stayed silent.

It's gonna be funny to watch and know people are gonna be seething when he breaks those records.

 

[Slam62]

It was a no knock warrant in the middle of the night. Her ex-BF was a drug dealer and she was probably thinking it was someone there to attack them. I assume she was disoriented. Who knows. Either way, the police did their job and if you want to look into the laws that allow no knock warrants in the middle of the night thats fine. If you want to look into gun laws that fine. Hating on the police as a whole is pretty in vogue in the US right now though.

America is a strange place that its quite hard for us to understand. If I was woken by the police in the middle of the night I wouldn't have a gun and I wouldn't have thought the police would either. Its a mess.

Yes I agree,
If she opened fire it was only ever going to end one way, whether the build up was appropriate or not. However I presumably it was a dodgy area and no knock warrants exist because either the police would get massacred or the person would dispose of the evidence or leg it.

If you fire a gun first at someone it's going to be bad, unless you kill them all. IMHO it was a particularly inappropriate case to highlight in the way he did and showed a certain detachment.

 

[Slam62]

Yes haters gonna hate.
He's damned if he does damned if he doesn't.
He knows that too and he actually doesn't care anymore what people think, there was a time he did and stayed silent.

It's gonna be funny to watch and know people are gonna be seething when he breaks those records.

I just think he is tarnishing his own character with this stuff, it's a shame especially as he is driving so well. (Or appears to be)

 

[fez]

Yes I agree,
If she opened fire it was only ever going to end one way, whether the build up was appropriate or not. However I presumably it was a dodgy area and no knock warrants exist because either the police would get massacred or the person would dispose of the evidence or leg it.

Its supposedly to stop evidence being destroyed mainly. I understand the reason but its just asking for trouble with a country full of guns. Especially when drugs and money are involved.

A house in my road had the door kicked in during the night by a bunch of guys who proceeded to kick the **** out of one of the occupants and smashed up his car. I assume he was in their bad books for some reason. If guns were involved that might not have just been a hospital visit for him/the invaders.

IMHO it was a particularly inappropriate case to highlight in the way he did and showed a certain detachment.

There is no real logic to the cases that are the flashpoints. Right time and right coverage basically. The George Floyd one is another case that isn't exactly a textbook case either. They are a rallying cry. Specific examples are much easier to focus on than a general issue with the police.

 

[Junglist]

Yeah, from what I can tell, she was completely innocent in the whole thing.

I suppose her guilt is that she was with a drug dealer. But that's a misjudgement of character more than anything else.

They should be but I think their job is borderline impossible. Hindsight is 20/20 and when guns are involved, you don't have that luxury of benefit of the doubt. There are some very clear cut cases of police being nutters and they should be dealt with severely. The police need to change their MO completely in some areas but it seems like its always been a case of "the job is hard and dangerous but we got your back when you **** up".

I'm not sure. The idea of arresting people and keeping them locked up is due to their danger to society and the danger from these cops is small.

Yeah people protect their own and I suppose if you felt like your employer didn't have your back especially in a field where your life could be on the line, no one would work for them. But I just don't like that they're walking free when if it wasn't a police member that did such a thing they'd be locked up. It's crazy that they tried to tie her boyfriend on attempted murder but a bit of sense was used and it was dismissed.

At this point, her life has gone and it has been wasted but justice or not, it wont bring her back. What they could/should do is look into the laws and see if they're still fit for purpose. At least the death would then mean something and hopefully prevent this happening again.

I think its hard to say why people like or dislike Hamilton. Fantastic driver but I do think hes a bit of a knob. Same for Novak Djokovic. Arguably in the top few tennis players ever but hes is a complete ****. I think its a little oversimplified to say that people don't like him because of his success. In general the most popular sports people are the most well liked. If they aren't then there is usual a reason beyond jealousy.

Oh I'm sure people do have some genuine reasons to dislike the man but you'd sometimes think that Hamilton himself has slept with the wives of the disgruntled. It's just the petty reasons I always find a bit nonsensical (hair, dress style, rap music etc)

Yes haters gonna hate.
He's damned if he does damned if he doesn't.
He knows that too and he actually doesn't care anymore what people think, there was a time he did and stayed silent.

It's gonna be funny to watch and know people are gonna be seething when he breaks those records.

Yeah and I'm glad he's now speaking up but I'm even more glad he's breaking record after record.

I just think he is tarnishing his own character with this stuff, it's a shame especially as he is driving so well. (Or appears to be)

How is he tarnishing his own character? If anything I think driving the way he has and tackling causes the way he has at the same time is going to enhance his career. He's clean on the track, tries to be even cleaner off the track by putting his money where his mouth is (THC , X44 or only driving electric cars ) and speaking up on social issues.

I'm sure there are those who wish he'd just 'shut up and drive' but doing nothing would tarnish his career a whole lot more than what he is currently doing.

 

[RoboCod]

People are citing one reason for disliking him is due to his success. If, or more than likely when, he becomes the most successful, I expect the vitriol to increase tenfold. And whilst these bitter people get all sour and criticise him for; 'weird' fashion, his 'rapper' style, that he hangs around with celebrities or his social views there will be a very good chance he will be sat at the top of all the meaningful statistics for a while.

And that makes me happy.

I think its hard to say why people like or dislike Hamilton. Fantastic driver but I do think hes a bit of a knob. Same for Novak Djokovic. Arguably in the top few tennis players ever but hes is a complete ****. I think its a little oversimplified to say that people don't like him because of his success. In general the most popular sports people are the most well liked. If they aren't then there is usual a reason beyond jealousy.

I'm of the same view as fez really. He's one of the greatest drivers ever, but I simply think he's a massive nob. Right from his cringe fake American accent to his condescending self righteous preaching. Sure, state you support the fight against racism but fml, shut up and race, please, you're one of the most out of touch black privileged persons on the planet.

For me, Schumacher will always be the better driver, even when his stats are beaten. At least he just cracked on with what everyone put him there to do. He didn't think of himself as anything more than a race car driver. Hamilton thinks of himself of more than that.

 

[Junglist]

I'm of the same view as fez really. He's one of the greatest drivers ever, but I simply think he's a massive nob. Right from his cringe fake American accent to his condescending self righteous preaching. Sure, state you support the fight against racism but fml, shut up and race, please, you're one of the most out of touch black privileged persons on the planet.

For me, Schumacher will always be the better driver, even when his stats are beaten. At least he just cracked on with what everyone put him there to do. He didn't think of himself as anything more than a race car driver. Hamilton thinks of himself of more than that.

So I presume you also think Ali should've shut up and stuck to fighting?

I find it funny that he has to be one of the most out of touch black people. Yeah he's rich now but it's not like he was born a millionaire. Pretty sure he knew what it was like growing up

 

[chroniclard]

Schumacher had no need to speak out as he had all the privilege already.

 

[bazzabear]

Interestingly, I think that's the first time a possible cause has been raised so far:
Simply annoyance that he is overtaking the records of the persons favourite driver.

The idea that it tarnishes your legacy to stand up to racism, but doesn't tarnish your legacy to have several examples of having bare-face cheated though...

 

[Slam62]

So I presume you also think Ali should've shut up and stuck to fighting?

I find it funny that he has to be one of the most out of touch black people. Yeah he's rich now but it's not like he was born a millionaire. Pretty sure he knew what it was like growing up

There are an awful lot of good causes that he has been involved with in the past, he didn't feel the need to take the knee or wear a t shirt on the podium for them. This particular choice was just stupid and he has got carried away with himself. Very sad.

I pay sky and by proxy Hamilton money so I can watch motorsport not to watch the news, his save the planet thing beggars belief as well. When he started in f1 he new which side his bread was buttered but now his ego has taken over. Understandable in the circumstances but far from classy.

I wanted him to beat Schumachers records but now I wish he'd do it and go away, give George Russell the drive, but oh no he's the wrong colour and got white privilege.
I think he has tarnished his image but in a few years it'll all be forgotten. He'll be turned into a Senna like legend.
There all good but not gods.

 

[Junglist]

He's been in F1 since 2007. Expecting someone to be the same after 14 years is just 14 years wasted growth. When he came into the sport he wasn't the star he is now so he didn't have the opportunity to speak up. Now he has so why shouldn't he?
But nah, you pay Sky so he should just shut up because you don't like it.

Sadly for you guys it seems like he isn't going to stop any time soon and it seems like neither the FIA have plans to investigate him and nor are Mercedes going to drop him as they seem to be supporting him.

The fact you think that it'll tarnish his reputation for standing up to things like this says more about you than it does him, in my opinion. You want him to be a coward and tow the party line just because it's more comfortable for you to watch. I'm glad he's realised his position and no longer worries about where his bread is buttered.

 

[JohnG7]

So I presume you also think Ali should've shut up and stuck to fighting?

I find it funny that he has to be one of the most out of touch black people. Yeah he's rich now but it's not like he was born a millionaire. Pretty sure he knew what it was like growing up

He refused to go to Nam and fight, some would call him a coward esp all others who did conscription/national service.

 

[Junglist]

He refused to go to Nam and fight, some would call him a coward esp all others who did conscription/national service.

Yes and why is it that he refused to go to Vietnam to fight?

“My conscience won't let me go shoot my brother, or some darker people, or some poor hungry people in the mud for big powerful America. And shoot them for what? They never called me n****r, they never lynched me, they didn't put no dogs on me, they didn't rob me of my nationality, rape and kill my mother and father... Shoot them for what? How do I got to go shoot them, poor little black people, little babies, children, and women? How can I shoot them poor people? Just take me to jail.”

Why should Ali have gone and risked his own life for the country that didn't even respect him or let him eat in restaurants after his Olympic victory? Would you?

Some may call him a coward. I'd call him anything but. He was a man of principle. The same people saying Lewis should shut up and race are probably the same people who would've said something similar to Ali.

(not that I think Ali and Hamilton are even in the same league)

 

[JohnG7]

I can see both sides but imagine everyone did the same in WW2 (I believe you got jail time for refusing and shunned locally).

 

[Junglist]

I can see both sides but imagine everyone did the same in WW2 (I believe you got jail time for refusing and shunned locally).

Was everyone getting treated the same as Ali? Imagine being bullied and then being told you have to go risk your life for the bully that wouldn't urinate on you if you were on fire. Where is the logic in that?

This guy literally won the olympic gold for the country and he then gets told he isn't allowed to eat in a restaurant. I wouldn't put my life on the line for those people either.

 

[JohnG7]

Many people get called names/bullied names for being, fat/ginger/specs/braces etc it has and always has happened and in nature to as one is always the punchbag in the litter.

I grew up in 70-90's and kids were tougher than today crybabies who rather say things on Facebook like " I hope your mum dies of cancer etc".

You trying to say blacks get same deal he got back then today?

 

[Junglist]

Many people get called names/bullied names for being, fat/ginger/specs/braces etc it has and always has happened and in nature to as one is always the punchbag in the litter.

I grew up in 70-90's and kids were tougher than today crybabies who rather say things on Facebook like " I hope your mum dies of cancer etc".

You trying to say blacks get same deal he got back then today?

When did I say anything about the deal blacks are getting treated today.

I'm just saying I don't blame him for not fighting the Vietnam because they weren't his fight. Many people may get called names but it wasn't just name calling he was subjected to. So I think he was right in telling America to go stuff itself if they want him to fight and kill others whilst not even sticking up for one of their own citizens

I love how it's justified by saying "well someone has to be the punching bag... now go fight for me"