Here it is the new BMW M2

SS-89 · 15 Oct 2015 at 12:43

Dis86 said:
Well look at the performance and power difference between the likes of a 335i and m3 and then the 235i and m2.

E46 330 231hp
E46 M3 342hp

E92 335i 305hp
E92 M3 420hp

F32 435i 305hp
F82 M4 431hp

E87 135i 305hp
E87 1M 340hp

F22 235i 326hp
F22 M2 370hp

Right...so in fact they are getting further apart is what you meant?

The 1M wasn't on paper a massive hike up over the 135i either. You do realise that on paper performance isn't the only differentiation between an M car and it's smaller siblings? You need to get behind the wheel of one to understand that they are appreciably different animals to drive (Speaking as a former E92 335i, E92 M3 and now M4 owner).

I think the M2 will be a fantastic car given the reception the 235i got, I can't get on with the looks of it but I don't doubt it's going to be a true M car bearing in mind the same criticisms were levied at the 1M.

pioneer2000 · 15 Oct 2015 at 12:49

Rossi~ said:
One things for sure, i'd have a V8 'stang over this any day.

Only thing I can think of that might be better on the Mustang is the noise...

Ayahuasca · 15 Oct 2015 at 12:58

ElliottJames already has one on order.

[TW]Fox · 15 Oct 2015 at 13:03

Skeeter said:
Well there is, they just called it the 1M.

Out of production for quite a few years now. I think the last one rolled off the line in 2012?

SS-89 · 15 Oct 2015 at 13:04

Ayahuasca said:
ElliottJames already has one on order.

Genuine lol

[TW]Fox · 15 Oct 2015 at 13:04

Dis86 said:
Well look at the performance and power difference between the likes of a 335i and m3 and then the 235i and m2.

The M2 does 0-60 in 4.3 seconds. Just how much quicker do you want a small coupe to be?!

pioneer2000 · 15 Oct 2015 at 13:24

Strange that 4.3 is not seen as epically fast nowadays.

[TW]Fox · 15 Oct 2015 at 13:40

The 'issue' is that ordinary BMW's are now very fast, not that M cars are slow.

An E34 M5 did 0-60 in just under 6 seconds. Now, a 530d does that.
An E46 M3 did 0-60 in 5 seconds - for 9 years now a 335i has been almost as fast

etc.

4.3 is astonishingly quick, the reason there isn't a huge gap is because the M235i is not slow either, why would it be? It's pretty much the same engine.

panthro · 15 Oct 2015 at 14:26

4.3 seconds to 60 mph is still extremely fast in my books.

gord · 15 Oct 2015 at 15:19

Hmm, faster than the zed's 4.8s. One of these smaller M options will have to be my next go to. Might have to wait till the roof folds down though..

SS-89 · 15 Oct 2015 at 15:22

gord said:
Hmm, faster than the zed's 4.8s. One of these smaller M options will have to be my next go to. Might have to wait till the roof folds down though..

Proper M's have a fixed roof

(waits for mrk

)

Havana_UK · 15 Oct 2015 at 15:43

Just been in to the dealer but haven't put a deposit down yet...not sure I can afford the car as it works out to £48K (to have the basically the same spec as my M135i).

Deliveries are scheduled to start from 16th April, with build dates (for UK cars) starting 16th (I think it was) March.

Cars can be specified and ordered as of yesterday, but it's not listed in their finance system yet.

sigma · 15 Oct 2015 at 16:38

What is going on with the front bumper?

pioneer2000 said:
Strange that 4.3 is not seen as epically fast nowadays.

Did time change or something? 4.3 to 60 is pretty fast!

Wonder what the 30-100 times are? That might highlight where the M cars start pulling away, if we're just using figures to compare them.

Havana_UK · 15 Oct 2015 at 16:45

The M cars start pulling away when you involve corners, and especially when you're on a race track with repeated hard braking.

Dis86 · 15 Oct 2015 at 16:56

SS-89 said:
E46 330 231hp
E46 M3 342hp

E92 335i 305hp
E92 M3 420hp

F32 435i 305hp
F82 M4 431hp

E87 135i 305hp
E87 1M 340hp

F22 235i 326hp
F22 M2 370hp

Right...so in fact they are getting further apart is what you meant?

The 1M wasn't on paper a massive hike up over the 135i either. You do realise that on paper performance isn't the only differentiation between an M car and it's smaller siblings? You need to get behind the wheel of one to understand that they are appreciably different animals to drive (Speaking as a former E92 335i, E92 M3 and now M4 owner).

I think the M2 will be a fantastic car given the reception the 235i got, I can't get on with the looks of it but I don't doubt it's going to be a true M car bearing in mind the same criticisms were levied at the 1M.

Please explain how 44hp difference between the 235i and the M2 and 35hp between the 135i and 1M is a bigger difference than 111hp between the E46's .

SS-89 · 15 Oct 2015 at 17:00

Dis86 said:
Please explain how 44hp difference between the 235i and the M2 and 35hp between the 135i and 1M is a bigger difference than 111hp between the E46's .

Not sure if you're being purposefully obtuse but the e46 is a 3 series so comparable to the e92 and f80/82 (which subsequently increased the gap with each generation). Hence why your point that they are getting closer is in fact not true as the 44bhp difference between the M2 and 235i is actually more than their predecessors which had only a 35bhp difference.

[TW]Fox · 15 Oct 2015 at 17:07

Dis86 said:
Please explain how 44hp difference between the 235i and the M2 and 35hp between the 135i and 1M is a bigger difference than 111hp between the E46's .

Please explain why 0-60 in 4.3 seconds is not fast enough for the M2.

Perhaps it should be as quick as a Veyron?

Dis86 · 15 Oct 2015 at 17:08

SS-89 said:
Not sure if you're being purposefully obtuse but the e46 is a 3 series so comparable to the e92 and f80/82...

Not sure if you're being purposefully ignorant or if there's something wrong with your grasp of English. I specifically gave examples of the 335i compared to an M3 vs the likes of a 235i and M2 stating that there's a larger power gap between the former vs the latter. You then publish figures that prove me right and say i'm wrong.
So we're comparing range topping standards Vs M's. The gap between a 550i and M5 for example is a gulf still at about 110 bhp so it's nothing to do with the size of the vehicle.

Dis86 · 15 Oct 2015 at 17:09

[TW]Fox;28687587 said:
Please explain why 0-60 in 4.3 seconds is not fast enough for the M2.

Perhaps it should be as quick as a Veyron?

I'm not saying it's not fast enough, I'm saying it's not fast enough in relation to the range topping none M car. Read my posts. Looking at 0-60 time of 4.5 for the M235i Vs 4.3 for the M2. It's not exactly a huge difference is it?

SS-89 · 15 Oct 2015 at 17:14

Dis86 said:
Not sure if you're being purposefully ignorant or if there's something wrong with your grasp of English. I specifically gave examples of the 335i compared to an M3 vs the likes of a 235i and M2 stating that there's a larger power gap between the former vs the latter. You then publish figures that prove me right and say i'm wrong.
So we're comparing range topping standards Vs M's. The gap between a 550i and M5 for example is a gulf still at about 110 bhp so it's nothing to do with the size of the vehicle.

Your earlier point was that the M brand is merging because of a small gap in bhp performance between the M2 and M235i right? As shown that simply isn't the case as the gap between the M2 and m235i is in fact larger than the previous generation 1M vs 135i and we all know the 1M was far superior and widely lauded car as being one of the best M cars of its generation.

Like I said bhp and paper stats only tell one side of the story, jump in an M car and it's a far different proposition, you keep quoting 0-60 times as the only difference between the cars but that's simply missing the point of an M car.