High-Def isnt all that good.

[Goatboy]

I was surprised to find movies such as the league of gentlemen: apocolypse was filmed in hidef as they said it was the cheapest option. So if a relatively low budget film such as this has been filmed in hidef how many others have been as well.

Films don't get filmed in high definition, they are filmed on film which has a resolution much higher than high definition.

 

[davetherave2]

excuse my ignorance and laugh at me if you want. I was still under the impression that movies were still filmed on celluloid but for some of the films that are being reissued in hidef format they are having to remaster the originals. Now I am not entirely sure how they do this but surely if these films were filmed originally in a resolution higher than the hi def standards we have at the moment why not release the technology earlier?

Now i obviously understand that the increase in quality means an increase in size for the film but how big is a post production hollywood movie if they are having to scale it down for the common man.

As for the LOG: Apocolypse they state in the extras on the dvd that they filmed in hidef as it was the most cost effective decision for them. Does this mean that they filmed it with equipment that is not on par with the big hollywood studios.


Just as a note I am still a little green when it comes to all things audio visual so I am still learning how it all works.

 

[BoomAM]

...Hope its helped

Im still willing to give the standard a chance.
I hooked it up to my new lappy and tryed a few videos that, some WMVs off MS's HD site, and they look better than the Starship Troopers thing ive got, but still not amazing.
Dont get me wrong, the first few seconds i was in awe, but upon closer inspection, the initial 'wow' factor disappeared.
Early days yet. I'll see how it all pans out.
Either way though, Res4 on this telly looks amazing.

 

[Goatboy]

if these films were filmed originally in a resolution higher than the hi def standards we have at the moment why not release the technology earlier?

The US and Japan have had high definition broadcasts since '98.

As for the LOG: Apocolypse they state in the extras on the dvd that they filmed in hidef as it was the most cost effective decision for them. Does this mean that they filmed it with equipment that is not on par with the big hollywood studios.

35mm is the standard for films so I have no idea what they did on that film though it wouldn't look as good in a cinema

 

[9designs2]

That is a faaar better screen than anything digital currently available. Playback for DVD should be as good as it gets. You could run that screen at any resolution you practically want, even 1920x1080 if you could find any content.

Try this for me. Install Intervideo WinDVD7 (the player i personally use as its really easy and performs excellently), change the display resolution to 720*576@100hz (or whatever the resolution of the content you are playing is), hook up your pc to a receiver and set windvd to send the bitstream to that for external decoding. Play a normal PAL DVD. It should look stunning.

How does the WinDVD7 compare with the "Theatertek using NVidia post processing and ffdshow to scale to the native resolution of the display" method, when I looked at the Theatertek stuff, I thought was to much hassle and "hacking" so didn't bother. Would like to try some of this HD stuff, both on my 19 VM Pro453, and my 42PW6, ok only SD panel, but source first and all that. Interested how the claims of PC PQ play back will compare with my DVD Player. (Linn Unidisk)

 

[Jez]

I dont know mate, as i havent tried it. I couldnt find a free copy of theatertek software anywhere, so i gave up I am sure other people here have used it but as i say i havent got a copy.

From all the other players ive always found the winDVD released to be way ahead of the others though, ive tried a fair few.

As far as quality goes, the VM is one hell of a better display than the plasma, but obviously its rather small

 

[Kappa]

also grain on 1080i can be quite aparent "WOTW 05" (quality of recorder note above) but detail and sharpness is the main differences with HD particulary visible on skintones.

Dont forget, WOTW has grain in the image purposefully put in by the cinematographer (how ghey).

 

[Goatboy]

when I looked at the Theatertek stuff, I thought was to much hassle and "hacking" so didn't bother.

It's very very easy - you just follow the htpcnews guide on setting up ffdshow and select it in Theatertek. You can tweak ffdshow as much or as little as you like, I personally only use it to scale the image to 720p

 

[soundwave]

35mm is the standard for films so I have no idea what they did on that film though it wouldn't look as good in a cinema

Now I'm not completley sure how this works but according to this month's What LCD & Plasma magazine they said that the BBC are starting to replace their normal broadcast camera's with Hi-Def ones because of Sales of show's to the US where they want everything now filmed in HD.

The most recent show's to be done like this were Bleak House & Rome so maybe for the LOG: Apocalypse film they used the same Camera equipment that the BBC have been buying?

I could be wrong but thats what I read.

Neil

 

[Mr Latte]

These comparisons if being done sitting at PC desk level or laptop is not what HDTV experience is about.

Were talking Pixels now not lines like traditional CRT and analouge broadcasts.
I can clearly see the lines now on a CRT tube which i didnt notice so much before simply because ive adjusted to how Tv now looks on my HDTV. People that moved from CRT to TFT monitors could also notice the same.

Remember with HDTVs and HD material the picture is all individual pixels and these will be visible particulary at close range, its this that can be very noticable on LCDs and some Plasma particulary within a few feet but eventually you become acustom to it.

I recommend viewing distance to be 4-5 times the screen height for best results with a minimium of at least 3 times to eliminate pixel structure. This isnt always possible on a projector but you take the good with the bad, the good being the actual cinematic scale and sometimes amazing detail for the bad being MPEG compression and that grain sometimes noticable particulary in blacks.

PS well done on an interesting thread...

 

[FrankJH]

Well I actually think there are definitely very good Hidef screens and bad ones and this makes just as much difference as the souce.

I previously had a Samsung 26" BDX ( I was one of the first to contribute to the huge thread elsewhere) and I found this set to be amazing, in particular watching Staw Wars Ep 3 and also Sin City to name but two recent and enjoyable films.

Anyway that set was nikked while I was at work and insurance finally coughed up with the money - even though I had to go to a particular store on high street to replace it. I duley did this hoping to get a Samsung, even if I had to put in a little extra to get a 32" during sales etc, however they didnt have any and couldnt get hold of any.

Instead I chose a 26" LG, witha hi def 1366*768 panel and seemingly the same kind of performance. At best its ok for a bedroom tv, and using consoles but with the same dvd player on the films above and thedetail just isnt there, i dont know how else to say it - the crispness and clarity, its not as bad as on my standard 42" rear pro tv, but its no where near as good as the Sammy - yet the panels are very similar spec so it must be the cheaper electronics or such like

 

[Shimmyhill]

I have to say that most downloaded HD content ive seen has been rubbish, even the demo's you get from divxx + winmv HD are just not very good. Yes they are better than broadcast tv but not much of a jumo from a quality dvd on a quality screen. Factor in a scaler and most scaled DVD's ive seen can beat the HD version (im talking ts files etc)

However, Digital Theatre is stunning. Its proper HD not upscaled nonsense. It is infact generally at a higher bitrate than BD will be. It blows DVD away. Ive seen it on a Barco CRT projecctor and it was simply stunning. Obv broadcast tv will not get anywhere near this for a long time as there simply is not enough bandwidth around. The only downside is that being tape based you lose the convinence of disc based media (chapters, resume etc) however this bodes well for HD-DVD + BD.

The only digital HD ive seen that has come close is the h.264 demo's that are on quicktime, downloaded stuff is very average at best and certinally not a good demo of what HD will be like when released on proper media.

So in a way im agreeing with the original post, what i point out is that its not 'real HD' that your seeing anyway - generally its poorly upscaled or simply not a proper HD stream from the original 35mm material.

 

[Mr Latte]

If you read some of the nfos from .ts files you will get the information regarding the file.

Example CSI 1080i is typically 17mbs, but i think as mentioned material does differ quite a lot in quality. All dependant on broadcaster/additional alterations to source recorded etc. I would say the better HD files ive downloaded are a match to what you can see demonstrated in some electrical stores showcasing ASTRA euro HD broadcasts and these can be full of MPEG compression too.

Technically HD is a much bigger improvement over DVD than DVD was over VideoCD/Laser-Disc/VHS so start saving if you want the best, the best will come not from broadcasts but the new disc formats HD DVD BLU-RAY both to be out within 6 months

 

[darreny]

tbh the picture from my old laser disc beats DVD

 

[Shimmyhill]

tbh the picture from my old laser disc beats DVD

You must have a terrible DVD player then ! While im a fan of laser disc even the best transfers do not come close to a good dvd.

Out of interest is anyone here going to get the $499 tosh HD-DVD player ?? or the $1000 sammy BD or $1800 pioneer BD player ??

 

[BoomAM]

Nope.
I intend to wait till:
A) They are a good price.
&
B) A wide selection of films out.

 

[Goatboy]

I think £300 isn't a bad price for the HD-DVD player at all but it's going to lack 1080p output and there needs to be enough films out to warrant a prucahse.

I'm hoping the PC drives will provide a much cheaper option.

 

[Shimmyhill]

I think £300 isn't a bad price for the HD-DVD player at all but it's going to lack 1080p output and there needs to be enough films out to warrant a prucahse.

I'm hoping the PC drives will provide a much cheaper option.

Yeah shame none of the early HD-DVD will have 1080p output, mind the only 1080p BD is $1800 so i think it will be a while before 1080p players are affordable. Still screen is only 720p so im gonna get the cheaper Tosh as its a total bargain (having paid nearly 3 times that much for a launch time dvd player)

 

[GordyR]

Well I actually think there are definitely very good Hidef screens and bad ones and this makes just as much difference as the souce.

I previously had a Samsung 26" BDX ( I was one of the first to contribute to the huge thread elsewhere) and I found this set to be amazing, in particular watching Staw Wars Ep 3 and also Sin City to name but two recent and enjoyable films.

Anyway that set was nikked while I was at work and insurance finally coughed up with the money - even though I had to go to a particular store on high street to replace it. I duley did this hoping to get a Samsung, even if I had to put in a little extra to get a 32" during sales etc, however they didnt have any and couldnt get hold of any.

Instead I chose a 26" LG, witha hi def 1366*768 panel and seemingly the same kind of performance. At best its ok for a bedroom tv, and using consoles but with the same dvd player on the films above and thedetail just isnt there, i dont know how else to say it - the crispness and clarity, its not as bad as on my standard 42" rear pro tv, but its no where near as good as the Sammy - yet the panels are very similar spec so it must be the cheaper electronics or such like

Frank - I have read quite a few threads recently where you have expressed your disapointment with the LG. This surprises me as I have the same TV as you and couldn't be happier. I have compared it side by side to the Samsung and my cousin has the Samsung also. Apart from non-digital transmissions I have found the LG to be as good and in some cases better than the Samsung. And of course for PC connectivity it is far better due to the 1:1 pixel mapping.

I am left wondering if perhaps you have some sort of set up issue that maybe I could help with? What DVD player are you using and connecting via what method? I have mine hooked up to an LG upscaling player and the picture on standard DVD's is out of this world. I would imagine a more expensive DVD player would only improve this further. I do recall having to tweak the contrast/brightness levels when I first got the TV however. If there is anything I can do to help let me know.

 

[FrankJH]

The Sammy DOES have 1:1 pixel mapping - I cant understand how you think otherwise.

I have both a Sony RDR-HXD710 Dvd/hdd recorder attached with Ixos scart cable to rgb connector (av1) which I believe upscales according to instructions

I also have a Samsung HD850 dvd player via hdmi which definitely upscales

Neither of these look excellent, its not the contrast or anything its the quality of the picture that doesnt look as crystal clear as it did on my Samsung before it was nicked.

also find it highly frustrating when I turn a source ( ie dvd player or Xbox 360) off the LG doesnt automatically go back to a standard tv channel - it just flashes up "No signal"

And as I have a seperate freeview stb, i would prefer to keep this on, but then as this is via scart the input selector locks to that even if I turn on a dvd player ( and I can also hear audio from stb when channel / av selector is on a different input) this again is via a good quality ixos cable.

Maybe this is a wrong impression, but I also could have sworn that internal upscaling of Samsung worked on normal tv stations, you could press the button on the remote and it would flick between alll the options and it seemingly made a difference to me - but this is not an option on the LG

I dont believe any of these are "setup" problems , but I could be mistaken